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  1. #21
    Pit Lord Mehman's Avatar
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    If you want to stack them, having good dps is really a requirement. The add is 5-10% (Can't remember) health to the target it heals, so it will really increase the amount of damage you have to push out in order to get them down. For my main group we have them stacked up, then again we have people ranking top 50 consistently on WoL, so yeah.. In my alt group we keep the priest away and kill the add.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Latex View Post
    My guild tanks all 3 together and we have no problems at all, but maybe you should try separating them for your first kill.
    So you have only 1 tank to make up for the heals bosses are going to get.

  3. #23
    They way we did it is have both tanks cleave Sul and Malak together and switch off at 8-10 stacks, with the one tanking Sul to keep aggro on Marli (She is MD'ed and taunted). Over the course of the fight whoever is tanking Sul will occasionally just throw off another taunt on Marli just to keep her aggro'ed, but we just keep her in her starting position. This gives both tanks pretty decent vengeance so we can help out more in cleaving Sul/Malak. Range DPS take care of the Loa Spirit.

    When Marli is empowered we then bring her in for the cleave. Strategy becomes fairly identical to the other ones after that.

    We avoid Sul empowerment every time.

    I found that this strategy was really helpful for us as there are times when our DPS seems to be lacking when we're missing specific players in our raid.

  4. #24
    The add is 5% - 3.7 million health, iirc. But remember, the add has health (~1 million) and you lose dps while switching. As a practical matter, I'd consider the heal to be more like 1.5-2 million. And if you have a healing debuff to put on Sul (we use widow venom) you can take another 1 million off the effective healing. If you can get 60k dps out of cleaving raidwide (30k with a debuff) it's actually easier to stack them.

    At any rate, the key to Council is to burn Sul before he empowers. You can do it while stacking them or spreading - it doesn't matter. Drop Sul before he empowers and the only thing you have left to worry about is having the last one (almost always Kaza) end up with high enough health that you can't burn them before they empower and crush the raid.

  5. #25
    it depends on your group...
    we did the split up tactic since the beginning and downed the council pretty fast. Yesterday we tried stacking them and while Sul died in time and we downed them without problems, there was more damage flowing around the group (our lock went demo and meleed -> sand traps in melee) and Sul needed longer to die. If you happen to have a LOT of DoT based casters, just kill the adds. A tank can slow them and if you separate Marli and Sul enough then there is enough time to not need any stun. You can also drag Sul to Marli when she gets empowered for additional cleave. Just remember to separate them if she happens to get empowered before Kazra.
    If you happen to have a lot of melee classes, ignore the adds and cleave.

    Just remember: You DON'T weant Sul to ever be empowered. Try going with 2 healers only if your Dps cannot pull enough damage. Having no Sul phase is definitely worth it.

  6. #26
    I would advise against 2 healing on a first kill. There is a fair bit of damage going out when all 4 are up and when Frost King is empowered (Blanka just bounces back and forth between the range and melee clusters). Do ask your healers to chip in what damage they can, especially during heroism.

    Ya, there is a little more damage with the cleave strat, but it's easier to execute. Tank swaps with Frost King were easier, no target switching. As mentioned, the amount of dps you need to gain by cleaving to overcome the heal is relatively small (~75k raid dps). And it's not actually that high due to the dps lost target switching.

    We would leave 1 melee on Sul full-time (to help with interrupts) and everyone else to the empowering troll ~60. (40 for Blanka). Ymmv.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehman View Post
    If you want to stack them, having good dps is really a requirement. The add is 5-10% (Can't remember) health to the target it heals, so it will really increase the amount of damage you have to push out in order to get them down. For my main group we have them stacked up, then again we have people ranking top 50 consistently on WoL, so yeah.. In my alt group we keep the priest away and kill the add.
    This is completely wrong. The whole point with stacking them is that you get MORE effective dps than if you don't stack them. Even with the heals going through. The heals from the add does about 66k HPS. The question is if your raid will gain more than 66k HPS by stacking them. If it does then it makes no sense not to stack regarldless of your groups dps.

  8. #28
    Yes it is for sure worth it. Killing loas in 10 normal makes 0 sense as other pointed out, each spirit heals for 2.3M more than what its health is, so it is barely nothin, you gain more damage than that by stacking them up and it is far easier.

    I have never understood why people are having such problems with Sul empowerement phase. We just save BL for it and burn Sul then, only getting 1 sandstorm, which by using 1 devotion aura and 1 healer cooldown like tranq or similar is enough for. Not even dangerous.
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  9. #29
    Moderator Fhi's Avatar
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    We're doing Council for the first time this weekend and this thread has been tremendously helpful in planning. A question about the Loa add though - wowhead and wowdb both say it heals the bosses for 10%. They have 75M health on 10N, wouldn't that be 7.5M healing in the stacking strategy?

