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  1. #61
    Over 9000! Snowraven's Avatar
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    I remembered I forgat to mention a race when I stated those previous 3. I also like nerubians, but the still living ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    I can't hide my little amusement to see how i hurt your night elven heart. I wouldn't want to create a discussion about it but, on the other hand, i cannot save myself from answer some of these statements.
    You didn't hurt my night elven heart lol. I just stated my view on the issue too. If I sounded annoyed or anything, my apologies, I wasn't in truth, was just trying to explain my view as clear as possible.


    Problem is, the night elves are NOT our grandparents, and they shouldn't have the misplaced arrogance and superiority complex to belive so.
    The whole comparison parents-kids and night elves-other races is hollow. Their "mistake" was not the usage of the arcane magic, but the horrible ABUSE they made of it, and the way most of the other races learned to efficentively use the arcane magic, even without looking at the night elves with eyes of children that needs to learn how to light an oven without burn oneself, is the greatest prove. Sure, in the way to control it these races surely made mistakes and someone got corrupted, but they did it in the end, without gigantic problems, and now are even able to control fel magic without losing themselves to corruption (the common warlocks of the Alliance/Horde).
    True, night elves are not the grandparents of other races. But in the eyes of elves, most other races are children, remember that a night elf, for example, before the Nordrassil fall, only reached adulthood in the eyes of other night elves at 300 years! Besides the draenei and the blood elves I don't think there even are other races that can reach that age! Now from what I understood it was lowered to 110 or something. It's also related to how night elves raise their children. In some story or quests, I can't remember, it was stated that in a way everyone takes care of the "children" (remember, children are children until 110, despite the fact that night elves grow both physically and mentally similary to humans) so for the someone not of the blood family giving advice is normal. Overall, the problem of night elves is not that they're arrogant, but rather that they can't understand the traditions and the views of life of other races. They only had contact with furbolgs, dryads/keepers and tauren for the last 10k years. Furbolgs learned and accepted some teachings, dryads/keepers were the ones telling their own teachings to night elves (making the night elves feel everyone teaching everyone was something normal) and tauren mostly learned some things. Also remember that besides furbolg, dryads/keepers are also immortal while tauren live 300 or so years or so, can't remember exactly. Now they suddenly needed to adapt to short lived races... this doesn't happen overnight. So, I feel that for night elves this is more with not letting go of traditions and adapting to new realities easily (remember the quest in Ashenvale at Stardust Spire with that gnome having to convince the night elf commander cannons can be useful?).

    In terms of magic, they did not really. High elves and blood elves became drug addicts addicted to arcane, and later the blood elves to fel magic. As for the other races, most of them haven't used arcane and fel for that long. Remember arcane was shared by the high elves to the humans. Dwarves still used their rune magics for a long time etc.
    There is only one race that has used arcane magic for a long time and did not get corrupted, and this is draenei. I have no clue how they did it as Blizzard doesn't expand this. For the rest, it either made them addicts or the effect hasn't had time to settle in (remember, Highbourne during the War of the Ancients weren't addicted to the Well's powers, they needed it for bigger spells, but didn't feel like they're dying when they didn't have it to the point of turning into those wretched like the ones at the border of Eastern Plaguelands and Quel'thalas.
    As for fel, it's even more corrupting then arcane! Look at blood elves, they've been using it for what, a few years, and already their eyes turned green, and this to the ones that didn't use it as much, for the others look at felblood elves.
    Look at orcs, even those in close contact with the warlocks turned green and now, even after no longer using fel, they have not reverted. Fel corrupts everyone, and while arcane corrupts in time, fel corrupts almost instantly.

