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  1. #1
    Bloodsail Admiral Well's Avatar
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    Are resto druids hindered by MWs?

    ...as in us being hindered in meters by disc priests/hpalas. My 10man guild has me, a rshaman and a rdruid for healing. I am always 1st in meters, with immense differences (sometimes even 100millions of healing from the second, never ooming), our shaman is always second, and our druid always 3rd and behind. Am I "sniping" in a way his healing done? http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/8629/ for some reference.

    I am also bothered, because he is much older than me in the guild, thus has an enormous amount of DKP, and gets everything before me. Even when he had the thunderforged chest from the Council, and I was healing with Vial of Ichorous Blood (463ilvl) I was far far ahead. Is it just that he is bad? If so, what can I do or what should I NOT do?

    He has improved the last 2 days quite heavily, I have to admit, but still... I feel uncredited in some way. I of course understand that it is a grp effort, but even when our pala was with us, and pre-nerf, me and the pala 2-healing tot (even when I had 463 trinketS) felt the same even when he was there.

    Lastly, if anyone can check and point some mistakes I am doing, I would be very grateful


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  2. #2
    Resto druids are dead last in the healers' food-chain. ALL other healers snipe their hps.

  3. #3
    Bloodsail Admiral Well's Avatar
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    So, we just did jin hc, and I am 75mil ahead of him, and 40-50 from the shammy. I really don't feel that I am trying to snipe or anything, since it was the 1st time we did it. Any explanation? Is it just the class or he is bad too?


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  4. #4
    Warchief DirewolfX's Avatar
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    I feel like monks are pretty solid on Jin'rokh heroic, especially without a disc priest/holy paladin shielding everyone before the storm. Our cooldowns line up perfectly for the storm (TFT+Chi Brew every storm and Revival on 1+3 plus we can Diffuse Magic and basically ignore the mechanics for 6 seconds to focus on heals).

  5. #5
    Bloodsail Admiral Well's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirewolfX View Post
    I feel like monks are pretty solid on Jin'rokh heroic, especially without a disc priest/holy paladin shielding everyone before the storm. Our cooldowns line up perfectly for the storm (TFT+Chi Brew every storm and Revival on 1+3 plus we can Diffuse Magic and basically ignore the mechanics for 6 seconds to focus on heals).
    I made use of all of these, but... this happens on EVERY fight we do. He is just always so behind. We also have a moonkin who also has some more DKP than me and got the boots from durumu (sadface: I still have LFR 476 ones).


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  6. #6
    You mean by sniping his hots with uplift yeh? From what I understand MW are superior atm and quite possibly. I run with a disc AND a holy pala and FML is all I have to say lol. I'd ask our disc to do more atoning but he's our main healer and pally is the RL. If I was running with a druid (which I also played main) I'd take a more relaxed style - lots of palas/discs/shamans etc dont see other healers hot so they heal up ofc. If you hang on a bit and see if he's actually doing his job or slacking - sounds mean I know!! I'd hang on with the uplifts for when needed and fistweave until needed (is what am trying to do now). Hope it's helpful

  7. #7
    There's not a single fight where a resto druid will be better than a MW. I say this with considerable sadness, as my druid was my main from 2005 up until September 2012, when I quickly realized that MW mechanics will always outperform a resto druid.
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  8. #8
    Warchief DirewolfX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Well View Post
    I made use of all of these, but... this happens on EVERY fight we do. He is just always so behind. We also have a moonkin who also has some more DKP than me and got the boots from durumu (sadface: I still have LFR 476 ones).
    What's 'so behind?' Druids are pretty bad right now, but if he's more than 10% behind something is wrong. Also, how is his tank healing? Healing during burst phases? It's pretty hard to judge healers from the meters, but if you take a look at graphs in World of Logs, look for the spikes. If his healing didn't spike with everyone else's, something is wrong.

  9. #9
    High Overlord D-Balthalzar's Avatar
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    I am also bothered, because he is much older than me in the guild, thus has an enormous amount of DKP, and gets everything before me.
    Surprised no-ones commented on this to be honest, lol.

    He could be the worst player in the world and it still wouldn't entitle you to loot anymore than he is. The very nature of DKP means it rewards loyal players, not good ones. You say you understand that raiding is a group mechanic, but your entire post sounds conceited and egotistical; raiding isn't about you, or what loot you want/think you deserve, it's about people collaborating to achieve their goals. He's obviously attended far more raids than you have/been a loyal member longer, thus enabling the guild to raid, thus he isn't 'stealing' your loot, like your whole post implies he's doing.

    And your question reeks of being unaware to the plight of the raid composition; Druids suck right now. They're so dead last that Prot Paladins are out healing them. And nearly just as bad are Shamans. So no, with no disrespect, it isn't that you have amazing skillz and deserve all the loot before them. It's because their speccs are in a bad way, and in the future if I was you, I'd research your healing composition to discover how you can improve your own play style to adjust to the players around you.

