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  1. #1
    Deleted

    Unerring Vision - Disc

    Hello, been playing Shadow as PvE this patch and mainly Disc PvP but had to fill in a bit as Disc in PvE some fights. I have the Unerring Vision of Lei Shen which completely changed my Shadow spec and stat priority. I was trying out the trinket as disc and noticed I had quite a few procs but unlike Shadow(Where I refresh dots) I was unsure what my go to spell would be when it procs as its only a 4 second window and I can't hold off on certain spells waiting for a proc. Also I've been using a crit build as Disc for PvE, does crit as Disc have less importance with this trinket? I noticed my healing was lower than usual with this, I had replaced the Tsulong?(spirit + int proc) one and I plan on using the Shado Pan Assault trinket as my second healing trinket but don't want my healing to suffer too much. I was thinking of maybe stacking spirit and going for the haste > mastery > crit build, mana isn't much of an issue and I usually finish fights with quite a bit of mana so the haste would provide a bit more healing. Any opinions, suggestions or advice is greatly appreciated, thank you

  2. #2
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    I'm also disc and yesterday I received the same trinket. Haven't used it in raids yet, but on a dummy fight the uptime was only 5%. So it doesn't really look good, unless you're lucky and get the proc when a lot of people are low health and can use a big heal like cascade or halo.

    I don't know about your playstyle as disc, but if you're mainly spamming atonement like me, crit is the way to go. This trinket does diminish the value of crit quite a bit, but I still think crit remains the strongest stat, even with it. Remember, crit gives you free healing and damage, while mastery only offers free healing and haste goes at the expense of mana. If you're not having any mana issues you're doing things wrong and should ditch some spirit. Currently I'm running with 7k spirit and that feels just about right; your aim is to always be oom exactly at the end of the fight.

    Use this trinket until you can get the trinkets from Dark Animus (bis), Megaera (second bis) or even Horridon's last gasp for mana-heavy fights.

  3. #3
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    To start with I'd like to mention that I don't think the trinket is worth using, I don't really favor rng trinkets for healing in general, and something with as little uptime as uvls seems quite useless to me.

    That being said, the best way to use the trinket is probably to fit in a PoH+cascade (if you don't need it elsewhere), that'd function almost as a spirit shell, another option would be superpowered PW:S assuming that they'd get consumed. If the trinket is enough to change your priority really depends on how you value crit vs mastery, for pure output they are already incredibly close so that could very well be enough to push mastery ahead but crit does have the added benefit of being all aegis healing+adding dps. I don't really see why you'd go haste over crit/mastery though, factoring in our reliance on cooldowns and the extra spirit required to make use of it haste is less output than haste/crit, doubt one rppm trinket is enough to change that. Use less spirit and a crit/mastery priority instead.

  4. #4
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    I fail to see how I am doing something wrong simply because I'm not oom at the end of a fight, I often finish first or close second for healing (Albeit not hard as disc this patch). Solace(or mindbender) on cooldown throughout the fight along with timing rapture means I'm swimming in mana (Not sure if you do that in your playstyle). I generally atonement to 5 stacks and pop AA + SS according to boss mechanics, atonement during downtime but always tracking rapture and pom etc and keeping track of boss abilities. I was holding off Cascade and using it with the proc which was pretty nice, the uptime varied crazy in fights, some fights I had 1 proc others I had 5+. I read the proc rate is increased by haste but not entriely sure if that would warrant going for a haste build.

  5. #5
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    Rather simple, if you're not oom, you should have used more expensive healing spells during combat or should have done the fight with less spirit. If you still have 50k mana left at the end, it's obviously a waste. Being number 1 on the healing meter or having good mana regen has nothing to do with that. In fact, I recommend to drop enough spirit to make rapture mana negative. That way you're forced to stop wasting your time spamming bubbles an can actually contribute to the raid's dps, which is the thing disc atm excels at.

  6. #6
    I got this trinket as well. While running it alongside a crit build, it doesn't proc enough. Sure you may be able to get a smite or 1 PoH but the problem I found is that I was delaying casting Cascade, even then Cascade does NOT snapshot stats like DoTs do and I made sure of it. I would go for heroic horridon and heroic tsulong. This will enable you to reforge out of a good amount of spirit while have 2 static int trinkets. Which is what healers want.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Saeba View Post
    Rather simple, if you're not oom, you should have used more expensive healing spells during combat or should have done the fight with less spirit. If you still have 50k mana left at the end, it's obviously a waste. Being number 1 on the healing meter or having good mana regen has nothing to do with that. In fact, I recommend to drop enough spirit to make rapture mana negative. That way you're forced to stop wasting your time spamming bubbles an can actually contribute to the raid's dps, which is the thing disc atm excels at.
    There is nothing wrong with not being oom itself. Its just an indicator that you could drop some regen if it happens frequently.
    In fact if you are (almost) oom at the end of the fight and there were no complications, then you did something wrong.
    Managing your mana 'perfectly' is suboptimal in real encounters, as it implies that you have no reserve for when anyone doesn't play perfectly - which is pure fiction.