    The night elves instead began as completely inexperienced users of the arcane magic, but because of the arrogance they have in their DNA, they abused it's powers like spoiled brats, depending completely on it, and treated the Well of Eternity like some kind of recreation ground on which sucks arcane as the well was a fruit-juice. Thanks to it they began to expand their territory seemingly without restraint, even shattering to pieces the oldest empires in the world, the Amani and the Gurubashi of the troll kind, as they were unable to counter something never seen. Not satisfied of this, addicted to the arcane to gigantic levels, the more elitist jerks became so supremacists to be nauseating even for a modern Blood Elf, and ended up to think something very intelligent like using the Gigantic Fruit-Juice, or Well of Eternity, to call the Burning Legion to Azeroth, big-boss included. Wow, that's huge.
    Yeah, we know the story, these Highborne didn't spoke anymore for the majority of the elves, still doesn't change the fact that the greatest mess that Azeroth has ever seen has been brougth by begin to end by night elves. War of the Ancients, Malfurion becaming a druid and showing a different way of power, and world "saved", or maybe not, that world was shattered, by night elves hands to stop a night elves mess, killing who knows how many creatures and worsening even more the situation of the trolls, that not only had their empires shattered, by now even their very survival to the edge, especially for the Gurubashi that were forced to desperatily call out any deity that could help them, with only Hakkar responding. Ouch. Never wondered why Trolls hates the Night Elves so much instead of looks them as some kind of supposed experienced teachers beliving to have the right to judge them?
    True, though to be honest, the night elves now aren't really the ones that brought down the troll empires. In the way that they reformed. This is like... France and its colonial empire, turning from world domination to working together with the EU and stuff. Sure, you could trace many problems in its former colonies to their rule, but it's hard to blame current France inhabitants for what the people living 70-250 years ago did.

    And after all this mess, they just discarded the arcane with all of their forces because they were too scared of even touching again a single fragment of it because of the terrible events they and they alone experienced. And they never used it again. Never. And the ones that actually really used arcane magic were the elitist jerks, that are Naga now, Illidan and the High Elves, the lesser elitit jerks, later exiled to the Eastern because of the night elves compulsive fear, and as any choice made by fear, was just a "stay away from us!!!", without considering that have them under watchful eye was much more safer for anyone, instead of just sending them who knows where and, well, who cares.
    Well, to be honest, since draenei were not known then, night elves were the only ones with any experience in arcane magic. They saw it corrupted and destroyed so they banned it. Yet they left the Highbourne to continue practicing some of it for 3000 more years (yes, minor spells, but still) until the Highbourne made a giant storm that almost destroyed Ashenvale because they couldn't control it (if they could, it was only worse). This only further cemented the idea that arcane is bad in the minds of regular night elves. So then yes, they exiled the high elves since they knew they had two choices, keep them there and them conjuring more storms and such, risking the destruction of all kaldorei, killing them or sending them away where they can destroy themselves. It's kind of a hard choice fully from all sides.


    But the night elves remained didn't had all that grasp of arcane magic, so in the end, they saw the terrible results of the abuse their wise and lovable brethren made, beliving that any kind of relationship with arcane magic could, in the end, bring the same disaster, but without even the slightest knowledge of how arcane magic works.
    you forgat about the giant storm the Highbourne conjured that almost destroyed Ashenvale. This showed the night elves the Highbourne couldn't control the magic.

    Ignorants, and as all ignorants, scared of what they don't know or cannot understand. And it's for fear and ignorance that Illidan remained caged for 10.000 years, despite this egoistical power-hungry jerk created the very base of their immortality.
    Nah who cares, he's an addicted sucker, fuck off and let's forget about him in a cage for 10.000 years. He was not a villain to the core, Gul'dan is. Illidan just was, while skilled, extremely vulnerable to magic addiction, and made mistakes about it. Yeah, punish him.
    No, he didn't. Alextrazsa, Nozdormu, Malygos and Ysera gave them the gifts of immortality, resistance to diseases, power to visit the Emerald Dream and a few other things. And they did that so they could protect the new Well so that the Legion wouldn't get to it. How can I explain, this had some major setbacks for the night elves so it wasn't such an awesome deal. I mean think about it, many of the males (and a few females) had to lay in the Emerald Dream, away from their loved ones because of it. The remaining ones had to take care of their bodies and Nordrassil, meaning they couldn't go very far, so their "country" couldn't extend more then around Mount Hyjal and surrounding areas. So the women (and few men) sit there alone fighting Legion remnants while their loved ones are sleeping in another dimension for hundreads of years at at a time. This doesn't seem like a very good deal to me.
    And to think that if Illidan had not created the Well, even if, yes, night elves would have died around 750-1000 years as they probably will now and they might have gotten some diseases too, they'd have been able to cherish their shorter lives with their loved ones, not have to sit for hundreads of years alone in the "Eternal Vigil" as Tyrande I remember said.