  10. #10
    Bloodsail Admiral Well's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Balthalzar View Post
    *snip*
    If my post is in any way egoistical or anything related to that, yours is so much more. Try looking above and out of stereotypes. I will pass the personal insults as usual. Also, venting once in a while is not bad.

    Next time trying answering the question of the thread. You are the only one who does not. I won't answer to anything not related to the topic anymore.
    Last edited by Well; 2013-05-09 at 08:04 PM.


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  11. #11
    If you want to know if you are sniping his heals then check the overhealing. If he is super high on overhealing then yes you are sniping his heals.

    Looked at the logs a bit. RDruid is my main so I feel ok saying this. First, he is casting nourish WAY too much. Tell him to stop and that every time he casts it a puppy dies. Second, check his glyphs. He seems to use glyph of rejuv, probably because he uses Nourish, and should NOT be. Finally, you out gear him by at least 6 ilvls man... Give the guy a break.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Thedave View Post
    There's not a single fight where a resto druid will be better than a MW. I say this with considerable sadness, as my druid was my main from 2005 up until September 2012, when I quickly realized that MW mechanics will always outperform a resto druid.
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=12786&e=13197

    ... My overhealing: 66.7% ...

    I hate absorb classes, and overhealing farm content. ;_;

    Ignore the fact she outgears me by 8-9~ item levels and has BiS trinkets and a 535 weapon whereas I'm stuck with 517/502!
    Last edited by Treseme; 2013-05-09 at 08:05 PM.

  13. #13
    High Overlord D-Balthalzar's Avatar
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    Next time trying answering the question of the thread. You are the only one who does not. I won't answer to anything not related to the topic anymore.
    *cough*

    And your question reeks of being unaware to the plight of the raid composition; Druids suck right now. They're so dead last that Prot Paladins are out healing them. And nearly just as bad are Shamans. So no, with no disrespect, it isn't that you have amazing skillz and deserve all the loot before them. It's because their speccs are in a bad way, and in the future if I was you, I'd research your healing composition to discover how you can improve your own play style to adjust to the players around you.
    It's not a personal attack. You've provided information, and I merely stated my observation. Your whole post revolves around loot, and you even bring dps into the equation, worrying that a moonkin will get boots before you. I was merely pointing out that you are no more deserving of loot than any of your raid members, and I followed through with the state of healing. Resto Druids are exceedingly bad right now, with every other healer providing what they provide and more.

  14. #14
    Bloodsail Admiral Well's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryzzen View Post
    If you want to know if you are sniping his heals then check the overhealing. If he is super high on overhealing then yes you are sniping his heals.

    Looked at the logs a bit. RDruid is my main so I feel ok saying this. First, he is casting nourish WAY too much. Tell him to stop and that every time he casts it a puppy dies. Second, check his glyphs. He seems to use glyph of rejuv, probably because he uses Nourish, and should NOT be. Finally, you out gear him by at least 6 ilvls man... Give the guy a break.
    I literally just got the items in our last run (2 tier items, the belt from valor AND amulet. It was a huge boost of 6 ilvls for me last run). I didn't overgear him up until now.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-09 at 08:14 PM ----------

    I also noticed that he is casting nourish a lot (even while during the fights), and I know that he shouldn't even have it on his bars.
    Last edited by Well; 2013-05-09 at 08:26 PM.


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  15. #15
    I look at the logs and think druid healer is just not paying attention, in the attempts were your are right and you're way ahead of him, its cause his active time is below 70%. When he and you are both 99% active time like you two should be he is within an expected difference of you. I would wonder if he is just checking out mentally or distracted by something else. I use to raid with a guy that would watch TV while tanking and he'd get us killed cause of it. Something like that.

  16. #16
    Bloodsail Admiral Well's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Balthalzar View Post
    It's not a personal attack. You've provided information, and I merely stated my observation. Your whole post revolves around loot, and you even bring dps into the equation, worrying that a moonkin will get boots before you. I was merely pointing out that you are no more deserving of loot than any of your raid members, and I followed through with the state of healing. Resto Druids are exceedingly bad right now, with every other healer providing what they provide and more.
    Last time I answer to an off-topic comment (you keep being off-topic for yet another full post). I am interested in knowing if it's his fault that he is so behind in healing since ever and always, or I am through some way sniping his heals and looking good on meters. I DO want to be 1st and best, but not at the expense of my raid group.

    As as I said: venting every now and then is not a bad thing. Limit yourself to the topic. This is the last time I will say it.


