1. #1

    Horridon 10N Assistance Please...

    Hi folks, I could really use a second eye on these logs.

    Our team is pretty casual, but usually we can make decent progress. However, Horridon is just giving us fits. I feel like we've tried a million different strategies, yet we keep wiping at the 3rd/4th doors, when the adds just get overwhelming.

    I play the lock in the logs, Eludots, just for reference.

    It seems we have issues with interrupts, dps, healing and dispels, all at different times, but perhaps someone here can give me a little more insight, as I am pretty new to WoL.

    Thanks.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-v8pamnk5mk3b4237/

    EDIT: We just got our kill. Thank you to everyone who offered suggestions. Especially Speez! The strategy of stacking the heals and ranged on door 3 and letting the ranged kill the Frozen Warlords while the melee cleaned up the smaller adds worked like a charm!

    We hit the enrage timer, but kited him around and got the kill anyway.
    Last edited by Elutem; 2013-05-10 at 02:55 AM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Elutem View Post
    Hi folks, I could really use a second eye on these logs.

    Our team is pretty casual, but usually we can make decent progress. However, Horridon is just giving us fits. I feel like we've tried a million different strategies, yet we keep wiping at the 3rd/4th doors, when the adds just get overwhelming.

    I play the lock in the logs, Eludots, just for reference.

    It seems we have issues with interrupts, dps, healing and dispels, all at different times, but perhaps someone here can give me a little more insight, as I am pretty new to WoL.

    Thanks.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-v8pamnk5mk3b4237/
    You should have someone in your group, maybe a healer or something, setup a TwitchTV account. You could use that stream in conjuction with the logs. If nothing else, You and your team could watch the reply and maybe even see yourselves what you might be doing.

    Just taking a initial pass through, it looks like your DPS is just way under performing, though there are things that cause that from time to time that isn't directly their fault. How would you say the control of Adds are? Do the tank keep them fairly tight, or does it feel like LFR where they are just running everywhere ?
    Last edited by Mad_Murdock; 2013-05-07 at 03:45 PM.

  3. #3
    If you're having issues with interrupts, i recommend pre-marking the venommancers (They are standing up on the ledge before the battle) and assigning people to interrupts. Also if you're getting overwhelmed by adds, it's a clear indicator you'll need higher dps. This is a major issue on phase 3 because the frozen warlords will keep spawning more orbs the longer they're alive.

  4. #4
    Couple of followups.

    It does feel like the adds are running all over (as you can see by the amount of melee damage the dps is taking).

    I was under the impression from one of our tanks that the smaller adds on the 3rd door cannot be tanked, so we have been focusing on burning the smaller adds quickly and killing the warlords once the Dinomancer is out and down. Otherwise when we've tried focusing the Warlords, the smaller adds have been killing the dps.

    Are there any particular suggestions for the dps to step it up? I'm far from an expert at each class, so it's easy for me to say "Step it up." but harder to say how.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-07 at 11:06 AM ----------

    We have been trying to mark the venomancers, but it seems like someone always misses an interrupt once the first big wave is past.

  5. #5
    This is my guild strat for door three. True smaller adds cant be tanked they just target one person and melds and each melds hit adds a stack of the disease. Our group has 2 melds and 3 range dps. Which seems to be like yours. We have the add tank by the door with one melds with him. Rest of dps stand together with the healers about 20-30 yards towards door 4. The one melds in the big group only job is to kill any little adds that comes to the main group. The one melds with add tank just cleaves if any little adds comes towards them. We time warp when two guys jump down just to get out of this phase ASAP. Of course add tank moves out of ice bombs towards door 4 when needed. Also dispel as needed.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Elutem View Post
    Couple of followups.

    Are there any particular suggestions for the dps to step it up? I'm far from an expert at each class, so it's easy for me to say "Step it up." but harder to say how.
    We had that initial trouble with our previous tank. He just wasn't into the game anymore and we had lots of problems controlling the adds. That could be a tough problem to resolve if it's a burnt out tank issue or a He just simple can't get it done issue.

    We focus small adds until the first Frozen Warlord drops and then full burn with cleaves. It could be a little healer intensive at times. Good time for healthstones and personal cooldowns if the 3rd door is the problem.

