[Blood] LFR Lei Shen Pants vs. Normal Tier Legs

[Tehterokkar]

Hey.

We made some progress with alts(10m) in Throne and killed Ji-Kun and I won Tier pants.

My DK: Armory

I was wondering if the 4pc + increased Str/Stam is worth it over the massive mastery boost I get from Lei Shen pants?

[Kink]

I honestly don't see, even with the three sockets they have; beating 522 legs + losing 4pc.

[Tehterokkar]

I honestly don't see, even with the three sockets they have; beating 522 legs + losing 4pc.

I did some quick "math" and it seems I only lose around 190 Mastery, while gaining ~250 Stamina and +300 Strength.

How is the 4pc for Blood anyway? I looked at it and seems kind of lackluster, 15RP on losing a charge(90 RP total if you manage expend all 6 charges). It can lead to RP capping in some situations causing it to be entirely wasted and it's not like 15 RP every 5 seconds(or longer, depending on parry/Dodge/Absorb luck) or so is going to make or break stuff.

[Iso]

4p is poo, avoid pls. Thunderforged offset ftw

[Maelstrom51]

Our four set is rather terrible. I'd recommend going with offset gloves/chest/pants that have mastery and passing those tier pieces to guildies that could make use out of them.

[Eklypto]

You could also decide to use the DPS Tier Gloves/Pants for the 2pc bonus on that set. Usually ends up being around a 8k-10k dps boost. The DPS pants have mastery on them, the gloves do not, but give plenty that you can reforge off of.

[Trubo]

If you're going to use Tier 15 stuff this is what I'd go for:

Blood Tier Helm (+629 Expertise, +1104 Mastery, +1 Meta and +1 Yellow gem sockets with a +180 Parry socket bonus)
Blood Tier Shoulders (+692 Hit, +692 Mastery, +1 Red and +1 Yellow gem sockets with a +180 Parry socket bonus)
DPS Tier Chest (+791 Haste, +994 Expertise, +1 of Red, Blue and Yellow gem sockets with a +180 Strength socket bonus) OR Megaera Chest (+959 Dodge, +959 Mastery, +1 Blue and +1 Yellow Sockets with a +180 Dodge socket bonus)
DPS Tier Legs (+1009 Crit, +847 Mastery, +1 Blue and +1 Yellow gem socket with +120 Strength socket bonus)
Shado-Pan Assault Gloves (+795 Parry, + 733 Mastery) OR DPS Tier Gloves (+780 Hit, +645 Crit, +1 Red Socket with a +60 Strength socket bonus)

Max Mastery builds

Tier 15 DPS Chest = ~1360 Mastery (reforging from Expertise) + 791 Haste
Shado-Pan Assault Gloves = 795 Parry + 903 Mastery (accounting for glove enchant)
Total: 2260 Mastery, 795 Parry, 791 Haste

Megaera Chest = 1600 Mastery + 959 Dodge
Tier 15 DPS Gloves = 802 Mastery (reforging Hit to Mastery and a 320 Mastery gem) + 645 Crit
Total: 2400 Mastery, 959 Dodge, 645 Crit

While the Megaera + Tier 15 DPS Glove combo provides more Mastery, it also has weaker extra stats with Dodge and Crit compared to the other builds' Parry and Haste. Unfortunately I can't recall Parry's weight with respect to Mastery but I believe 1 point of Parry is equivalent to 2.5 points of Dodge. Assuming Haste and Crit provide 0 points to survivability (not exactly true with Haste since it slightly increases SoB stacking and Rune Regen) then total tanking stats for each gear set are:

Set 1: 2260 Mastery + 795 Parry
Set 2: 2400 Mastery + 384 Parry (equivalent of 959 Dodge)

If you're not concerned with maximizing both your survivability and your DPS then your ideal pieces should be the following:

Blood Tier Helm
Blood Tier Shoulders
Megaera Chest
Shado-Pan Assault Gloves
Lei-Shen Pants

As every item listed provides Mastery and a stat somewhat useful for tanking.

[Maelstrom51]

Unfortunately I can't recall Parry's weight with respect to Mastery but I believe 1 point of Parry is equivalent to 2.5 points of Dodge.