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  10. #30
    It's 5% on lfr/normal, 10% on heroic.

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  11. #31
    I definitely thing stacking the 3 is the best strategy. My guild was having issues with the boss until we switched to the stack strategy. The idea is to get as much damage onto Sul as you can while cleaving and having a few dps switching to the empowered add in enough time to break their empower right as they reach 100 energy. Ignoring the healing add means your dps can focus more.
    To do this we do the following:
    1) Hero at the start and all focus on sul, while adding cleave/multidot damage to Malak and a bit to Marli.
    2) Once Malak is around 50 energy, ranged (or just 3 dps) switch focus to Malak, while melee (or 2 dps with interrupts) stay on Sul.
    3) Kazrajin should empower next, have your ranged switch to him right as he empowers (since he hasn't gotten much cleave damage)
    4) Switch to Marli around 50 energy (similar to how you deal with Malak).
    5) Sul will be the last one to empower (since he should be the lowest on health)

    At this point Sul should be either dead or very close to it, depending on your raids dps. My group does get him empowered and have one sandstorm. As Firefly said, if you deal with Sandstorm right its really not that difficult to work through. My group killed the boss on our 3-4th time reaching Suls empowerment. How we dealt with it:
    1) When he starts his empower everyone stack in melee range
    2) Use raid CDs such as spirit link, PW:barrier, Devo aura, Smoke bomb, etc.
    3) Healers use threat dumps such as fade, Hand of Salv, Hand of Protection, since they will likely have healing aggro on the sand adds.
    4) Once tanks have grabbed the sand adds, everyone move out of melee range, aoe the sand guys.
    5) By this time, Sul will likely be dead.

    The sandstorm itself is not the killer here, its the sand adds killing the healers or people not prepared for the quicksand dropped by the dead sand adds (at least in our experience).

    After you kill Sul for the first time, the rest of the fight is pretty simple and should be a guaranteed win!
    We focus down Malak after Sul dies making him not ever be empowered again, but it shouldnt really matter which you focus at this point, just targeting the empowered one should be fine.

    Good luck!!
    Last edited by Lorol; 2013-05-10 at 02:58 PM.

  12. #32
    The loa has 1 million health, heals for something like 3.7 million.

    The stack and burn Sul strategy works well. Have someone call out the swaps when the empowered add gets to something like 60 energy. If he pulses dark power too often, call out a swap earlier. If Kaz is the empowered one swap at a lower energy and keep your least mobile melee on Sul. Interrupt Sul as often as reasonable. Stay out of sand traps.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by aGit View Post
    it is entirely possible to solo tank this encounter as all tanking classes, this means ignoring all but the empowered loa spirits spawned by marli. this also means you will eat the stun from malak (helps if you have a priest to grip the tank away from a sand trap thing on the ground, should he be stunned in one). We had 1 melee dps on Sul the entire time, interupting on every cd and gradually bringing him down, while the remaining 4 dps kept on changing the single nuke target whenever the empowerment changed.
    1-tanking is so much easier on this fight. you can still park marli at the opposite side of the circle and kill the loas, so no healing happens.

    1-tanking means you can leave 2 dps on sul the whole fight, while the rest keep up with empowered adds and loas. hero/lust at the pull and sul should never come close to empowering.

  14. #34
    The key to the stack strategy is to not push empower swaps too quickly. You pretty much wanna focus on Sul at the start of the fight till Malakk is at 60% energy and even then depending on your DPS that might be too early to switch over.
    When Kazra empowers leave 1 or 2 melee DPS on Sul and have the ranged switch to Kazra as soon as he empowers.
    When Marli empowers all DPS should switch back onto Sul and kill it then immediately jump on Marli.

    The heal the loa does is paltry. 3.7 million heal vs DPS loss keeping Marli away from cleave range, DPS loss of target switching, DPS loss of using GCD's on stuns/slows and the DPS loss of killing a 1 million+ add.

  15. #35
    We use the "stack" strategy as well.

    We leave 2 DPS on Sul full-time and the other 3 dps follow the empowered target. Tanks swap mallak at 9 stacks and interupt sandbolt and much as possbile. Sul dies just before he empowers, then dps follow the empowered target for the rest of the fight. With vengence and cleave damage both tanks do 100k+ dps. We downed council on our 6th attempt.

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