Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst
1
2
3
  1. #41
    The main problem with running two discs is PoM overwrites. We ran 2x disc+MW on a lot of our kills.

  2. #42
    pom overwrites happen regardless of spec. and, honestly, it's way less of an issue to deal with a 2-4 lost POM jumps than it is trying to deal with inferior cooldowns and a loss of ~40-50k raid dps.

  3. #43
    Yes, regardless of spec if both are priests, but it is still a valid concern, pom is quite a portion of healing with the set bonus on most encounters, especially heroic ones.
    Also, I don't think you would have both disc priests do 40-50k dps on most fights, theyl will have to do other things, too, if there is to be no other healer around.

  4. #44
    if you aren't doing at least 40k dps in a 10 man as a disc priest you are doing it beyond wrong.

  5. #45
    Not if you are running with 2 disc priests.

  6. #46
    what are you talking about? 10 man disc healing is like 80%+ atonement. you don't even need to run with enough spirit to have rapture be a regen mechanic to sustain it, just atonement through anything that isn't spirit shell.

    having 2 discs just means you'll have more absorbs thrown around, so there will be fewer instances where atonement won't be able to cover healing.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by snaxattax View Post
    what are you talking about? 10 man disc healing is like 80%+ atonement. you don't even need to run with enough spirit to have rapture be a regen mechanic to sustain it, just atonement through anything that isn't spirit shell.

    having 2 discs just means you'll have more absorbs thrown around, so there will be fewer instances where atonement won't be able to cover healing.
    *achem*

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=12032&e=12516

    I performed your requirement of at least 40k DPS, and 80% of my healing wasn't Atonement.

    Do your numbers smell like poo? 'Cause I know where you got them from...

  8. #48
    are you illiterate? i said that if you aren't doing AT LEAST 40k dps as disc in a 10 man you are doing it wrong. you did 40k dps. good job.

    also, you have to add up all the mini atonements from solace and whatever, the DA from atonement, and the GA from atonement to get an idea of how much is 'atonement'.

    in that log you linked, 40% of your healing came from non-atonement (30% POM and PWS, 10% from cascade and SS). i don't really see where this is some stunning refutation of my claim that the overwhelming majority of your healing in a 10 man as disc comes from atonement.
    Last edited by snaxattax; 2013-05-21 at 12:37 AM.

  9. #49
    If we're going on number of buttons compared to amount of healing, Disc isn't as bad as you seem so desperate to make out.

    20% from Atonement (Yes also things from procs) - 3 buttons.

    Top paladin. 25% from no button at all, 18% from light of dawn
    Top disc. 20% atonement, 20% divine aegis - comparable to the paladin
    Top holy. 25% PoM, 14% divine star
    Top shaman. 28% smart heals (Totem/Tide), 11% from an aoe. More abilities used than the above classes, but still a lot from smart heals - 2 buttons.
    Druid. ~40% from Rejuv alone, 16% wild growth
    Mistweaver. 26% renewing mist, 25% uplift


    Yup, disc priests are *totally* the only class that has one predominant heal. All the other healers are bastions of the art, using all their abilities in unison!

    Give me a break.

    Using Durumu 10H as that's the previous fight mentioned.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by snaxattax View Post
    are you illiterate? i said that if you aren't doing AT LEAST 40k dps as disc in a 10 man you are doing it wrong. you did 40k dps. good job.

    also, you have to add up all the mini atonements from solace and whatever, the DA from atonement, and the GA from atonement to get an idea of how much is 'atonement'.

    in that log you linked, 40% of your healing came from non-atonement (30% POM and PWS, 10% from cascade and SS). i don't really see where this is some stunning refutation of my claim that the overwhelming majority of your healing in a 10 man as disc comes from atonement.
    He has 28% of his heals coming from atonement, and 28% coming from healing spells that can proc aegis (no pws/spirit shell). I think its safe to assume aegis is split fairly equally between atonement and the rest of his spells, which would mean about 10% more would be from aegis atonement. That makes less than 40% of his healing coming from atonement (which is in its turn made by 3 spells), so he did actually 60% of his healing from actual healing spells.

    During an 8 minutes fight, he casted @40 penances (hes got 120 hits+crits from it), 65 smites and 19 solaces - so even assuming each penance under BT, that would mean 124*1,5sec=@186 seconds, more or less due to haste and shit. That puts him at needing to use 38% of his time to atonement heal. Since atonement did about 38% of his healing in about 38% of his time, I'd say that's a pretty fair trade. Other classes get a lot more of their healing from plonking a cd or from a passive effect.

