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  1. #21
    So in the end, will it be better for a healer to gem PVP power or Intel with all these changes in 5.3?

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    So for the same amount of Power, healers will receive a slight nerf out of this. However, the real change is that it makes Healers care about power twice as much, where currently they care about Intellect and Spirit and Resilience more than Power: since in 5.2 they only get half the benefit of Power.

    Healers will be more likely to use Power (or take Power socket bonuses) than gem for Resilience or Spirit, or Int if they want stronger heals/damage. So the real nerf isn't the kind of small healing nerf, it's the effective nerf to Healer mana and damage since they are more likely to want some Power on their gear now.
    That's not going to be the case. PVP Power coefficient is getting nerfed and the PVP Power on gems is getting halved. It'll be the exact same situation as it is right now. Actually, it'll be much worse in terms of gems. You'll never want PVP Power gems as a healer in 5.3 if you ever did use them in 5.2.

  3. #23
    Herald of the Titans DiscoGhost's Avatar
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    at this rate everyone is just gona use pve gear so pvp power will probably be useless.
    You can tune a piano, but you can't tuna fish.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoGhost View Post
    at this rate everyone is just gona use pve gear so pvp power will probably be useless.
    People need to stop saying this. For WPVP, yes, they will. For PVP, no. You will do ~30% less damage in pve gear. Stop spreading misinformation.

    Healers, and probably everyone, will start gemming like they would in PvE, I would presume.

  5. #25
    They will be buffed, but only because of lower burst, making it easier to organise gcds and get casts off. Even with a parallel nerf of healing, lower burst is always more manageable for healers.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Briga View Post
    yes but on live they only gain 50% of power and on PTR they will gain more.
    Which is why healing across the board is over the top.

    Damage got a massive nerf while healing stayed the same between the PvP power nerf and the buff to healing for PvP power.
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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Which is why healing across the board is over the top.

    Damage got a massive nerf while healing stayed the same between the PvP power nerf and the buff to healing for PvP power.
    Did you even play on the ptr? Heals are way weaker than they were on live. Buff to healing for pvp power doesn't come close to compensating for the battle fatigue buff + gem nerf.

    You are really not missing a chance to complain about healers are you..

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by macke View Post
    A dk can't peel for his healers and will never outpressure 2 DPS.

    Double healer DK is not as good as it was with a Warrior back in 5.0 because you don't have gag order to peel with or shockwave, charge stuns. It's not a good comp and if you use your brain a bit you would understand that.
    I ran against this comp last week....I've read more into it, there is teams with this comp at 2500 rating right now.
    I play a druid healer with a ret paladin and a bm hunter. Team we played against was disc priest/r sham/ uh dk. Lost to them 3 games. dk, sticks on hunters pet til I have to heal it...switches on me, stays on me the whole time until I die. necrotic strikes + purges to my hots is hella strong against me. The only thing outside of tree regrowth spam I have rly is to get the regrowth jukes...even then I have windshear and mind freeze to juke. He'd usually save strangulate for tree form. My dps would always get one ALMOST dead and the priest would life swap. We didnt know what to do. It's extremely viable right now.

  9. #29
    Its still my thoughts on the matter that resilience and PVP power were the worst things to happen to PVP in WOW. I understand the problem facing the developers regarding PVP without gear specifically for it. Raiders would dominate PVP and dedicated PVP people would have crappy gear and be unable to compete effectively. Still I consider the system far from perfect especially regarding healing and damage. They reduce the amount of PVP power but increase healing effects, making it even harder to burn through a healer's health or health of a toon being healed. I have been in WOW PVP for a long time, having racked up over 100,000 HK's. I no longer PVP, primarily due to the issues with gear and healing, but also the lack of a new battle zone in MoP akin to TolBarad. I suppose I've grown jaded and tired of PVP, yet I still help defend cities that get attacked or lowbie quest hubs getting ganked like the Crossroads. PVP no longer holds any fascination because now its a matter of whether or not you have a healer or are a healer that determines success or failure. It needs to be retitled, "PVH"... Player versus healer.
    I'm rolling a Blunt Elf... That's a high-elf that likes to party.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Retador View Post
    well if i am not wrong, pvp power from tyranical gear was about 50%, heals benefit for 50% of the pvp power, so it was a 25% , pvp power reduced by 50% taking the healing to 12.5% , will benefit from 100% of pvp power wich is increased to 25% again, resillience got changed to pvp power that increase pvp power to 32% sience the healing benefit from pvp is 100% then 32% pvp = 32% healing increase, battle fatigue reduce the healing by 45% = 13% reduce

