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  1. #1
    High Overlord Retador's Avatar
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    5.3 will not fix it

    On the PTR last build, i got killed by a rogue before cheap shot wear off, got killed by a mage before a deep freeze wear off, 120k chaos bolt followed up by a 200k shadow burn, paladins drops you down to 20% in a hammer of justice followed up by a hammer of righteous

    here is the screenshot of the 200k shadow burn:



    Critical eviscerate on my rogue:

    on my rogue i had hit for 200k on a player on live, normally 80k-130k, on the ptr i hit for 60k-110k as maximum maybe the 110k was with all the buff possible on my character.

    What annoys me the most is the amount of damage of shadow burn and the requirements to land such ability.

    Most player on live are not geared like PTR players, when 5.3 hit live most player would be,

    PTR player have free tyrannical gear, pvp power has been reduced yet gear will increase the damage


    mod edit: changed size of picture. ~Nib
    mod edit: No you didn't! Properly changed the size of the picture ~Snuggli
    Last edited by Snuggli; 2013-05-12 at 06:14 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ovansjo View Post
    That answer was just... Did you even try to answer his question?

    If you'd ask me what I prefer, vanilla or chocolate, can I answer "Yes!"?

  2. #2
    Considering on my lock on the PTR I've never been able to crit someone with shadowburn anywhere near that amount. Or even crit for 120k regularly for CB.
    I'm going to assume you came out of a BG where the warlock had his crit CD up with zerker hut.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zalkiden View Post
    Considering on my lock on the PTR I've never been able to crit someone with shadowburn anywhere near that amount. Or even crit for 120k regularly for CB.
    I'm going to assume you came out of a BG where the warlock had his crit CD up with zerker hut.
    i doubt it, if you look at the combat log up a little bit you'll see that he was somewhere near a guard as the guards dmg also showed up

  4. #4
    High Overlord Retador's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zalkiden View Post
    Considering on my lock on the PTR I've never been able to crit someone with shadowburn anywhere near that amount. Or even crit for 120k regularly for CB.
    I'm going to assume you came out of a BG where the warlock had his crit CD up with zerker hut.
    that lock hit me by 63k-86k shadow burn none crit, if the shadow burn does not kill me, all he needs to do is press it again

    Ghostcrowler says all classes needs to be unique.
    Assessination Rogue's Dispatch: 23k-46k depending on the target's armor, 43-67k crit depending on armor, warrior's execute hits for 40k-60k none crit, 80k-130k crit, hutner's killshot 30k-60k i dont know if crit or flat, all i know is not overpower as it was on wrath, paladin's hammer of wrath, well on my paladin, hits for about 25-45k cus is holy, but i had been hit for 80k, most of the time 60k

    now all classes have stuns,

    finishing moves that are allowed to use at 20% of the enemy health should not deal 50% of the enemy health. not even 30%
    Quote Originally Posted by Ovansjo View Post
    That answer was just... Did you even try to answer his question?

    If you'd ask me what I prefer, vanilla or chocolate, can I answer "Yes!"?

  5. #5
    If he didn't use a int pot or something, then I have no clue how the spells were hitting so hard.
    As for how shadowburn differs from other executes, it cost us a ember. Which between ember taps and the chaos bolts we need to use to even get players sub 20% we must then have a ember to execute. We can only store 4 and it takes about 6-8 spells cast to gain a single ember.
    200k is however NOT the norm so I have no clue what kind of steroid this warlock was on.

  6. #6
    Why would 5.3 fix it? With pvp gem nerfs its no longer worth it to gem all res. Which means that people are going from 69% res (pure res gemming now gets you 66.5%...) to 65% and gaining pure int/str/agi gems. They nerfed pvp power but the overall net result is dmg is just as retarded as live.

  7. #7
    Give us a common example, where it is easily reproduced and you will have an argument.
    We cannot explain that specific circumstance, and you certainly make no effort to look for the real cause.
    Show us some more information rather than a very intentionally biased view to support your view.

