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  1. #1
    Stood in the Fire KBWarriors's Avatar
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    Angry I Want To Like This Game... I Really Do (5.3 PvP Changes/Healing/PvP Gear Useless)

    I have spent so many years playing this game, and I while disagree with a lot of PvE design decisions they've made over the past couple of years, I've always had a spot for PvP in my heart.

    One of the biggest pieces of news for me was when you could gain experience in Battlegrounds, because I actually thoroughly enjoy PvP leveling.

    PvP Leveling Today
    This is near damn impossible. There are new BoA Healers who have no idea what they're doing and can be focused down by a few or even a couple of people. Then you have the experienced players playing a healer in lowbie BGs with BoA. These people are damn near impossible to kill.

    I jumped on the bandwagon myself to try it out in Mop with a R Druid, a D Priest and a MW Monk when I was playing. I seriously could have an entire group of people on me and the only way I was able to die was within a Stun+Interrupt Lock. Other than that, I wasn't going down.

    Whatever, a very small fraction of players care about lowbie BGs and I doubt Blizzard is going to give them any attention any time soon, so let's move on. Since the common practice today is that if something you enjoy doing is broken, forget about it and move on, I moved onto 90 PvP.

    Maximum Level PvP Today
    Well, while healers aren't as big of a hassle since there's a million CC effects, they're still rather insane. Again, in the hands of an experienced player, they're such a pain in the ass to kill without the entire group focusing them down.

    I'm not talking about a 2500+ rated player, I'm talking about a player who just knows his abilities (usually there's only a few they need to use). Again, when I was playing I had a couple of 90 healers and death was pretty rare for me. I could survive through a lot of CC while DPS beside me mowed others down.

    Arenas
    I don't have a lot of experience in MoP with Arenas and I will never do 2s again if this is how Blizzard intends it to be.

    Basically, this is how a typical match goes:
    - A lot of pillar/wall humping
    - Healers never OOM
    - 20+ minute matches until a healer messes up or the other team gets bored

    Then you have some class comps such as healers+DKs that are just ridiculous right now. Or you have some classes that have passives that keep them from being killed when you finally get one (if you're lucky enough to get one) to low life.

    Whatever, again, if something you enjoy is broken, move on. That's what everyone tells me.. instead of rather hoping there will be a fix or asking them to fix it, "lol who cares, it's not max level stuff" "lol who cares, it's not top level pvp".

    Now, let's talk about the horrendous patch for PvP that is 5.3. In my opinion, this will spell doom for PvP.

    5.3 PvP Changes
    - Healers are getting a buff from PvP Power with a very small fraction nerf to Battle Fatigue. WHAT THE.... WHY?! Why are they getting a buff from anything? Does the development team even play this game anymore?!

    - Players will now have a base of resilience of 65% and all PvP Resilience has been removed from Gear. WHAT?! WHAT THE ACTUAL.. WHAT ARE YOU THINKING? The two damn main points of PvP gear was for the Resilience so you could live longer and for the PvP power which helped balance out the substantial loss you received in SP/Str/AP/Etc.

    Now that Resilience will be GIVEN AWAY, WHY THE HELL WOULD ANYONE GET THE PVP GEAR?! Why would anyone gear up PvP power for a trade off of their main important stat? On my mage, my spell power drops a bunch when I equip PvP gear but it's ok because.. Resilience. Sincerely, WHAT WILL BE THE POINT OF PVP GEAR IN 5.3?!

    It's bad enough that for PvP leveling you have a bunch of dicks starting out at level 10 with 1300+ life who just enjoy killing people without BoAs but why is PvP being so neglected? Are they intentionally making shit decisions?

  2. #2
    Pandaren Monk Of-the-horde's Avatar
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    I really dislike the pvp changes in 5.3 and thats why I will quit pvp once I complete my T2 set.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by KBWarriors View Post
    Now that Resilience will be GIVEN AWAY, WHY THE HELL WOULD ANYONE GET THE PVP GEAR?! Why would anyone gear up PvP power for a trade off of their main important stat? On my mage, my spell power drops a bunch when I equip PvP gear but it's ok because.. Resilience. Sincerely, WHAT WILL BE THE POINT OF PVP GEAR IN 5.3?!
    Unless I'm mistaken, it's because PvP Power doesn't cost anything in the iLvl budget. So with everything above ilvl 496 getting down scaled in Arenas in BGs, PvP gear will be far superior to non-pvp gear in instanced PvP.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Siddown View Post
    Unless I'm mistaken, it's because PvP Power doesn't cost anything in the iLvl budget. So with everything above ilvl 496 getting down scaled in Arenas in BGs, PvP gear will be far superior to non-pvp gear in instanced PvP.
    Yeah the PvP criers seam to slide around PvP power in their complaints like it doesn't even exist while being the most powerful stat on the gear, they just want to be OP unkillable Ganking machines hence all the crying.