    Healing
    live: 25-30=5 +25% healing from pvp power - 30% from battle fatigue= -5% of healing
    PTR: 32-45=13 +32% healing from pvp power - 45% from battle fatigue = -13% of healing

    Damage
    this will be calculated based on pvp geared player

    Live: 55-65= -10 55% damage increase by pvp power reduced by 65% resil= 10% damage taken reduced
    PTR: 32-65= -33 32% damage increase by pvp power reduced by 65% resil= 33% damage taken reduced

    healing over all
    damage reduce will be considered as healing
    Live: -5+10=5 -5 of healing + 10 from damage reduce = 5% healing
    PTR: -13+33=20 -13 of healing + 10 from damage reduce = 20% healing

    if i am not a tard, healing got buffed by 15% over all

    note that warriors, rogues and other classes reduce the healing down to -10% and target stunned by nerve strikes rogue to -20% for 6 seconds

    this buff is to counter the amount of burst on 3s+, remember, the pvp is not balanced on 2s or less
    You can't just add and subtract percentages like that because they happen in different parts of the formula. For example, damage it's actually:

    (attack dmg * pvp power) * (1 - resilience)

    Therefore, in 5.2 an attack of 100K with 55% PvP Power and 65% Resilience hits for 54250. In the 5.3 assuming 35% PvP Power and 65% resilience it'll hit for 47250. Not -10% and -33%

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Pazzz View Post
    My dps would always get one ALMOST dead and the priest would life swap. We didnt know what to do. It's extremely viable right now.
    I'm pretty sure lifeswap is going bye bye in arena so won't have to worry about that anymore or was that just shadow priests can't use it anymore..... i can't remember. somebody is losing life swap!


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  12. #32
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    With 60% PvP power:

    A base 100k heal
    On live: 100k * 0.7 * (1 + (0.6*0.5)) = 91k heal
    On ptr: 100k * 0.55 * (1+(0.6 * 1 * 265 / 400)) = 76.86k heal.


    Math is hard mmkay

  13. #33
    Stood in the Fire Edx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyro1990 View Post
    I'm pretty sure lifeswap is going bye bye in arena so won't have to worry about that anymore or was that just shadow priests can't use it anymore..... i can't remember. somebody is losing life swap!
    Disc priests can still lifeswap in 5.3 arenas.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    With 60% PvP power:

    A base 100k heal
    On live: 100k * 0.7 * (1 + (0.6*0.5)) = 91k heal
    On ptr: 100k * 0.55 * (1+(0.6 * 1 * 265 / 400)) = 76.86k heal.


    Math is hard mmkay
    snap.

    How much more do heals need to be nerfed? Consider ms effects and boom that 76 heal even gets smaller.

  15. #35
    The intent of the change is to keep healing about the same while making PvP gear the best choice for PvP.
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  16. #36
    I'm not sure if I'm understanding the changes to PvP Power correctly. Can someone explain to me why, as a healer, I should even bother wearing PvP gear in 5.3?

  17. #37
    I sampled 22 dps and 11 healers from high bloodlust teams and got an average of 49.31% power for dps and 22.07%(they get 50% of power) for healers.
    So we're doing 149.31% damage right now and 1.2207 * 0.7 battle fatigue = 85.45% healing. I'm ignoring resil as it's irrelevant to the proportions.
    In 5.3, we go to 1 + (0.4931 * (265/400 power change)) = 132.67% damage and 1 + (0.2207 * (265/400 power change * 2 from twice the contribution)) * 0.55 battle fatigue = 71.08% healing.

    Relatively, with these numbers we'd be doing (.7108/.8545) 83.18% as much healing and (1.3267/1.4931) 88.86% as much damage. Overall... we will do almost (.8886/.8318=1.068) 7% more damage without changing gems or reforging. I imagine healers may go for some power to make up the difference.

    Probably messed up. Oh well!

    @Diamond, you will want pvp gear since over 30% of your healing output will come from pvp power(after 5.3 a pvp-geared healer should have their healing increased by almost 45% from pvp power).

  18. #38

  19. #39
    Some good info here! Thanks to all for the math and great replys

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophill View Post
    seems more like a re-adjustment, healers heal more but people are healed less
    still buff though
    its an overall nerf
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