  8. #8
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    Tbh no class should ever hit more than 80k. Having eviscerate hit for 80-110k alone is pretty ridiculous considering the fact you can spam eviscerate during dance/opener.

  9. #9
    Chaos bolt and shadowburn are BUGGED with resilience, check the tweets. This is PTR, and its there so such BUGS can be fixed, apparently it still doesnt behave properly with recent resilience change. Do you seriously think they would stealth buff chaos bolt or something? Think twice, and read stuff before posting whining topics, and stating wrong facts.

  10. #10
    Want some cheese to that whine?

    Infracted.
    Last edited by Nicola; 2013-05-11 at 07:30 PM.

  11. #11
    These threads pop up every day. If there's an enemy standing there with all their CDs up and you sit there and try to eat the damage you are going to get torn a new asshole. Seriously, just log off these forums, stop crying and learn to play better. Go watch high rated RBG/Arena streams, do you see people randomly fall over in the first 2 seconds of combat like you claim to? No.

    Also what do you mean by, you died before Deep Freeze and HoJ wore off? That's how PvP has always worked, it would be stupid if you died to frostbolt spam while running in circles wouldn't it...
    Last edited by Glurp; 2013-05-11 at 11:45 AM.

  12. #12
    High Overlord Retador's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terahertz View Post
    Tbh no class should ever hit more than 80k. Having eviscerate hit for 80-110k alone is pretty ridiculous considering the fact you can spam eviscerate during dance/opener.
    i dueled a gladiator yesterday, he told: rogues are not for constant damage in pvp, i think at least our opener or burst should deal decent amount of damage, on live rogues are ridiculous, on the ptr not that much today i were hitting evicerate for 27k-44k crit, our master is to deal high damage finishing moves i also did a 84k no crit evicerate with re-orogination trinket buff, it gives me 2 times the mastery i have reducing my crit and haste to 0 rating

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-11 at 03:32 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zalkiden View Post
    If he didn't use a int pot or something, then I have no clue how the spells were hitting so hard.
    As for how shadowburn differs from other executes, it cost us a ember. Which between ember taps and the chaos bolts we need to use to even get players sub 20% we must then have a ember to execute. We can only store 4 and it takes about 6-8 spells cast to gain a single ember.
    200k is however NOT the norm so I have no clue what kind of steroid this warlock was on.
    Destro Warlocks: rain of fire, fear, immolate, conflagrate, chaos bolt and shadow burn = deadtarget, that's the rotation i see from warlocks, with rain of fire and immolate, ambers does not seens to be hard to obtain.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-11 at 03:39 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by koaxialus View Post
    Chaos bolt and shadowburn are BUGGED with resilience, check the tweets. This is PTR, and its there so such BUGS can be fixed, apparently it still doesnt behave properly with recent resilience change. Do you seriously think they would stealth buff chaos bolt or something? Think twice, and read stuff before posting whining topics, and stating wrong facts.
    i never said that, may be it is bugged may be not, stealth buff? about that i dont know but blizzard does alot of stealth stuff. like mogushan palace lake's fishing pool.

    about the whining topics, i think you only read about warlock stuff, if i am whining then i am whining about every class and spell -_-.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-11 at 03:49 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    These threads pop up every day. If there's an enemy standing there with all their CDs up and you sit there and try to eat the damage you are going to get torn a new asshole. Seriously, just log off these forums, stop crying and learn to play better. Go watch high rated RBG/Arena streams, do you see people randomly fall over in the first 2 seconds of combat like you claim to? No.

    Also what do you mean by, you died before Deep Freeze and HoJ wore off? That's how PvP has always worked, it would be stupid if you died to frostbolt spam while running in circles wouldn't it...
    about the deep freeze, i were human and faction changed so i had no trinket, the mage poly me untill immune then the mage cased pet frost nova, frostbolt while frost bolt were in the air, deep freeze, 2 ice lance and i lost the duel, simple as that, i saw a video made by cartoons where he pet nova, alter time doble ice lance , alter time effect then he had both ice lance back, mages can easily phuck up anyone

    about hammer of justice, back in wrath where damage were crazy, healing too and rogue had no class healing at all, most ret paladins droped me to 40%-60% in a hammer of justice, on mop to 10-20%
    Quote Originally Posted by Ovansjo View Post
    That answer was just... Did you even try to answer his question?