  5. #5
    Stood in the Fire KBWarriors's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taurenguard View Post
    I really dislike the pvp changes in 5.3 and thats why I will quit pvp once I complete my T2 set.
    Dislike them, hell I don't even understand them.

    I don't know how it goes for a gaming company but when it comes to a business or a corporation: there's usually a board meeting before any kind of change is implemented. That means every single person has to agree with a change before it goes live. Sure, the CEO of a company can do some questionable things without the board's knowledge (even though they're never usually happy about it) but for the most part, changes are approved by a group of people before being implemented.

    That means, not only did one person find these changes to be brilliant, but 10-20-30 or however many other people found them to be brilliant as well.

    When I picture Blizzard now days, I just imagine a guy named .. we'll call him "Phil". You see, the majority of their all star developers are working on future projects and they have a team devoted to World of Warcraft. However, "Phil" is the guy who basically says what's going to change and Ghostcrawler tweets about it. Phil plays a Blood Elf Death Knight named ArthasDK with ASCII characters in his name and has never done a Normal or Heroic raid.

    This is the guy who makes all the design decisions.

    Seriously though, I have no idea what is going through their heads anymore... I'm not saying we should bring the game back to a Vanilla state where you never had enough people for raids, half of them were DCing through the raid and AFK or where only the top 1% of guilds ever saw content but their logic behind the design decisions they've been making for PvE and PvP both in MoP baffles me...

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by KBWarriors View Post
    5.3 PvP Changes
    - Healers are getting a buff from PvP Power with a very small fraction nerf to Battle Fatigue. WHAT THE.... WHY?! Why are they getting a buff from anything? Does the development team even play this game anymore?!

    - Players will now have a base of resilience of 65% and all PvP Resilience has been removed from Gear. WHAT?! WHAT THE ACTUAL.. WHAT ARE YOU THINKING? The two damn main points of PvP gear was for the Resilience so you could live longer and for the PvP power which helped balance out the substantial loss you received in SP/Str/AP/Etc.

    Now that Resilience will be GIVEN AWAY, WHY THE HELL WOULD ANYONE GET THE PVP GEAR?! Why would anyone gear up PvP power for a trade off of their main important stat? On my mage, my spell power drops a bunch when I equip PvP gear but it's ok because.. Resilience. Sincerely, WHAT WILL BE THE POINT OF PVP GEAR IN 5.3?!

    It's bad enough that for PvP leveling you have a bunch of dicks starting out at level 10 with 1300+ life who just enjoy killing people without BoAs but why is PvP being so neglected? Are they intentionally making shit decisions?
    Healing is getting nerfed in 5.3, battle fatigue nerf is big enough 30-45%, make the calculations, or search for them there's plenty of them.

    Pvp gear is still going to be best for rated pvp ,there will be ilvl cap in arenas, rbg, and random bgs, so 496 pvp vs 496 pve, even without resilience pvp is better. But pve is not so far worse. And those which were better like trinkets will be worse.

    You should probably also meet some good double dps in 2v2. Their burst damage is also getting lowered in 5.3

    Maybe you should read notes, blogs, twitter, and billions and billions of forum topics and try to understand stuff before posting such topics, you are probably not trying to like pvp enough when you dont even know the changes they are making.

  7. #7
    Stood in the Fire KBWarriors's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siddown View Post
    Unless I'm mistaken, it's because PvP Power doesn't cost anything in the iLvl budget. So with everything above ilvl 496 getting down scaled in Arenas in BGs, PvP gear will be far superior to non-pvp gear in instanced PvP.
    I had a character around 490 with both a PvE and PvP set. I lost a substantial amount of SP equipping PvP gear. With the nerf to PvP power, what will honestly be the point? You'll get all the resilience just as a base passive stat but equipping PvP gear will make you lose out on so many important stats to help you pew pew or heal.

    The set bonuses? That surely doesn't override Tier bonuses or the fact that you're losing all of those stats.

    You should probably also meet some good double dps in 2v2
    Well from the countless streamers I've watched, they usually don't last very long. Playing against a good 2s comp with a healer is asking for either a 20 minute match or a spanking.

  8. #8
    You should probably read all the patchnotes, not just selectively.

    PvP gear is the best gear available for battlegrounds in 5.3.

    If you don't understand why, then read the patchnotes again and again and again. Best PvP gear in 5.3 does about ~55% more dmg in battlegrounds than the best PvE gear attainable.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by KBWarriors View Post
    I had a character around 490 with both a PvE and PvP set. I lost a substantial amount of SP equipping PvP gear. With the nerf to PvP power, what will honestly be the point? You'll get all the resilience just as a base passive stat but equipping PvP gear will make you lose out on so many important stats to help you pew pew or heal.