  8. #8
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    When things go south, it's usually a wipe anyway. If you have so much spirit that you're even thinking about getting more haste, I don't see why you would cling to it. I'm often oom about 30 secs before finishing a fight, but that doesn't matter if my mindbender comes off cd soon again. I actually try to be oom early enough to get full benefit in certain situations (if I expect a fight to last 6.5 mins instead of 7 mins, I aim to be oom around the 6 mins mark for instance).

  9. #9
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    I wouldn't see the point in purposely ooming yourself just to get more mana back, to basically get to the same point you were before dumping mana.

    Unless if there's constant heavy damage going on, (which is rare in this tier), I wouldn't see the point in dumping your mana for no reason. Honestly aiming to be oom is a bad thing, as long as no1 dies and you have enough mana (obviously not too much, sort reforges then/switch gemming) to fix possible fuck ups you're doing it right.

  10. #10
    Deleted
    The purpose is better efficiency (jade spirit) and higher output, of course. Also, you have to keep in mind that you're not alone, but have 1 or 2 other healers besides you. If all healers end a fight with 50k mana, that would be a waste of 100 or even 150k. Aiming to go oom is a thing a healer should naturally do, just like blowing cooldowns before it's too late and the fight is over. Even if there's no real 'need' for it.

  11. #11
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    I don't see why ooming yourself should reach more efficiency, ending the fight with 50k is fine tbh, gives you some room.
    A healer's job is not to score the highest possible numbers, eg spam PW:S as disc, which will dump your mana, while you can get the same results with more efficient spells (eg atonement).

    And yeah, dropping some regen for throughput is natural, but adjusting your playstyle during a fight to dump some mana if there's no real need as you say seems just pointless.

  12. #12
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    i dont see how aiming to be oom is a good thing? especially if you aim to be oom 30secs before a fight finishes. if you arent close to being oom, do you use more PW:S or flash heals to drain your mana so it make you feel like you accomplished more?

    if theres nothing more to heal, then theres nothing more to spend mana on. it doesnt make people "bad players" if they end a fight with some mana left

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Saeba View Post
    When things go south, it's usually a wipe anyway.
    When planing to be oven even if nothing goes south and geared towards atonement only as you seem to be (from what you post in the other thread about atonement), then sure, since you have no reserves something going wrong means a wipe, which is why you should not make plans like that. It also explains why you would need 3 healers where 2 should be enough, since those would have to pick up the slack for when anything doesn't go perfectly.
    I wonder if that is loosing your raid damage for overheal (which does not necessarily show up as your overheal in the logs even though it is caused by your presence and healing style)? I'm not into picking through logs, but from your tales, I suppose it just might.

  14. #14
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    I run with this trinket, and have been for 3 resets, i track the proc with a weakaura and i run with heavy mastery reforges. When it procs i use pws mostly. If you wanna use cascade you need to push it rigth away when it procs, cause teh air time of cascade s kinda high, and if the proc drops off, the 100% crit drops of as well:P

  15. #15
    Stood in the Fire espoire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saeba View Post
    Rather simple, if you're not oom, you should have used more expensive healing spells during combat or should have done the fight with less spirit. If you still have 50k mana left at the end, it's obviously a waste. Being number 1 on the healing meter or having good mana regen has nothing to do with that. In fact, I recommend to drop enough spirit to make rapture mana negative. That way you're forced to stop wasting your time spamming bubbles an can actually contribute to the raid's dps, which is the thing disc atm excels at.
    50k is OOM as far as I'm concerned. A shadowfiend restores 72k; anything less than that justs indicate that fight length lined up in a such a way that you recently cast SF.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-09 at 03:10 AM ----------

    How does the proc interplay with Halo? Does it need to be pp at time of cast, or up when it actually reaches someone?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by espoire View Post
    How does the proc interplay with Halo? Does it need to be pp at time of cast, or up when it actually reaches someone?
    You need to have proc up when it reaches the target.

  17. #17
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    Gottan, have you played around with timing divine star with the UVLS proc? in optimal situations i can imagine it being OP

  18. #18
    Why would a healer want a trinket with such a terrible uptime? Sure it's a nice throughput increase when it procs, but you get 2-3 spells off at most and there's absolutely no guarantee that it will be useful.

    The only reason to run this trinket is for the static intellect.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalmah View Post
    Why would a healer want a trinket with such a terrible uptime? Sure it's a nice throughput increase when it procs, but you get 2-3 spells off at most and there's absolutely no guarantee that it will be useful.

    The only reason to run this trinket is for the static intellect.
    In my oppinion for disc, static int trinkets are the only way to go this tier, there are not many int trinkets with output procs though and if i would have to choose among them i would choose Unerring + Chalice. I havent yet gotten ahold of the horridon trinket though, when i do i'm gonna run with that + chalice and reforge away some more spirit.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-09 at 03:14 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by BarryManaLow View Post
    Gottan, have you played around with timing divine star with the UVLS proc? in optimal situations i can imagine it being OP
    Yepp, got a few awesome procs on mageara =D Divine star with a stacked raid is awesome when unerring procs =)

  20. #20
    I personally use this trinket. it was actually going to go to DE but I picked it up for disc. it might have about 5% uptime and I have had some fights where it was close to 9%. it is a bit of rng. but then again so is the chalice. I track this trinket with weak auras to maximize its performance. some would say. well why dont you get horridons last grasp. well with the legendary meta. you honestly dont need very much spirit when maximizing it. all about spell priority.

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