    People act like atonement casts by itself.
    Last edited by Saphiramoon; 2013-05-21 at 10:47 AM.

  11. #51
    The Lightbringer shise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Spaniard in Copenhagen
    Posts
    3,855
    Quote Originally Posted by ramennoodleking View Post
    One should go holy. You won't get full potential out of two disc priests, and a holy and disc priest would complement each other better than two disc priests. Total overkill on absorbs with two. Ignore the above poster.
    As of today, still not patch here, that's not true.

    Healing is good since atton is still quite strong and the extra DPS is always welcome.

    Out set up has two discs and a blood DK usually main tanking to get veng 24/7. Both discs heal without trouble and they make the paper of a very low DPS, yet one more. Our tank is usually close to the top DPS when it's not the number one (tortos). So two discs and a blood DK main tanking with half dps gear is definitely a good thing to be really fine with the raid DPS and, if healing would ever be a trouble, you can always change things around.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by snaxattax View Post
    are you illiterate? i said that if you aren't doing AT LEAST 40k dps as disc in a 10 man you are doing it wrong. you did 40k dps. good job.

    also, you have to add up all the mini atonements from solace and whatever, the DA from atonement, and the GA from atonement to get an idea of how much is 'atonement'.

    in that log you linked, 40% of your healing came from non-atonement (30% POM and PWS, 10% from cascade and SS). i don't really see where this is some stunning refutation of my claim that the overwhelming majority of your healing in a 10 man as disc comes from atonement.
    40% NON-Atonement healing does not equal 80% Atonement healing.

    And you're questioning my literacy. I lol'ed.

    Edit: fine, I'll just educate you on how to scroll up and read your own posts. You said:

    "what are you talking about? 10 man disc healing is like 80%+ atonement. you don't even need to run with enough spirit to have rapture be a regen mechanic to sustain it, just atonement through anything that isn't spirit shell."
    Last edited by Spazzeh; 2013-05-21 at 03:51 PM.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Spazzeh View Post
    40% NON-Atonement healing does not equal 80% Atonement healing.

    And you're questioning my literacy. I lol'ed.

    Edit: fine, I'll just educate you on how to scroll up and read your own posts. You said:

    "what are you talking about? 10 man disc healing is like 80%+ atonement. you don't even need to run with enough spirit to have rapture be a regen mechanic to sustain it, just atonement through anything that isn't spirit shell."
    *like* 80% atonement. you found one fight where you only did 60% atonement. great job you retarded scrub.

    Infracted. Don't insult others.
    Last edited by Elysia; 2013-05-21 at 11:24 PM.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by snaxattax View Post
    *like* 80% atonement. you found one fight where you only did 60% atonement. great job you retarded scrub.
    18% atonement. 5% from Apparition. Aegis is split between all heals, not just atonement. That is around 35% from using 3 abilities. Using the log you're both referring to.

    Yet druids do 40% of theirs from Rejuv *alone*, and Mistweavers do 50% of theirs from Renewing Mists/Uplift combo *alone*. Paladins can do 40% of theirs from Light of Dawn *alone* incl the mastery. Shamans do ~30% of their healing from just 2 smart heals Another 10% from an aoe. Yet you're not complaining about these 1 or 2 button combos at all, however a Disc using 3 buttons for just over a third of their healing - comparable to every other class - is somehow a major issue.

  15. #55
    18% isn't atonement - you're not adding in the extra 5% from self atonement (the 50% less effective when it hits the priest part of atonement has its own spell in WOL parses) and 5% from solace + self solace (which are separate from atonement in WOL as well) plus their GA/DA.

    none of what you're talking about has anything to do with what this thread was even about: whether or not 2x disc was better than 1xdisc + 1xholy for a 10 man raid. my point was that since the bulk of disc healing comes from atonement (and that the resultant damage is extremely important) and spirit shell (which don't have stacking problems), and spec doesn't change POM overwrites, there isn't any real reason to not have all your healing priests spec disc in a 10 man.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by snaxattax View Post
    *like* 80% atonement. you found one fight where you only did 60% atonement. great job you retarded scrub.
    20% is a large enough difference to call someone out on some bullshit.

    Also, one fight?