    But after that the second Well became Nodrassil, with no other source of arcane magic around, stop it. Punish him but then leave him be. Or at least exile him. No, he's immortal now, let's forget about him there. No wonder he was a little upset when in Wc3 his brother was SO GOOD to free him after thousand of years (not because he had an urgent need of help, was all goodness), too bad those 10.000 years alone in darkness created in his mind the first piece of insanity that will lead him to the complete madness in TBC.
    True, I agree with you here, that choice for what to do with Illidan was horrible, they could have sent him with the high elves when they exiled them, 3000 years would have been more then enough.

    They never dared to say at least "THANKS" to him, only judging. No matter how much they can be disgusted of him, amplified by their ignorance, but without him, on the end of the day, they would be all dead now, by old age or burned by the Legion. Then exile him, punish him, do what you want. But saying "thanks" sometimes doesn't hurts, and have unexpected good results on someone that, while absolutely power-hungry, wanted to defend his people too, but just on his own personal way. No need to be a bigoted all the day.

    But...nah, nothing to see here. We are night elves, we are good and know what is the best for anyone. Curses and pain to anyone who dares to question our judgement, these arrogant pups. Hah.
    I love this part, must admit I started laughing at the last part xD
    In a way you're right. The problem is not that Illidan helped them, but how he did it, you know that saying "the road to Hell is paved with good intentions"? That's kind of what Illidan did. He tried to impress Tyrande and get power. While his intentions were good, the way in which he acomplished them were not, and most of his doings ended hurting everyone more. I gave the example of War of the Ancients and him also hitting his forces on the field with the magic, but I'll give you another example, the Lich King and trying to melt the icecap. This would have flooded a lot of zones, killing countless from all races. Yet Illidan thought it was a good idea... not sure I agree.
    They were judging of him, that is true, maybe too much. As I said, sending him in exile after 3000 years in jail would have been much better. That said, remember that the first time Malfurion saw Illidan's new demon form, he asked this "foul demon" what has he done with his brother. So he did care, and only when hearing that Illidan sold his soul to the devil did he feel anger, because his brother would now forever be lost and under control from a demonic artifact.

    That's my view anyway.


    Quote Originally Posted by Spichora View Post
    You talk about whole Night Elf race by using Stromrage Brothers. One of most humiliating brothers in history on Night Elves. I agree with you about Both of them. Illidan was power obsessed jerk and Malfurion non existent bigot! But all the Night Elves proved to be different. Tyrande was totally diferent until WoW. I loved her in WC3 she was ferocious and brave woman. She managed to oppose to Orc and Human alliance plus Undead and Legion Armies. Shandris Feathermoon was epic too. Im not talking about my favorite character Maiev. She represents how Night elves were back than. How strong and nonindependent, though Arrogant. I loved Night elves pre WoW period until they made them join Alliance and lose their ferociousness. Became puppets of Humans. Thats why I like Maiev she strives to make them (night elves) strong again.
    I like Shandris myself. I liked Maiev, but I felt she was too revengeful, she truly was arrogant and thought she was right about everything, despite claiming otherwise. I feel Shandris prefers to offer her opinion then leave you be, while Maiev forced it on you. Maiev was an extremist and think she's gone a bit mad too sitting 10k years in the Burrowed Dens.
    I have to say, keeping all those there for 10k years made them all mad. Heck, even the bear druids had lost themselves and Malfurion barely woke them up.

  2. #62
    Dreadlord Spichora's Avatar
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    Hmm.. Illidans story should have ended when he created second Well of Eternity. If some normal Highborne have done that He surely would be executed. But they saved Illidan because he was known to people and he was Shando's Brother. Malfurion always made choices from his personal views about smb./smth., not even considering his peoples will and call.

    Illidan has shown his addiction to power long ago. He has shown that he was unstable person who cannot control his actions. Even his weapons he got them from a Powerful demon after killing it. He's eyes burnt because he was willing to get power from Legion by double crossing them. He attempted to kill his Queen for the sake of Power. Illidan was mad, and he shoul have been killed after creating 2nd Well of Eternity and put his misery away. If they have killed him they would avoided so many problems. Thats Why I consider Tyrande and Malfurion Tyrants they rule as they will and they are weak Leaders, especially Malfurion. Tyrande was good until WoW period until she got poisoned from Malfurions "neutrality and inacting" disease.


