1. #1

    Haste for Survival

    At what point gear-wise is it worth it to go with a Haste > Crit reforge? I'm seeing a lot of top-end hunters do it.

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Devai/advanced
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ggins/advanced

  2. #2
    Honestly, I think they are doing it for BM since it appears to be about even for SV.

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  3. #3
    I was talking to Rogerbrown about this when he streamed the Method raid last week. he said for Survival Crit and Haste are so close its not worth worrying about. Pick one go with it. And Ya what stool Said.

  4. #4
    Field Marshal Stridur's Avatar
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    Also note that even though they went Haste over crit and they still have more crit% than haste&. Thats why its good to go this route not only with 4 Rppms (Legend meta, 2pc and 2 rppm trinkets) but also when you got close to high end gear.

  5. #5
    Basically BM starts (at T14 gear) with Crit ~ Haste ~ Mastery and SV starts with Crit > Haste > Mastery. Since a lot of T15 items use RPPM, which scales with haste, you can expect haste's value to increase the more of these items you get. I decided to switch to full Haste for BM after I got two trinkets and the set bonuses, because it was clearly better according to Simulationcraft.

    That's all single target though. Crit scales better than Haste with SV AoE.

    Stat weights (my gear)

    SV
    http://goo.gl/bWBLj - single target
    http://goo.gl/Bh2je - 4 targets

    BM
    http://goo.gl/a083u - single target

    Quote Originally Posted by Stridur View Post
    Also note that even though they went Haste over crit and they still have more crit% than haste&. Thats why its good to go this route not only with 4 Rppms (Legend meta, 2pc and 2 rppm trinkets) but also when you got close to high end gear.
    The actual percentages are just coincidental, they don't represent anything more than just how often you crit and how much faster you and your pets attack and regenerate focus. I mean sure, if you have 30k haste and 5k crit rating, haste's relative value is probably going to be diminished, but that's a different story.
    Last edited by Kennyloggins; 2013-05-12 at 11:15 PM.
    Kennyloggins - im afk

  6. #6
    My question is what is more accurate female dwarf or simcraft. Everytime someone asks about gear upgrades people always seem to say the best way to know is plug it in to female dwarf but when I have female dwarf spit out stat weights haste is coming up quite a big higher for some reason than when I do simcraft (simcraft has haste and crit almost dead even). Looking at armory would anyone on here recommending trying haste > crit?

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...yaraa/advanced

  7. #7
    it's better to go haste>crit if you like to swap to bm for ST fights, since it's not a huge difference in survival anyways.

    I noticed a ~20k difference in dps from going to haste>crit for bm, like on durumu (normal >.>) went from doing 160k to 190k st.

    so just go haste.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by lheoric View Post
    My question is what is more accurate female dwarf or simcraft. Everytime someone asks about gear upgrades people always seem to say the best way to know is plug it in to female dwarf but when I have female dwarf spit out stat weights haste is coming up quite a big higher for some reason than when I do simcraft (simcraft has haste and crit almost dead even). Looking at armory would anyone on here recommending trying haste > crit?

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...yaraa/advanced
    The reason I use Simulationcraft comes down to its results just making more sense to me. I believe this is due to simulation being a stronger tool than formulation when it comes to modeling DPS.

    The downside to Simulationcraft is that it's less user friendly than Femaledwarf. It's harder to make small changes and test them.

    it's better to go haste>crit if you like to swap to bm for ST fights, since it's not a huge difference in survival anyways.

    I noticed a ~20k difference in dps from going to haste>crit for bm, like on durumu (normal >.>) went from doing 160k to 190k st.

    so just go haste.
    You're not going to see that big of a DPS increase going haste; in the specific case you're referring to, I'd wager you just had really good trinket uptimes for one kill and really bad uptimes for the other. Of course, haste influences these uptimes, but there is still natural variance to account for.
    Kennyloggins - im afk

  9. #9
    I was wondering for the people who may use reforgelite what values they maybe using for haste, crit, and mastery when you make the jump to haste>crit>mastery. I just got my last piece of gear needed to make the switch .

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Kennyloggins View Post
    The reason I use Simulationcraft comes down to its results just making more sense to me. I believe this is due to simulation being a stronger tool than formulation when it comes to modeling DPS.

    The downside to Simulationcraft is that it's less user friendly than Femaledwarf. It's harder to make small changes and test them.



    You're not going to see that big of a DPS increase going haste; in the specific case you're referring to, I'd wager you just had really good trinket uptimes for one kill and really bad uptimes for the other. Of course, haste influences these uptimes, but there is still natural variance to account for.
    Yea, I mean overall I'd say it was like 15k to be honest, maybe it was just my play style, and me using haste better. but with haste you just get so many 4pc tier procs and meta gem procs, I think with haste my meta gem proc was like my 3rd highest damage on most fights.

    but on this specific fight, only 51% uptime on rentaki and 39% on juju, which is normal for me using haste>crit, obviously was lower when using crit>haste.

  11. #11
    Simcraft is generally going to be more accurate than femaledwarf, because it's actually simulating a bunch of iterations of a fight rather than adding normalized values of stuff together (i.e. it's a full program vs. a spreadsheet).

    But, as Kennyloggins said, it's more of a pain to use and much more of a pain to make small gear changes in.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by hareu View Post
    Yea, I mean overall I'd say it was like 15k to be honest, maybe it was just my play style, and me using haste better. but with haste you just get so many 4pc tier procs and meta gem procs, I think with haste my meta gem proc was like my 3rd highest damage on most fights.

    but on this specific fight, only 51% uptime on rentaki and 39% on juju, which is normal for me using haste>crit, obviously was lower when using crit>haste.
    lol dude, ONLY 51% and 39%?
    Kennyloggins - im afk

  13. #13
    Thanks for the replies I guess i'll just try out haste > crit tonight since its our farm night and see if I notice a difference.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Kennyloggins View Post
    lol dude, ONLY 51% and 39%?
    well the 51% on rentaki's was a little higher than normal, but usually on most fights the uptime on those trinkets are around 40%, figured that was normal.

  15. #15

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by 3clipse View Post
    Simcraft is generally going to be more accurate than femaledwarf, because it's actually simulating a bunch of iterations of a fight rather than adding normalized values of stuff together (i.e. it's a full program vs. a spreadsheet).

    But, as Kennyloggins said, it's more of a pain to use and much more of a pain to make small gear changes in.
    Yes and no. Simulation isn't really about accuracy as much as it is about being able to view things in terms of probability.

    They really just calculate things differently. I don't think one is flat out better, but generally by looking at both you can get a fairly agreeable answer.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by aHeeRo View Post
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