    If you'd like, I can instruct you how to look at my guild's other logs. You'll find similar, color-coded and easy to see pictures with less than 80% Atonement healing.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by snaxattax View Post
    *like* 80% atonement. you found one fight where you only did 60% atonement. great job you retarded scrub.
    You are obviously not interested in a serious discussion, so I must assume you are trolling us.
    The numbers you give are just there to look like you have facts somewhere, but you yourself admit that you are fine with being off by 33% (60*1.33=80)?
    Why not claim it was 90% atonement, or 100%? There is no reason to pick an error margin of 33% after all, why not make it 100% and claim 120% atonement, or would that be too obvious? (I don't think you can get more obvious than spewing insults when someone points out your misleading numbers.)

  18. #58
    you idiots can't even read a fucking log. you're all complete retarded shit. oh my god end of the world this guy jokingly said atonement is 80% of what a 10 man disc does but it's only 60%. except we claim over and over that it's 35% because you can't read a fucking log. you're all garbage.

    Not okay. Banned.
    Last edited by Elysia; 2013-05-22 at 02:17 AM.

  19. #59
    Atonement: 18.6+4.9+3.1+1.4=28%

    Penance crits: 29/124 : 23% crit ; dmg done by penance: @9.5 mil, crit amount: @3.7 mil, max aegis possible roughly: 3.7*1,06*1,12=@4,4 mil
    Smite crit: 18/83- 21% crit: dmg done by smite : 4.55 mil, crit amount: 1.7 mil, max aegis possible roughly: 1,7*1,06*1,12=@2 mil
    Solace crit: 15/34 - 44% crit : dmg done by solace : @ 3.2 mil, crit amount : @1.1 mil > aegis : 1,1*1.06*1.12=@1.3 mil
    The mastery numbers are taken from the priest's armory, she has a bit over 18%.
    -----------
    Total estimated aegis: @7,7 mil
    Aegis on that log seems to have a drop off rate of 20%, so 7,7*0,8=@6.1 mil absorbs, which is 70% of all aegis in the log, aka 70%*21%=@14,7%

    Total atonement: 28+14,7= 42,7%

    Frankly, I dont think considering Solace in atonement is correct either, since Solace is a talent that any specc can pick with the same results, and it is not really an atonement spell any more than you can think of mindbender being a disc dps tool. Nobody prevents holy to pick solace for the healing if its that awesome. The only thing it does extra for disc is an evangelism stack that is usable for archangel, but we're not really limited in that dept.

    So in reality, from my pov: atonement did : 18.6+4.9+12,6=36,1%

    Mending crit: 2.1 mil
    Cascade crit: 0,65 mil
    Apparitions crits: 0,71 mil
    Gheal crit: 0,48 mil
    PoH&others crit : 0,3 mil
    ----------
    Total other heals crit: @4,25 mil - at a 20% drop rate - aegis from actual heals : @3,4mil

    3,4 mil+6.1mil=9,5 mil aegis that should really theoretically be, only the amount recorded is only 8,6 mil. This might come from me not really calculating exact modifiers and generally rounding up stuff, also considering a general media of aegis dropping off, but a less than 1 mil margin should be good enough.

    So, in conclusion, if you consider solace+atonement together, it was 42.7%. However, solace is a talent and is not really atonement, so the real atonement amount is 35,1%.

    Either way, none is anywhere close to 80%, or even 60%. I'm aware that its not EJ math, but in large lines, its good enough for an estimation.

    edit: the calculations have been done mostly for my own amusement, rather than as an argument for the hothead person above.
    Last edited by Saphiramoon; 2013-05-22 at 08:11 AM.

  20. #60
    The Patient Tenaru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    237
    Man, we ran a 10man normal clear (usually raid 25man but alas we had a weird week) starting from Ji'Kun yday 2 man healing with me as disc and our holy priest.
    She was kicking my ass on meters 100-0 and I was all amagad holy is amazing for 10man why the crap are people complaining!

    .. until I realized 3 bosses in that my gear was half broken @4% durability odd, which also explained why I thought 10mans seemed awfully mana draining. I'm fond of Elvui but fuck the fact it doesnt bang my face with a big red warning sign when gear is broken ;(

    After this realization disc was way on top again, but I doubt I would've been equally as high with our holy going disc too, "stealing" my shields.
    I'm sure you can make 2 discs work fine, and it might be a very viable option of dps is low as you gain 1 semi dps with 2 discs, but I definitely enjoy healing as the only disc as it allows me to mindlessly throw shields around.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •