Poll: What should become of East Prussia / Kaliningrad Oblast?

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  1. #1

    Should East Prussia / Kaliningrad Oblast be returned to Germany? Become independent?

    Near the end of World War II nearly 2 million civilians evacuated East Prussia, due to the impending Soviet invasion. After the war, the Soviet Union expelled non-Russians from the region and re-settled the territory. By the time the Soviet Union fell, very few ethnic Germans, Poles, and Lithuanians remained. Today East Prussia is known as Kaliningrad Oblast and is a federated state of the Russian Federation, completely cut off from the rest of Russia. Today 86.4% of the population of Kaliningard Oblast are Russian, 3.7% are Ukrainian, 3.6% are Belarusian, 1.1% are Lithuanian, 1% are Armenian and 0.8% are German. The region is historically and culturally Prussian, Polish and Lithuanian.

    When the Soviet Union and Eastern Bloc were disintegrating, there wasn't much demand from within for East Prussia to be returned to Germany or become an independent state. Though it is impossible to tell how Mikhail Gorbachev would have reacted, it would seem that he would have allowed a secession to occur. Mikhail Gorbachev had allowed Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania to secede from the Soviet Union, as well as allowing the Eastern Bloc states to initiate right-wing, democratic reforms. However, it should be noted that Kaliningrad Oblast was a federated state under the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic, meaning that Boris Yeltsin could have intervened to protect Russia's interests in the Baltic, acting without Mikhail Gorbachev's permission.

    Today the Russians want to keep Kaliningrad Oblast, because it is one of the most economically important states of the Russian Federation. The state is known for it's manufacturing base, low taxes and economic prosperity. The state is also one of the very few states that in which population growth is expected. The state also houses the Russian Navy's only warm-water port in the Baltic Sea, making it vital for the continued existence of the Russian Baltic Fleet. In addition to housing the Baltic Fleet, the Russians have other significant military assets in the state, making it one of the most militarized regions in Europe. They also argue that the German, Polish and Lithuanian culture no longer exist to a meaningful extent in the region, primarily due to the "Russianification" of the region.

    The Germans claim that the region has deep historical and cultural ties to Germany, especially Prussia, and that the territory should be returned. They argue that the expulsion and "Russianification" of the region was morally, and possibly even legally, wrong. It should be noted that Germans are now a minority in East Prussia and that East Prussia does not connect to modern day German territory. Others have suggested that the territory be given to Poland and/or Lithuania. While still others believe the region should become an independent country. What do you believe should become of the state?

    For reference, here is Kaliningard Oblast (red), along with the rest of the Russian Federation:

  2. #2
    In reading (okay, skimming) through your post, I didn't seem to notice any discussion of what the region prefers for itself. Would they like to have independence, or do they prefer one or the other of the larger powers? Issues like these get complicated fast, but whenever possible it seems to me the region ought to decide for itself through some sort of election.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Wafffles View Post
    In reading (okay, skimming) through your post, I didn't seem to notice any discussion of what the region prefers for itself. Would they like to have independence, or do they prefer one or the other of the larger powers? Issues like these get complicated fast, but whenever possible it seems to me the region ought to decide for itself through some sort of election.
    It was never put to a referendum, but seeing as the majority of the population is ethnically Russian, they likely wish to remain Russian. However, it should be noted that the only reason the region is ethnically Russian, is because Russia annexed the territory, eliminated the local population and replaced anything that was German.

  4. #4
    East Prussia should become a U.S. state.
    random

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic Daishi View Post
    It was never put to a referendum, but seeing as the majority of the population is ethnically Russian, they likely wish to remain Russian. However, it should be noted that the only reason the region is ethnically Russian, is because Russia annexed the territory, eliminated the local population and replaced anything that was German.
    Well sure, but that goes for a number of places. Can only really go by current facts so I guess my vote is stay Russian.

  6. #6
    The Insane Underverse's Avatar
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    I'm guessing the people voting for it to become US state are joking

  7. #7
    Deleted
    US state? Seriously?

  8. #8
    Considering how long it's been since germans were evacuated from the place, and equally considering the fact that the territory is no longer in physical contact with Germany, it would be strange to return the state to germany.

    If these people wanted to join the EU, it would make sense and would probably be accepted, if the usual conditions are met. I mean, all of its neighbouring countries are part of the EU.

    If they want to stay within Russia, I don't really see why anyone would challenge that at this point.

    PS : I'm not voting in this poll. It's up to the people of a country to chose their fate. It falls under the legal United Nations concept of self determination.
    Last edited by Brachamul; 2013-05-10 at 02:53 AM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Brachamul View Post
    PS : I'm not voting in this poll. It's up to the people of a country to chose their fate. It falls under the legal United Nations concept of self determination.
    Of course they have (or at least should have) the right to self-determination. This isn't a binding poll that will somehow affect the political status of the state, it's just an internet poll that is asking what you would PREFER to happen. If it makes you feel better, you can take it as "what would I prefer if I lived there."

  10. #10
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Make it a US state. YEEEHAAAAAAAAAAAAAW
    Putin khuliyo

  11. #11
    It should go to Germany since the world could use the Fourth Reich.

  12. #12
    At the moment doesnt matter anymore.

  13. #13
    The Patient Eläin's Avatar
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    Wouldnt work to just re-draw the map. Others would follow and make it messy. If that would be okey, then give Finland back petsamo and karelia!

  14. #14
    U.S. state of course.
    Can never have too many of those, right?

    That is such a random choice. I got a good chuckle when I seen that option.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by RICH1471 View Post
    US state? Seriously?
    apparently you think its a good idea
    Proud member of the zero infraction club (lets see how long this can last =)

  16. #16
    Returned? No. Become independent? If they wish.

  17. #17
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by RICH1471 View Post
    US state? Seriously?
    I was about to put in a vote of confidence and say I'd actually learned something from one of Arctic's foreign debates...then I saw that and laughed.

  18. #18
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Notchris View Post
    U.S. state of course.
    Can never have too many of those, right?

    That is such a random choice. I got a good chuckle when I seen that option.
    That is Daishi's pet peeve, randomly annexing countries somewhere on the world into the USA, and most threads are made for this goal.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-10 at 09:51 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic Daishi View Post
    The Germans claim that the region has deep historical and cultural ties to Germany, especially Prussia, and that the territory should be returned.
    Source for that claim, "territory should be returned", except NPD etc? And why only talk about the northern half of East Prussia, not the southern half, Pommern and Silesia as well?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    I'm guessing the people voting for it to become US state are joking
    WELL EXCUSE ME for wanting to spread FREEDOM.
    Why am I back here, I don't even play these games anymore

    The problem with the internet is parallel to its greatest achievement: it has given the little man an outlet where he can be heard. Most of the time however, the little man is a little man because he is not worth hearing.

  20. #20
    Lets first get Karelia back to Finland and then we can open discussion about other, less important areas!
    Modern gaming apologist: I once tasted diarrhea so shit is fine.

    "People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an excercise of power, are barbarians" - George Lucas 1988

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