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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by NotFunny008 View Post
    Wow what kind of a game tyrant are you that you have to dictate what other people should or should not do? It is not as if you guys were failing in raid or something. You have already said he was doing very well. If you want to control other people in game, please go pay his $15 a month fee.
    It's not about control, don't be so damn dramatic. It's just about wanting to get as much out of a raider as possible, improving his dps with zero effort. As I said earlier, it's just as silly as if he wasn't bothering to flask. It's free dps that requires zero changes in his rotation.

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  2. #62
    Elemental Lord Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    It's not about control, don't be so damn dramatic. It's just about wanting to get as much out of a raider as possible, improving his dps with zero effort. As I said earlier, it's just as silly as if he wasn't bothering to flask. It's free dps that requires zero changes in his rotation.
    It would be a legitimate concern if he wasn't the top dps. If he can outdps the rest without lvl 90 talent - who would you work with first?
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  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    It would be a legitimate concern if he wasn't the top dps. If he can outdps the rest without lvl 90 talent - who would you work with first?
    All of them at once, because if my best player isn't even using his level 90 talent, then I'm confused. I'm confused because it makes me wonder and worry about my other players. I'm confused how they put their pants on in the morning, let alone how we got to 8/13.

    Jokes aside, he didn't say it's his best player, he said that he's good and he ranks, but that can just be a function of gear. He can rank even harder, for no effort! Why is this even being argued against. Like I said, it's no different than if he wasn't flasking. Free. DPS. No. Effort.

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  4. #64
    Elemental Lord Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    Jokes aside, he didn't say it's his best player, he said that he's good and he ranks, but that can just be a function of gear. He can rank even harder, for no effort! Why is this even being argued against. Like I said, it's no different than if he wasn't flasking. Free. DPS. No. Effort.
    Who cares about why he ranks?
    He ranks, that's it. Leave him be unless HE IS THE PROBLEM.

    I'm giving RL tips for free.
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  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Who cares about why he ranks?
    He ranks, that's it. Leave him be unless HE IS THE PROBLEM.

    I'm giving RL tips for free.
    Why rank 50th if you can rank 10th? Let the tiny, super easily-fixable problems slide, and soon you'll have a whole army of tiny problems. And that's a big problem.

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  6. #66
    Elemental Lord Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    Why rank 50th if you can rank 10th? Let the tiny, super easily-fixable problems slide, and soon you'll have a whole army of tiny problems. And that's a big problem.
    One is not an army, If the rest can't even rank 50th - it's them you have to work with.
    Priorities, you know.
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  7. #67
    Mechagnome Mcaffee's Avatar
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    I have read all the replies and see some heated arguments going back and forth but I am not even going to touch this with a 10 foot pole until I see armory and parse links.
    When the OP posts these and the community can take it apart I'll consider the OP a troll looking to start a fight in the hunter forums.
    My hope is that everyone walks away and comes back when we see the armory and parses.
    If the OP does post the requested links I'll eat humble pie and say I am sorry but not before.

  8. #68
    I really don't get all this arguing over who thinks he is right or not, or even if and why it matter's, put simply: He is gimping not only himself but the ENTIRE RAID TEAM by not utilizing abilities that are 100%, in practically every single situation, a significant DPS increase. It's just logic, and it's up to the RL to deal with it in a mater that HE see's fit, if it was a hunter in my guild then I would tell him straight...get the talent and stop holding us back with your key bind nonsense.

  9. #69
    The Patient CrenVerdis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Who cares about why he ranks?
    He ranks, that's it. Leave him be unless HE IS THE PROBLEM.

    I'm giving RL tips for free.
    Here is a free RL tip from someone who also raids heroic content. To quote: "Professionals have standards."
    On progress I give 100%. Always. If it happens and I RL, I give 125%.
    The LEAST thing I expect of my fellow raiders is to also give 100%. We want to kill bosses. Fun for us means killing bosses reasonable fast before "the curve" or "the pack". That includes understanding of encounters, your class and to a certain degree mechanics of other classes, what they are capable of.
    It is plain disrespectful to the other 9/24 person in raid and the others on the bench jerking around in raid and do sub-par preparations beforehand. We don't talk about casulol raids. We talk about the more serious approach. This my dear friend is a fact.

    Not giving a certain proof for the hipster claim certainly hints to disrespect towards the raid.


    Furthermore I seriously smell a troll. Quite a slow burner but a good one. I like the topic of attitude in raids.
    Last edited by CrenVerdis; 2013-05-11 at 03:26 PM.
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  10. #70
    Elemental Lord Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrenVerdis View Post
    Here is a free RL tip from someone who also raids heroic content. To quote: "Professionals have standards."
    Professional questions:
    1. What is more important - being top DPS in your raid or using every DPS ability?
    2. What's more important - killing a boss - or ranking in tops?
    3. If you can't kill a boss due to lack of DPS - who would you work with first: top DPS or lower-end DPS?
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  11. #71
    The Patient CrenVerdis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Professional questions:
    1. What is more important - being top DPS in your raid or using every DPS ability?
    2. What's more important - killing a boss - or ranking in tops?
    3. If you can't kill a boss due to lack of DPS - who would you work with first: top DPS or lower-end DPS?
    Professional anwser:
    All this things are no concern in raid (except 3. motivating players is a inbetween pull thing). All of the mentioned things are no "either ... or" they are "and"s.
    3. If you are missing 50 million hp on berserk without gimmicks even pushing the worst players won't do. You need sufficient RAID dps that also includes the better players. In raid measures: Coordinate better when to burst. Banner, lust etc. Using every beneficial dps ability on that part can be worked between raids or the analysis after the raid, where this case would be. I would definitely talk to the person in question if I can see an opportunity to improve (like the op claims to do - see even op agrees).
    1. is a no brainer. If i can be top dps with cobra shot alone why would I use anything else? That just means he outgears content, the increase is in general not significant enough or the other are terribad.
    2. If we don't kill the boss b/c of lets say 4m life and I knew some player could perform 3-5m average better because he jerks around for some arbitrary reason... I would explode afterwards in the analysis and threaten with punishment.

