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  1. #1

    Stop the whining to solve the subscription losses

    Simple: this MMO industry went free to play between 2010 and 2012.

    There are only 3 subscription based MMO's left these days (WoW 8 m, EvE 500k, Rift 250k), all the rest needed to go free to play in order to have "any" players after 6 months.

    It started with AD&D in late 2009 and ended with SWTOR in late 2012.

    So NO in game "solution" is going to solve anything.

    We'll see where the lower sub limit stands for Blizzard to go free to play, but I doubt it will be anywhere before reaching 3 million subscribers.

    Besides, it is enough to introduce combo packs to new Blizzard games to pump up subscriptions anytime.

  2. #2
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    I've come to the conclusion the the modest ardent blizzard defenders are actually ridiculous blizzard haters. I didn't actually read what ben bos wrote but I can sum up that it basically amounts to it's not the developers fault, market forces, blah blah blah. Well the problem I have with that is that it paints the developers as helpless incompotents who simple can't do a damn thing and we will just have to accept the continued loss of subscribers.

    I don't accept that. I'm a true Blizzard fan and I happen to think they can turn things around. You Blizzard haters just really need to get a life.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    I don't accept that. I'm a true Blizzard fan and I happen to think they can turn things around. You Blizzard haters just really need to get a life.
    and here i thought benbos had actually posted something reasonable

    I had a decent sized post written up but the copy button ate it. I'm inclined to agree with OP, despite the fact that he's BenBos, that WoW's decline is tied to a shifting marketplace. That's not to say that Blizzard's design direction has no input on the success of their product, their design decisions may very well have turned people away from the game, but that shifting payment models in the MMO market take the lion's share of WoW's losses- So unless they alter their payment model it's not likely they're going to pick their numbers back up.

    Also I dunno if they can pull the annual pass card again. They're releasing two new games; Hearthstone in the short term, and Titan in the long term. What, are you going to get a pack of cards every month you subscribe?
    If you are particularly bold, you could use a Shiny Ditto. Do keep in mind though, this will infuriate your opponents due to Ditto's beauty. Please do not use Shiny Ditto. You have been warned.

  4. #4
    Where was that "MMO market is shrinking" before Blizzard announced the loses? We have more successful MMOs on the market that ever before. Most of them are stable, some of them are rising and others are shrinking.
    Everytime WoW loses subs, it's not Blizzards fault. Every time WoW gains subs, it's because it's the best game ever and everything else is shit.

  5. #5
    Asheron's Call you still pay :P

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by YouAreAllWrong View Post
    Where was that "MMO market is shrinking" before Blizzard announced the loses? We have more successful MMOs on the market that ever before. Most of them are stable, some of them are rising and others are shrinking.
    Everytime WoW loses subs, it's not Blizzards fault. Every time WoW gains subs, it's because it's the best game ever and everything else is shit.
    Haha, yes, this is the attitude of a lot of people.

  7. #7
    Hmm, I'm sure I read that BenBos is no longer playing WOW but here he is a posting about... I'm not quite sure what it is about... apart from other games are F2P. BenBos why should we take anything you say, about a game no longer deem good enough to play yourself, seriously?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by LilSaihah View Post
    and here i thought benbos had actually posted something reasonable

    I had a decent sized post written up but the copy button ate it. I'm inclined to agree with OP, despite the fact that he's BenBos, that WoW's decline is tied to a shifting marketplace. That's not to say that Blizzard's design direction has no input on the success of their product, their design decisions may very well have turned people away from the game, but that shifting payment models in the MMO market take the lion's share of WoW's losses- So unless they alter their payment model it's not likely they're going to pick their numbers back up.

    Also I dunno if they can pull the annual pass card again. They're releasing two new games; Hearthstone in the short term, and Titan in the long term. What, are you going to get a pack of cards every month you subscribe?
    I just wanted to illustrate how this (these) "new" business model(s) work in today's on line games, where free to play/pay is standard.

    Take for example other on line games (mostly non mmo's) : most are just a download away and every click on the download button is an added player to the player count. This started with Facebook games like Farmville(80 million players) and is now seen in games like WoT, LoL etc, letting them boost numbers to insane levels.

    Now I am NOT saying these games don't have a crazy activity, all I say is that they use different standards to count players and it certainly is not showing it in their balance sheets, or they would scream the $$ signs from the PR roofs.

    These days the dozens of free Farmville like games brought their owners almost to their knees and most of them need to grab to really dirty sideways like ... Poker to get decent revenue streams.

    ---

    So how do you battle "free to play" as a subscription based game ? Difficult, I guess. But I don't believe ANY content will do the tric. Even dirty pictures will not help much (just kidding).

    The answer is to be found in the marketing stuff and yes you already made an excellent point: combine free ccg packages with an active WoW sub is just one example. Or having a free access to Titan beta for a WoW sub etc...