    The set bonuses? That surely doesn't override Tier bonuses or the fact that you're losing all of those stats.
    496 pve items has the same stats as 496 pvp item, just pvp item has extra pvp power. Also when pve item has extra socket, it has less stats. So you don't loose any stats by equping pvp gear trust me. You do loose pve set bonus, but when you equip pve item you also loose all that pvp power, and also pvp set bonuses, and pve set bonuses are not set in stone yet.

    You are talking based on your feeling not on actuall math. I wish people would actually provide some numbers before whining.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by KBWarriors View Post
    I don't know how it goes for a gaming company but when it comes to a business or a corporation: there's usually a board meeting before any kind of change is implemented. That means every single person has to agree with a change before it goes live. Sure, the CEO of a company can do some questionable things without the board's knowledge (even though they're never usually happy about it) but for the most part, changes are approved by a group of people before being implemented.

    That means, not only did one person find these changes to be brilliant, but 10-20-30 or however many other people found them to be brilliant as well.

    When I picture Blizzard now days, I just imagine a guy named .. we'll call him "Phil". You see, the majority of their all star developers are working on future projects and they have a team devoted to World of Warcraft. However, "Phil" is the guy who basically says what's going to change and Ghostcrawler tweets about it. Phil plays a Blood Elf Death Knight named ArthasDK with ASCII characters in his name and has never done a Normal or Heroic raid.

    This is the guy who makes all the design decisions.

    Seriously though, I have no idea what is going through their heads anymore... I'm not saying we should bring the game back to a Vanilla state where you never had enough people for raids, half of them were DCing through the raid and AFK or where only the top 1% of guilds ever saw content but their logic behind the design decisions they've been making for PvE and PvP both in MoP baffles me...
    Well at least this is a rational argument.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-13 at 10:36 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by KBWarriors View Post
    I had a character around 490 with both a PvE and PvP set. I lost a substantial amount of SP equipping PvP gear.
    Here's a 498 chest PvE v. PvP, PvP is superior due to the free PvP power:

    http://www.wowhead.com/item=85375
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=94335

    496 PvE staff v. 498 PvP Staff

    http://www.wowhead.com/item=86335
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=94313

    PvP dominates. Same SP + 6200 PvP Power

  11. #11
    pvp gear will only "maybe" be best for instanced pvp and thats it.the other two forms of pvp,wpvp and dules questing on pvp server ect.pve gear will be best.before so of you pve loving fan boys say o wpvp does not matter,guess what it happens all the time and is huge part of the game-x-realms says hi.arena is more fucked up then wpvp but blizz does not try to fix that do they.

    top end pve gear will be what il?560+ far far better then pvp gear.main stats will big a bigger dpsi ncrease the pvp power.this hole gear scaling thing is nothing but smoke and mirrors.gear is not the problem in wows pvp and its not hard at all to get pvp gear.

  12. #12
    The Patient Ramaloce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBWarriors View Post
    5.3 PvP Changes
    - Healers are getting a buff from PvP Power with a very small fraction nerf to Battle Fatigue. WHAT THE.... WHY?! Why are they getting a buff from anything? Does the development team even play this game anymore?!
    Wrong, It's actually a slight nerf. Here let me break down the math for you: Lets say you have a heal that heals 10k before pvp modifiers. and you have 50%(which is fairly high now and I think impossible amount to get in 5.3) pvp power which is 25%+healing. With current battle fatigue at 30% it will like like this: 10,000*1.25=12500-30%=8750. Now take the same amount of pvp power (which is impossible come 5.3) with the 5.3 changes it looks like: 10,000*1.5=15,000-45%=8250. See? nerf. Also I said a couple times already the amount of PvP power % is going to be lower for everyone come 5.3.

