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  1. #1

    Survival Hunter NOT using ANY Level 90 Talent

    Hey all just looking for a little advice about one of my raiders.

    We are currently 8/13 HM and run a 10 Man raid. I have a Hunter who plays excellent and is always in the 80th - 90th percentile on fights, and also has multiple high parsing ranks. I never thought to scan through his rotation until I found out that he does not use ANY of his level 90 talents.

    Playing Survival, he says that Glaive Toss will be a DPS Loss than if he does not use it.

    I have never thought to question what he does because he plays at a high level, however, to me it seems like it would be a DPS loss to not use a 90 talent.

    Simulations come out about 4000-5000 DPS higher, however he disputes the accuracy of them for that.


    So is he sacrificing higher DPS by not using this talent? On single target / and on AOE fights (Barrage?)

    I believe Glaive Toss to be the highest DPET for Hunters.

    He says that he would have to move another primary button off of his keybinds to use it and does not want to do it.

    If somebody could post a fairly detailed reasoning behind an argument for or against using a level 90 talent, it would be appreciated. He is the type that needs a detailed and logical explanation, not just a "because its a level 90 talent" type response. He does like to theorycraft which made me very surprised that he is using NO level 90 talent.

    Thank you

  2. #2
    Tell him to compare the DPCT (damage per cast time, forgive a poor priest) and DPE (damage per energy) of glaive toss and arcane shot. Then tell him to give one proper reason why he wouldn't use glaive toss over arcane shot when that's possible. That's very logical and should make it very obvious that it's worth using, not that I think he knows jack about theorycrafting if he can't come to this conclusion himself.

  3. #3
    Even if he would argue that Powershot or Barrage waste time, and thus are useless (which is of course wrong, but at least makes sense) Glaive Toss is pretty much overpowered Arcane Shot. Bind one key to AS and GT with shift press or something and there is no freaking room for a dps loss.

  4. #4
    It's amazing isn't it, I mean you're obviously doing quite well with 8 HC's under your belt and that requires everyone in the raid to know what they are doing aswell as knowing their class 100% but then you find out someone isn't using 1 of their "main" abilities!

    Make's me wanna go and check out everyone in our raid team even though we are only 5/13hc!

    But yeah, what cookie said basically......there's no reason at all to not use Glaive Toss/Barrage (Would love to see his damage on Tortos HC without barrage!<<<Even if you kite the bats, MD+Barrage=win there)

  5. #5
    Glaive Toss does about 33% more damage than an Arcane Shot and costs 5 less focus. I don't see why you wouldn't use it.
    Why didn't he try to compare the damage in-game?
    Bovan.9481
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  6. #6
    with most of the bosses going into a soft enrage kind of mechanic way before the beserk, a lot of the low% wipes get pushed towards not enough healing rather than hitting the soft enrage(at least that is what i've been noticing). dps gets away with slacking a bit because of this.. better tell him to step up his game though, it will probably save you a few wipes

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Blaizze View Post

    He says that he would have to move another primary button off of his keybinds to use it and does not want to do it.
    Kind of explains it already; doesn't want to deal with button bloat? (not a valid excuse..) If he really needs an explanation tell him it does more damage than arcane shot. Arcane shot costs one global; glaive toss costs one global. Assuming he's using every other rotation/priority system CD but glaive toss, then every 15s when he could be doing more damage in that global with a glaive toss; he's probably arcane shotting, which does less damage.

  8. #8
    It does more damage than arcane shot and costs less focus. Period. There shouldn't need to be a better reason than that to use it every time it's off cooldown. Not to mention it can hit other targets as well.

  9. #9
    For my Hunter unbuffed, Arcane Shot does about 35k on a hit whereas Glaive Toss does 61k per use against a single target.

    Glaive Toss also costs less Focus.

    Glaive Toss is pretty much strictly better than Arcane Shot - it just doesn't get a boost from Survival Hunter Mastery and has a slightly longer delay before damage occurs compared to Arcane Shot which is almost never an issue. It's just that it has a 15 second cooldown whereas Arcane Shot has no cooldown.

    He should add a keybind for it.