    I think Blizzard has intrest in keeping WoW on a subscription basis, adding combo subs etc in later stages.

    You know investing in a membership to a paid club is always more rewarding, both for the club holders as for the members of the club.

    But yep, that's the challenge in what essentially has become a free to play on line world.

  9. #9
    Ben. We weren't whining, I at least was gloating and now feel misunderstood.

    MMO market will much more diverse, developers can be much more creative if everybody is looking at WoW and asking "What did they do wrong" rather than "What are they doing right?" and try to copy the retarded 12 year old gameplay of Everquest.

  10. #10
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    Simple: this MMO industry went free to play between 2010 and 2012.

    There are only 3 subscription based MMO's left these days (WoW 8 m, EvE 500k, Rift 250k), all the rest needed to go free to play in order to have "any" players after 6 months.
    Paying sub fees for ANY game is not normal in the current gaming market anymore... ur right to point out that very few MMOs charge subs now. I expect Blizzard to continue to charge all the time theyre making large profits. So they wont go F2P anytime soon...


    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    I don't accept that. I'm a true Blizzard fan and I happen to think they can turn things around. You Blizzard haters just really need to get a life.
    Its pure comedy to read how u r dismissing everyone who (u think) isnt a Blizzard fan and how all of their opinions r garbage, yet your OPINION is equally as baseless as those who ur ranting about...

    Some of us actually dont have an agenda, its a shame u cant see that.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    Its pure comedy to read how u r dismissing everyone who (u think) isnt a Blizzard fan and how all of their opinions r garbage, yet your OPINION is equally as baseless as those who ur ranting about...

    Some of us actually dont have an agenda, its a shame u cant see that.
    I think that was the intention, I take it you've not met BenBos before?

    Stop this here, please
    Last edited by Darsithis; 2013-05-13 at 01:36 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    There are only 3 subscription based MMO's left these days (WoW 8 m, EvE 500k, Rift 250k), all the rest needed to go free to play in order to have "any" players after 6 months.
    FFXI seems to be sustaining itself okay with its sub fees -- it just had a new expansion.

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  13. #13
    Mechagnome fooliuscaesar13's Avatar
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    As long as I'm enjoying myself and as long as I feel the game is worth 13/14/15 per month...I'll keep paying it. Until then...I don't care if there are 8m or 8k people playing the game. And besides, I spend $15 on my first round at the bar sometimes...it's not like this monthly fee is breaking my pocket.

  14. #14
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    I think that was the intention, I take it you've not met BenBos before?
    The comedy accusation was directed at Glorious Leader not Benbos

  15. #15
    free to play games suck. None of them have the production value needed to keep players interrested and most of them, like neverwinter online is way to greedy on their shitty cash shops.

    sub games > f2p any day of the week.

    Wow is to old. Thats why. Not because its sub based

  16. #16
    I expecting the day, where no chinese players are left so blizzard has to find another excuse for the subscription losses....

    I mean, in NA/EU many realms are near dead and the major loss is happened by chinese players? Seriously?

    Blizzard made some mistakes. WoW feels like Diablo playstyle. All content seen very fast because of multiple difficulty levels. It's not interesting enough.
    Last edited by Thyr; 2013-05-13 at 12:44 PM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    The comedy accusation was directed at Glorious Leader not Benbos
    Yeah I know and I was saying that I think that was his intention but I guess we'll have to wait for him to clear up his meaning for us.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Thyr View Post
    I expecting the day, where no chinese players are left so blizzard has to find another excuse for the subscription losses....

    I mean, in NA/EU many realms are near dead and the major loss is happened by chinese players? Seriously?

    Blizzard made some mistakes. WoW feels like Diablo playstyle. All content seen very fast because of multiple difficulty levels. It's not interesting enough.
    Asia had server merges as early as 2010 for China. Recently they had huge server mergers in Korean too.

    Besides Kotick stated at the press conference they got lots of competition of locally asian complete FREE to play games these days.

    As the last revenue showed the online MMO part still brought in masses of money, it shows the western part must be still significant.

    Now for the challenging question ? Who says free to play is the future after people will see how little they'll get from it ... in the long run ???

  19. #19
    Unless one of the F2P games suddenly has a spike in players then the whole argument that people left becuase of F2P games is absurd. If those hadn't sucked from the beginning they wouldn't be F2P. The only people who might know whey there was a 1.3MM sub loss is the people at Blizzard and the rest of you should just go do something else with your free time.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    free to play games suck. None of them have the production value needed to keep players interrested and most of them, like neverwinter online is way to greedy on their shitty cash shops.

    sub games > f2p any day of the week.
    Blanket statements...

    F2P is just a different model than subscription. There are bad F2P games just as there are great ones, just as there are great and bad subscription games.
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