No, not even close. Unless you have a ridiculous amount of dodge, 1 dodge ~= .95 parry.

[Trubo]

No, not even close. Unless you have a ridiculous amount of dodge, 1 dodge ~= .95 parry.

Huh, I thought Dodge's Diminishing Returns was 2.5 times worse than Parry's. Guess I'm wrong.

In that case the option using Megaera's chest maximizes your survival and dps.

[Maelstrom51]

Huh, I thought Dodge's Diminishing Returns was 2.5 times worse than Parry's. Guess I'm wrong.

In that case the option using Megaera's chest maximizes your survival and dps.

The diminishing returns on a stat is not the same as the stat's value.

[Kamiyomi]

The diminishing returns on a stat is not the same as the stat's value.

true however as DRs rise the value of that stat drops. Technically, there is no set value of stats as it all changes based on other elements of gear. But as a whole dodge is less valuable than parry, though parry is much easier to come by. assuming matched levels (modified by DRs) of each, they hold equal value in terms of stat weights. Though I'd take the first set up given the choice.

[Maelstrom51]

DRs only make a big difference at a high level of the stat.

For example, my DK has 3349 dodge rating and 930 parry rating. From those stats I get 3.78% dodge and 1.05% parry.

From this, we can compute the relative value of dodge and parry for my gear.
3349/3.78 = 885.98 dodge rating for 1% avoidance.
930/1.05 = 885.71 parry rating for 1% avoidance.

These are real numbers, and as you can see, dodge and parry are extremely close in value despite having a lot of dodge.

[Trubo]

DRs only make a big difference at a high level of the stat.

For example, my DK has 3349 dodge rating and 930 parry rating. From those stats I get 3.78% dodge and 1.05% parry.

From this, we can compute the relative value of dodge and parry for my gear.
3349/3.78 = 885.98 dodge rating for 1% avoidance.
930/1.05 = 885.71 parry rating for 1% avoidance.

These are real numbers, and as you can see, dodge and parry are extremely close in value despite having a lot of dodge.

Does Parry suffer from diminishing returns for the Parry gained from Strength? If so that's probably why your Dodge and Parry are almost equivalent for one another.

[Top hat cat]

Woah nice gear

[Nillo]

Does Parry suffer from diminishing returns for the Parry gained from Strength? If so that's probably why your Dodge and Parry are almost equivalent for one another.

Yep it does. Besides iirc that part of the char screen doesn't even account for the DR.

[Maelstrom51]

Yep it does. Besides iirc that part of the char screen doesn't even account for the DR.

It does account for the DR. What you see on the character screen is what you get for avoidance*. Its easily tested by taking off some of your gear and re-calculating how much of a stat it takes to get 1% avoidance.

But yeah. A lot of the reason dodge will be as good as parry is because you get a lot of parry from strength. This means that while dodge diminishes significantly quicker, you will likely have just as much of a diminish on your parry since you naturally have so much more.

* does not take into account level modifiers. Against a raid level boss you will have less.

[Nillo]

It does account for the DR. What you see on the character screen is what you get for avoidance*. Its easily tested by taking off some of your gear and re-calculating how much of a stat it takes to get 1% avoidance.

The char screen value accounts for DR - but what you were looking at is the tooltip (which states that is is calculated before DR)

[Maelstrom51]

The char screen value accounts for DR - but what you were looking at is the tooltip (which states that is is calculated before DR)

That statement is incorrect. It always has been, and is very misleading.
When I lower my dodge to 165 rating, I gain .19% dodge, which amounts to 868.42 rating per 1% dodge, which is quite a bit lower than when I have 3.3k dodge rating. The tooltip is accurate.

Edit: You might be right actually. It could just be lower due to rounding errors using small numbers. Hmm.

Edit2: I was wrong. I take back what I said about diminishing returns showing in the tooltip. The character screen is accurate, but the tooltip are not, just as nillo said. Going from 3349 dodge to 7969 dodge provided 4.74% dodge, showing a much larger amount of dodge rating needed per 1% stat.

It was still very comparable to parry, however.