    My keybinds: Black Arrow, Explosive Shot, Cobra Shot, Arcane Shot, Kill Shot, Glaive Toss, Multishot, Silencing Shot, A Murder of Crows, Fervor, Serpent Sting, Misdirection. That's a total of 12 "main" keybinds which I have bound to my mouse buttons since I use a gaming mouse with side buttons. I also have a keyboard keybind for Deterrence, Potion, Feign Death, Stampede, Disengage, and Readiness. I have Rapid Fire just macro'd into my Cobra Shot, since it's not a very strong cooldown for me as Survival.

    If he uses Thrill of the Hunt instead of Fervor there isn't much difference in DPS overall (just requires good attention to make sure you don't end up full on focus with nothing that can spend it) and would have one less button (as Thrill of the Hunt is passive, unlike Fervor and Dire Beast).

  10. #10
    Chances are he used Glaive Toss once, saw a 35k hit, used arcane, saw a 40k hit and said, "Why would I use glaive?"

    The answer is because you didn't see the second 35k hit covered up by the first. Glaive hits twice.

  11. #11
    Saying as a hunter killed 8 HC...He MUST use lwl 90 talents.People allready told the reasons.But there are more reasons.For example on Heroic Magaera glaive toss will damage also adds between heads.On lei shen that balls will take glaive damage when used on lei shen in p2 + p3.Iron qon in last phase all bosses will take glaive toss damage.In durumu that adds comes when dispelled will take damage if they are between boss and player.(Pro hunter will possision himself for this ).And more damage for also Ice walls.In Ji-Kun if he jumps to nests its perfect aoe there. In my opinion Glaive Toss is best hunter skill atm.About lwl 90 skills Barrage is superior too.If a hunter is NOT using Barrage in Horridon,Council of Elders,Tortos .he is just a huntard.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Blaizze View Post
    Hey all just looking for a little advice about one of my raiders.

    We are currently 8/13 HM and run a 10 Man raid. I have a Hunter who plays excellent and is always in the 80th - 90th percentile on fights, and also has multiple high parsing ranks. I never thought to scan through his rotation until I found out that he does not use ANY of his level 90 talents.

    Playing Survival, he says that Glaive Toss will be a DPS Loss than if he does not use it.

    I have never thought to question what he does because he plays at a high level, however, to me it seems like it would be a DPS loss to not use a 90 talent.

    Simulations come out about 4000-5000 DPS higher, however he disputes the accuracy of them for that.


    So is he sacrificing higher DPS by not using this talent? On single target / and on AOE fights (Barrage?)

    I believe Glaive Toss to be the highest DPET for Hunters.

    He says that he would have to move another primary button off of his keybinds to use it and does not want to do it.

    If somebody could post a fairly detailed reasoning behind an argument for or against using a level 90 talent, it would be appreciated. He is the type that needs a detailed and logical explanation, not just a "because its a level 90 talent" type response. He does like to theorycraft which made me very surprised that he is using NO level 90 talent.

    Thank you
    Can you link his armory and logs?

  13. #13
    Your hunter should be embarrassed. Tell him to bind it and use it, and stop being dumb.

  14. #14
    I could understand using it situational, but not using at all is kinda dumb.
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  15. #15
    Had a 340k GT today. You can't get that with AS, not even close.

  16. #16
    Sounds like hes lazy and doesn't want to add another keybind... then tries to justify his actions by saying he theorycrafts lots.
    winnar indeed.

  17. #17
    Your hunter is just slacking and/or dumb and probably your weakest link. Moreover he's trying to fool you into thinking that his slacking is actually beneficial to the raid.

  18. #18
    Your hunter is just dumb.
    GT makes atleast 1.5x more damage than arcane shot (1GT is 2 shots (lets say 1crit, 1 hit = 65k+40k=105k, 1 arcane shot (1crit = 65k)). Cost less focus and can be used every 15seconds. Why someone want to not press a button every 15seconds and get an extra dps? Just wtf.

  19. #19
    How can you not have a keybind for GT? Thats just dumb.

  20. #20
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    1 AS crit is barely more than non-crit GT(both glaives), your hunter seems fairly stupid not to notice this..

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