    Quote Originally Posted by KBWarriors View Post
    - Players will now have a base of resilience of 65% and all PvP Resilience has been removed from Gear. WHAT?! WHAT THE ACTUAL.. WHAT ARE YOU THINKING? The two damn main points of PvP gear was for the Resilience so you could live longer and for the PvP power which helped balance out the substantial loss you received in SP/Str/AP/Etc.
    That will only happen In world PvP. In BG's and arena there is a Ilvl cap on w/e the highest end pvp gear will happen to be that season so the str/int/agi on the higher Ilvl PvE gear will be reduced to what the PvP gear has. Also PvP stats do NOT count toward the Ilvl budget so the int/str/agi WILL be the same but PvP gear will have pvp power making it that much better. The reason for this was to help alts and new players coming into pvp without getting completely 1million% ROFLstomed by the guy with more PvP gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by KBWarriors View Post
    Now that Resilience will be GIVEN AWAY, WHY THE HELL WOULD ANYONE GET THE PVP GEAR?! Why would anyone gear up PvP power for a trade off of their main important stat? On my mage, my spell power drops a bunch when I equip PvP gear but it's ok because.. Resilience. Sincerely, WHAT WILL BE THE POINT OF PVP GEAR IN 5.3?!
    The PvP power, set bonuses. As I said their is a Ilvl cap in bg's and arena so PvP gear will be PvE gear + PvP power. While PvE gear is just PvE gear. World PvP will be the only time this will not be the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by KBWarriors View Post
    It's bad enough that for PvP leveling you have a bunch of dicks starting out at level 10 with 1300+ life who just enjoy killing people without BoAs but why is PvP being so neglected? Are they intentionally making shit decisions?
    Actually I can't remember a expansion where we have gotten so many PvP changes in only a few patchs. Though everything is a little bit chaotic and people will say balance is the worst it's ever been, but they have been at least putting more effort into PvP then they have in the past.

  13. #13
    All these changes make my head spin. It's as if Blizzard finally got a wake up call that there was something wrong with Pvp. Even then, all of it look like a big trial/error session going on...

  14. #14
    Why would anyone gear up PvP power for a trade off of their main important stat? On my mage, my spell power drops a bunch when I equip PvP gear but it's ok because.. Resilience. Sincerely, WHAT WILL BE THE POINT OF PVP GEAR IN 5.3?!
    I doubt you even pvp at all, at least in MoP. You lose lets say 5% spell power, but gain 50% damage increase from PvP Power. And you say that isn't "worth it"? Even with PvP Power getting a slight nerf next patch, it's still going to be preferable to any other stat for damage output.

    As for resilience, how many people who don't gem or enchant resilience right now, are above 65%? I doubt many are, probably someone who's full tyrannical but even then, not by much. The resilience change has been discussed to death and back, and the thing is, it's a good change it really is.

    Also, in 5.3, when entering a battleground (and I assume arenas too), your ilvl is dropped to 496. So even someone with ilvl 800365342 heroic sargeras gear, will only have gear equivalent to 496 in 5.3. And yes, I know, nobody will have that ilvl or any sargeras gear anytime soon, it's an exaggeration. So, because of that, you don't need to worry about PvE gear becoming good in PvP, because it's going to be dropped in ilvl to sub-par.

  15. #15
    Balance is a big part of why pvp is bad right now, but lack of actual pvp content and world pvp incentives is huge too.

  16. #16
    Dreadlord Kegler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exodeus View Post
    Yeah the PvP criers seam to slide around PvP power in their complaints like it doesn't even exist while being the most powerful stat on the gear, they just want to be OP unkillable Ganking machines hence all the crying.
    Good luck questing and doing dailies in your BiS PvP gear. You will be 50-60 item levels or MORE lower than PvE geared people. Talk about unfair.

  17. #17
    Pandaren Monk
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    Again, PvP Power is unbudgetted free stats. That's why you get PvP gear.
    Yes, WPVP needs to be looked at, but rated PvP will have PVP be BIS, ignoring maybe some PvE trinkets (which are going to be worse than they are today, and they are being used right now anyway...)

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by KBWarriors View Post
    Dislike them, hell I don't even understand them.
    This was pretty much what I understood when reading your OP.

    The healing/battle fatigue change is a slight nerf to healing compared to live. This change was made to make PvP Power more important to healers.

    Also, PvP gear will be far from useless since it has PvP power on it. The only difference with live will be that people in PvE gear/low end PvP gear won't get one shot by people in full tyranical gear. In that gear they will hit like a wet noodle in PvP, even in high ilvl PvE gear thanks to ilvl capping, which is why PvP gear will still be superior.

    If you don't understand something try to figure/test it out, ask people about how it works or read into it before going all apeshit on forums.
    Last edited by Ziktus; 2013-05-13 at 11:54 PM.

  19. #19
    Stood in the Fire KBWarriors's Avatar
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    Whelp, I picked up a starter account and wanted to give some lowbie BG leveling a shot. I haven't got to test out Neverwinter or GW2 out yet so I figured I'll debate on whether or not I want to even get another actual WoW account.

    I think my decision is going to be made fairly quick.. this is beyond fucking stupid and yes I'm mad.

    HOW did healing get this out of hand in the lower brackets and why could Blizzard sincerely give a damn less?

    Man, I just don't understand what Blizzard is doing up there... what has happened to you guys?

  20. #20
    Old God apepi's Avatar
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    Eh...I just do not know about the changes. They are changing resilence/pvp power so much I am not sure if it is going to help or doom the game.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

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