    DPS wise, hard to say directly, because Horridon skews the final numbers because of the buff\debuff. I amory'd your shadow Priest and he shows a 514 ilvl and Horridon shows to be fairly friendly to spriest. Some of your best attempts he's fairly low for his ilvl. Is he Multidotting and all that. I'm not sure who's cheating. I see both Warlocks with 36% damage to Horridon and Jorvic has 16% to Horridon. Are the locks doing a better job or are they skimping out on Adds help?

    Your mage is consistently at the bottom and 3 out of 5 tries below both tanks. For 506 ilvl, Something is fairly wrong.

    I see a couple of times you had folks died to sand traps, I believe one or two tank deaths to frozen orbs. Some double swipe deaths. Those are the kind of mistakes you really have to fix first. It seems like when things get a little chaotic, the group goes crazy. You just have to find ways to slow the game down. If you have to wipe a couple of times getting folks to stay focus on those little things, it should be worth it long run.
    Last edited by Mad_Murdock; 2013-05-07 at 04:39 PM.

  7. #7
    Thanks.

    I have a macro set up for Havoc@focus which gives me a good bit of dps on Horridon (as recommended on IcyVeins). Eludots is me btw.

    I have no clue what the issue is with the mage.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Elutem View Post
    Thanks.

    I have no clue what the issue is with the mage.
    If I compare your Frost Mages damaging attacks verus our frost mages damaging attack. Here is what I see

    Frostbolt 6879269 45.4 % 62 63257.9 3921991 22 134421.7 2957278 - - 04:07 (51.7 %) -
    Ice Lance 2714338 17.9 % 28 12233.6 342541 26 91223.0 2371797 - - - -
    Living Bomb 1660296 10.9 % 16 55364.7 885835 7 110637.3 774461 - - - -
    Frostfire Bolt 1638760 10.8 % 7 53065.4 371458 9 140811.3 1267302 - - - -
    Living Bomb 1087660 7.2 % - - 50 12960.6 648030 16 27476.9 439630 02:01 (25.5 %) -
    Frozen Orb 1009436 6.7 % 38 18247.6 693408 8 39503.5 316028 - - 00:13 (2.8 %) -
    Frost Nova 91629 0.6 % 4 7356.5 29426 3 20734.3 62203 - - 00:02 (0.4 %) -
    Cauterize 45845 0.3 % - - 1 45845.0 45845 - 00:02 (0.6 %) -
    Cone of Cold 32110 0.2 % 1 10493.0 10493 1 21617.0 21617 - - 00:06 (1.3 %) -
    Melee 7457 0.0 % 1 2754.0 2754 1 4703.0 4703 - - - -
    Ring of Frost 0 0.0 % - - - - - - 1 100.0 %
    Silenced - Improved Counterspell 0 0.0 % - - - - 00:03 (0.8 %) - 2 100.0

    Ours
    Frostbolt 29581596 37.1 % 126 136781.7 17234490 47 262704.4 12347106 - - 08:01 (78.2 %) -
    Nether Tempest 16330857 20.5 % - - 644 16279.3 10483900 184 31776.9 5846957 08:20 (81.3 %) -
    Ice Lance 13838963 17.4 % 6 141429.0 848574 63 206196.7 12990389 - - - -
    Frostfire Bolt 12820813 16.1 % 2 236095.5 472191 43 287177.3 12348622 - - 00:05 (0.9 %) -
    Frozen Orb 4313058 5.4 % 91 33190.8 3020367 21 61556.7 1292691 - - 00:15 (2.5 %) -
    Nether Tempest 2808838 3.5 % 303 5998.1 1817435 70 14162.9 991403 - - - -
    Silenced - Improved Counterspell 0 0.0 % - - - - 00:04 (0.7 %) -

    Our Mage's Pre-Buff phase DPS stays around 90-100K. She is ilvl 512 ish, so a grain of salt of course.

    Your mage seems to be doing a lot, maybe too much. Maybe try some different spells for that fight (nether tempest seems to out perform living bomb by 10% more damage done. Looking at a couple of other frost mages on our server. Your mage seems to be spamming ice lance a little too much. Other mages have less than 10, some even 1, yours has 28 on the 7:56 attempt.
    Last edited by Mad_Murdock; 2013-05-07 at 05:05 PM.