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  17. #17
    High Overlord D-Balthalzar's Avatar
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    Last time I answer to an off-topic comment (you keep being off-topic for yet another full post). I am interested in knowing if it's his fault that he is so behind in healing since ever and always, or I am through some way sniping his heals and looking good on meters. I DO want to be 1st and best, but not at the expense of my raid group.

    As as I said: venting every now and then is not a bad thing. Limit yourself to the topic. This is the last time I will say it.
    I have been on-topic in both of my posts, you're just being ridiculously hyperbolic and over defensive. And like I said in both of my previous posts, Druids are crap right now. Yes, you probably are sniping his heals but you can't help it; both druid and shaman healing mechanics have not aged well with the progression of the game. They lack the healing capability of Paladins/Priest/Monks, and Shamans are only just viable because of their CDs. In this state, you will always out heal the druid unless of some other contextual factor. It doesn't matter if he's playing the best he possibly can be (which, admittedly, he's not. He's casting Nourish and he has far too much healing from Rejuvenation. It looks like he isn't casting Wild Growth enough and he's barely popping Tranquility), you will still out heal him.

    And I don't see why you're venting over loot, lol. Not only do you now over gear him, but Healers are the least dependent role on gear. I genuinely don't give a fuck about my Priests gear when I'm raiding (except maybe trinkets. I have an odd, unhealthy obsession about trinkets). As you yourself pointed out, ToT can be healed in gear that is far below the ilevel of 500.

    Edit:

    Definitely not casting Wild Growth enough since he's specced in SoTF. On my druid, with that talent, I cast WG on CD and my healing usually results in an even split between WG/Reju.
    Last edited by D-Balthalzar; 2013-05-09 at 08:39 PM.

  18. #18
    My guild runs the exact same comp and we have a similar dynamic where it's me (Resto Druid) and the Mistweaver at the top with the Shaman a chunk below us so it's definitely not just a druid thing. I started tracking Renewing Mist awhile ago (the same way I used to track PW:S in Wrath) -- I probably don't pay enough attention to it, but it is helpful to avoid stomping on each other's heals a bit.


    Looking at logs:

    * Harmony and Lifebloom and uptime are good.

    * He shouldn't be using Nourish at all and thus shouldn't be using Glyph of Rejuv. One is better off removing Nourish from their bar than using it as a filler. I removed it from my bar pretty early in the expansion and don't miss it. Either someone needs a Regrowth or they just don't need a direct, cast time heal from a druid.

    * Swiftmend and Wild Growth usage are absurdly low, especially for running Soul of the Forest. They should both be used closed to on CD all the time. If he's running 4 piece T14 they should be paired together nearly every time. If he's not, then roughly every other Swiftmend should be paired with Wild Growth (with 2 non-SotF Wild Growths in between). But the most important thing is to use them often, they're more powerful and efficient spells than Rejuv. I've got him casting Swiftmend once every 45 secs on Iron Qon for a spell with a 12 or 15 sec CD.

    * He should be using Glyph of Wild Growth as well; It's a very rare fight where you don't have 6 people within 30 yards of a target even in 10 man.

    * In both Iron Qon and Twin Consorts he only Tranqs once (10min fights). He should know the damage profile of fights and try to use them close to the maximum amount of times. Even if the CD isn't strictly needed it will save him and others mana. Iron Qon in particular there should definitely one be used during Fire phase and one during the Fist Smash phase -- then depending on your DPS 1-2 in between -- you just have to make sure it will be up when you need it.

    * Armory gear is moonkin so I won't make any comments regarding it.

  19. #19
    Eek please don't pick on silly things here! I never got the impression that OP was actually intending to sound conceited. Any real human can understand the slight resentment (hell even feel guilty for it!) at out doing a fellow member and getting shit all little. Some play for the loot others for the prog we can't really judge off our own pedestal it's not the way it works. Some great answers here - just start logging and looking. Regardless of the outcome or situation pure curiosity would drive me to wanna know what's REALLY going on. When I was on my shaman 10m ToT I was bottom by miles and it made me feel like shit but I knew I worked my ass off to compete but I just never fit the glove so to say. I've also this bad habit of healing my titties off and not really giving the others healers an opportunity to have their heart in their throat and sweat a little. Moment I backed off voila they came to life

  20. #20
    This honestly is not a thread for the Monk subforum. The whole point of this thread is "why is the Druid so low" not anything about the Monk. While some of us are pretty familiar with all healing specs, you really ought to ask the Druids.

    Edit: Totally didn't realize this was 10 man. After actually looking at the logs, he's nowhere near as far behind as you suggest (hundreds of millions, really?), in fact the difference is exactly what you'd expect between a Druid and a Monk who can keep ReM on almost the entire raid all the time. I have to agree that it sounds like you're just mad about loot.
    Last edited by Totaltotemic; 2013-05-09 at 10:41 PM.

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