    As on HuntersUnion posted: You can perform reasonably well without perfect talents etc. But every little thing counts. And if you sum it up losing 39m (13 Member each jerking 3m damage) damage in a 25 man raid is quite a chunk over the course of a fight.
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  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Professional questions:
    1. What is more important - being top DPS in your raid or using every DPS ability?
    2. What's more important - killing a boss - or ranking in tops?
    3. If you can't kill a boss due to lack of DPS - who would you work with first: top DPS or lower-end DPS?
    1. Both
    2. You can do both, stupid to say its either this or that.
    3. You look for improvements that net the best dps increase. Using GT properly is a pretty nice dps gain. You cant just ignore players just because they're topping meters, like the OP just proved. Not saying you should ignore the rest of the players either.


    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    It would be a legitimate concern if he wasn't the top dps. If he can outdps the rest without lvl 90 talent - who would you work with first?
    Also, where do you get this info about him being top dps? The fact that he ranks does not mean he's top dps, its quite the opposite if the other dps ranks aswell.
    Last edited by Hoofey; 2013-05-11 at 04:03 PM.

  13. #73
    So, we can safely assume that either:

    All Hunters on 10m sucks complete ass, because how else can u rank not using a lvl 90 talent.

    OR

    The OP is full of it.

    I think it's pretty obvious.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Who cares about why he ranks?
    He ranks, that's it. Leave him be unless HE IS THE PROBLEM.

    I'm giving RL tips for free.
    You do get this is a troll post from the OP, right? s/he didn't post an armory, just boasted about the Hunters "rankings," which anyone can do here (you included) that don't have their armory in their sig/character known to the forums.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by jason1975 View Post
    4. The DPS difference we're talking about is relatively marginal by your estimation - 4-5000 DPS.
    stopped reading after this

  16. #76
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotFunny008 View Post
    Wow what kind of a game tyrant are you that you have to dictate what other people should or should not do? It is not as if you guys were failing in raid or something. You have already said he was doing very well. If you want to control other people in game, please go pay his $15 a month fee.
    Not sure if idiot or troll.

    If you want to work WITH A TEAM you have to play AS A TEAM. Which includes being open to criticism and improvements.

  17. #77
    Anyways just to put an update / follow up to the thread, which I did not foresee becoming like this...

    This is not a troll thread though, I have much better things to do than try to get a reaction from other users on a class forum.

    The Hunter is adding it to his rotation now obviously. I just naturally assumed he would be using it and whereas normally I scan through raiders logs on the regular, there are occasional raiders you get that you do not feel the need to do this with. Clearly I was not vigilant enough.

    I do disagree with posts saying to leave it alone as we do expect raiders to improve in areas when asked especially in something such as this area and there are various comments in the thread stating why that is optimal / necessary. It's not as if we are a casual raiding guild. We bring raiders on with the agreement that they are able to take constructive criticism and adapt if required.

    Appreciate all of the comments in the thread and maybe this thread should be closed as it is getting into a pointless back and forth argument. Again though, I do appreciate the insight and was able to point him in this direction and have the issue corrected.

    Edit: I am also not going to provide logs or identify the guild for very obvious reasons. I received the information required and so did he and I am not going to publicly humiliate one of my longtime, high performing raiders. Thanks though!

  18. #78
    Lvl 90 talents are needed to max your dps. Barrage is usable on most of the fights over glaive toss anyway. Your hunter is bad and should learn his class properly. Also if you plan on raiding at all, casual or hardcore, one of the requirements should be that you should be able to take and handle criticism, and if you are unsure about the discussion you should research it until an answer is found.

  19. #79
    Just wanted to quickly say that I find the attitude as well as all the ''troll'' shouts here extremely childish. Now we have this person who (correct me if I'm wrong) doesn't post often, but now wrote a well written topic asking for advice, and is now being accused of trolling along with some people whining back and forth with eachother. It's quite shameful really. While I still think your Hunter should have just hit a dummy or compared some logs to realize how good the level 90 talents are, this was absolutely uncalled for. We can have a normal civil discussion people.

    I'm happy you managed to sort everything out, Blaizze. I wish your Hunter raider, along with you and your guild the best of luck this tier.
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  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by NotFunny008 View Post
    Wow what kind of a game tyrant are you that you have to dictate what other people should or should not do? It is not as if you guys were failing in raid or something. You have already said he was doing very well. If you want to control other people in game, please go pay his $15 a month fee.
    It's the raid's $135/$360 a month, so no, he doesn't get to blather about and do what he wants when it's potentially screwing over his raid group.

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