  9. #9
    Thanks for that. It might help.

  10. #10
    It's a little bit of everything thats killing you.

    If you stop standing in bad get the interupts right then you need to prioritise the correct adds on the 3rd and 4th doors. You also need the tank to get aggro on them.

    Your longest attempts you seemed to get decimated by:
    - The casters (TOP priority)
    - The bears and shamans hitting people other than the tank.
    The shamans shouldn't even be up early since they "spawn" off the backs of dead bears. Kill the casters first, have the tank face the bears away and kill a bear then its shammy and repeat.
    If your tanks aren't terrible then dps needs to give them a second or 3 to get aggro. A tank can taunt once every 6 seconds. If a mob lands 30 yards from a tank and he taunts it and follows that up with a light ranged attack while dps are firing off huge attacks its no wonder the poor tank can't establish threat and people are dieing to this.
    (Basically is your tank shit or are you making his job harder than it should be?)

    Finally, pull more often. Unless its a guild for incontinence sufferers that many pulls over a raid night is very slow. Practice makes perfect.

  11. #11
    Thanks, very helpful.

    If I had to guess, it's probably us dps making the tanks life difficult. Sometimes when you're trying to up your dps (as the first few posts mentioned we needed to), there is a rush to target and pewpew.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Elutem View Post
    Thanks, very helpful.

    If I had to guess, it's probably us dps making the tanks life difficult. Sometimes when you're trying to up your dps (as the first few posts mentioned we needed to), there is a rush to target and pewpew.
    If you think that's the case, I'd say have at least the range guys stay on the previous add or stay on\go back to Horridon until the tank feels he has control (and he should call it). I'm mostly melee, so I'm either near the tank or I scream like a banshee "Get it off! get it off!" There of course two side, if the DPS is really firing on all cyclinders than they can kill the easy adds before the tank really has to worry about them.

    Stuff like the small trolls on door 3 and casters on 4, I don't think the tank even looks at. Controlling\positioning the bigger ones is all they normally have to focus on. Obviously, adjust to what makes it easier for the group. Obviously communication is important, if everyone is nuking a easy add, make sure the tank isn't wasting time\taunts on it

  13. #13
    If everyone is nuking an easy add and there are elites still alive you're doing it wrong. Look at the other threads (about 7 of them in the last week) for a LOT of good advice.

    To recap:

    1) Make sure you're geared 500+. From looking at a couple people you seem fine here.
    2) ignore dps on Horridon aside from tossing dots on him and as you kite between doors. Adds >> Horridon.
    3) Don't just AOE. Focus elites down, then cleave/AOE the smaller adds. ON door one the basilisks are a priority too because they stun.
    4) Interrupt the elites. If you're following rule 3, you should all have the elites targeted. So... interrupt. EVERYONE. Not just healers.
    5) Stay out of bad stuff on the ground. This is raiding 101. You might take a tick or two here and there, but anyone who stands in bad for more than second or two is failing. Stop failing.
    6) Rinse and repeat. The doors are all really the same mechanic - focus elites, interrupt as much as possible, dispell if something is missed, avoid taking avoidable damage. Move to the next door, do that again.

    As for your DPS... they're slacking. A 506 mage should be doing about 2x what that mage is doing. Ours does. I can't give specifics, but honestly everyone is responsible for knowing their classes. Its not your job to tell them in detail how to play. Point them to the class guides here and perhaps on Icy-veins.com. Hit a target dummy. Now, DPS will be lower on adds than on a dummy because you're interrupting, moving, etc. But if someone should be doing, say, 100k and they're doing 55k, that's too big of a dropoff.
    Last edited by clevin; 2013-05-07 at 09:18 PM.

  14. #14
    Got the kill, here's the log: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=1308&e=2043

    Thanks everyone who helped with input, especially speez, that strat worked like a charm.

    I switched to my Ret Pally from the warlock for the extra cleanse and interrupts and we got him down on our 3rd pull.

    WOO. Victory feels good

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