    War is deception, a game played best from the shadows!

  3. #63
    I am Murloc! Sky High's Avatar
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    Orcs.
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  4. #64
    Bloodsail Admiral Amirila's Avatar
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    1. Blood elves
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  5. #65
    Scarab Lord MasterOfKnees's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spichora View Post
    Hmm.. Illidans story should have ended when he created second Well of Eternity. If some normal Highborne have done that He surely would be executed. But they saved Illidan because he was known to people and he was Shando's Brother. Malfurion always made choices from his personal views about smb./smth., not even considering his peoples will and call.

    Illidan has shown his addiction to power long ago. He has shown that he was unstable person who cannot control his actions. Even his weapons he got them from a Powerful demon after killing it. He's eyes burnt because he was willing to get power from Legion by double crossing them. He attempted to kill his Queen for the sake of Power. Illidan was mad, and he shoul have been killed after creating 2nd Well of Eternity and put his misery away. If they have killed him they would avoided so many problems. Thats Why I consider Tyrande and Malfurion Tyrants they rule as they will and they are weak Leaders, especially Malfurion. Tyrande was good until WoW period until she got poisoned from Malfurions "neutrality and inacting" disease.
    Illidan shouldn't have been killed after creating the 2nd Well of Eternity, Warcraft 3's lore would have been incredibly lackluster without Illidan. That's the kind of image I try to view things in anyways.

  6. #66
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  7. #67
    Trolls
    Orcs
    Dwarves
    Pandaren

    from not playable:
    vrykul
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    Ironically the only two most notable "good" orcs remained in the Garrosh's Horde are two Blackrock, Saurfang and Eitrigg, the most infamous orc clan (in Azeroth at least)

    Personally, from the best to worst (no gameplay reasons, just lorewise/behavion/traits) :

    -Troll
    -Tauren
    -Orcs
    -Goblin
    -Dwarves
    -Undead
    -Pandaren
    -Gnomes

    On the other hand i don't like Humans as a whole race, but i find their "super-heroes" pretty cool, like Uther,Turalyon, Lothar, Morgraine and Tirion, even Arthas as "anti-hero" and one of the best villains. I COMPLETELY dislike instead Night Elves, i don't like nothing about them, not even their heroes or villains, except Illidan (that i still find irritating somehow).
    Oh my We're so alike then xD But I dislike all elves and space goats too. xD

    Elves are so annoying, and they're more annoying the more you know about them. The only likeable blood elf is Keal'Thas after Ian Beckman's parody.
    Last edited by Ramz; 2013-05-11 at 10:46 AM.

  8. #68
    Night elves, Forsaken, Draenei, Tauren and Gnomes are the only races that I really care about in WoW.
    Last edited by Zodiark Son; 2013-05-11 at 11:01 AM.

  9. #69
    Night Elves because Queen Azshara
    Naga because Queen Azshara
    Highbourne because Queen Azshara

  10. #70
    Brewmaster chaosjones's Avatar
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    Draenai



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    Last edited by chaosjones; 2013-05-11 at 11:07 AM.

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  11. #71
    1.) High Elf
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    WTB Elven Weregnomes!


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  12. #72
    Dreadlord Spichora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterOfKnees View Post
    Illidan shouldn't have been killed after creating the 2nd Well of Eternity, Warcraft 3's lore would have been incredibly lackluster without Illidan. That's the kind of image I try to view things in anyways.
    There would be another person in his place. Someone who would not go bloodbathing everything in his pass and then claiming to have good intentions. Nor would Kael go crazy. With one single mistake that Malfurion made he could change todays history.


    War is deception, a game played best from the shadows!

  13. #73
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    › Tuskarr: Northern hunters and gathers.
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  14. #74
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  15. #75
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  16. #76
    Dreadlord Spichora's Avatar
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    Once again.
    1. Worgen

    2. Night Elves

    3. Draenei


    War is deception, a game played best from the shadows!

  17. #77
    Night Elf
    Arrakoa
    Ethereals

  18. #78
    Pandaren Monk gypsybob's Avatar
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  19. #79
    Humans
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  20. #80
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