    If you'd ask me what I prefer, vanilla or chocolate, can I answer "Yes!"?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Retador View Post
    i dueled a gladiator yesterday, he told: rogues are not for constant damage in pvp, i think at least our opener or burst should deal decent amount of damage, on live rogues are ridiculous, on the ptr not that much today i were hitting evicerate for 27k-44k crit, our master is to deal high damage finishing moves i also did a 84k no crit evicerate with re-orogination trinket buff, it gives me 2 times the mastery i have reducing my crit and haste to 0 rating
    In your first post you said rogues kill you in one cheap shot on ptr, now you say rogues is not that good? pvp power was nerfed, so yes, they are obviously doing less damage.


    Quote Originally Posted by Retador View Post
    Destro Warlocks: rain of fire, fear, immolate, conflagrate, chaos bolt and shadow burn = deadtarget, that's the rotation i see from warlocks, with rain of fire and immolate, ambers does not seens to be hard to obtain.
    Not really even with all cds popped this is not true. In the last ptr build chaos bolt was doing about 30% more damage than it should be, but it is supposed to get fixed in next ptr build, I am not sure whether is fixed or not right now, but even with 30% bugged damage, this is not possible. And I am 100% sure they didnt want to buff it in any way, and it will be fixed if its not already. You are not going to get amber from one rain of fire and conflagrate, so with now uptime from before lock would still have just one amber in this situation unless there were many targets standing in rain of fire. And one conflagrate with chaos bolt is no where near enough to get target to 20%, and that's even if the target is just standing there doing nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Retador View Post
    i never said that, may be it is bugged may be not, stealth buff? about that i dont know but blizzard does alot of stealth stuff. like mogushan palace lake's fishing pool.

    about the whining topics, i think you only read about warlock stuff, if i am whining then i am whining about every class and spell
    Well isnt that good enough reason not to post such topic? Holinka said that chaos bolt is bugged and will be fixed, and such statements were true in past, even though some people may say otherwise, blizzard would never go live with such bug, when they already know about it.

    Yes it seems like you are whining about every class and spell.



    Quote Originally Posted by Retador View Post
    about the deep freeze, i were human and faction changed so i had no trinket, the mage poly me untill immune then the mage cased pet frost nova, frostbolt while frost bolt were in the air, deep freeze, 2 ice lance and i lost the duel, simple as that, i saw a video made by cartoons where he pet nova, alter time doble ice lance , alter time effect then he had both ice lance back, mages can easily phuck up anyone
    Well first of all if you are dueling without trinket than you deserve to loose. Also if you died from one frost bolt and two ice lances than there is seriously something wrong about you. There must have been frost bomb on you at that time if you were to die, and he must have had at the very least glyphed icy veins. You can pre-faint stuff, cloak, trinket, vanish, silence when frost bomb is on you, so much stuff to do. Mages are good, but they require a lot of setup to burst and it is very much predictable. Also basing balance on duels and random bgs is beyond me. And making statements about balance with 0 class understanding is again beyond me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Retador View Post
    about hammer of justice, back in wrath where damage were crazy, healing too and rogue had no class healing at all, most ret paladins droped me to 40%-60% in a hammer of justice, on mop to 10-20%
    I very much doubt this, I would say wrath ret burst was better in wrath, and I could very much kill people in hoj. And if this were to you happen in mop, he would have used 5min cd, holy avenger, 2min cd, and wings, and probably even had inquisition up, and some stored holy power, and you ( as rogue) can counter this with trinket which is 2min cd, or even pre faint before hoj, or good combat readiness, or just having cheat death. So it's not like you cant do anything, and again burst very much predictable when you see ret push all his buttons at once. Which will cost him duel if you survive.

    I didnt want to even reply as there is so much contradiction and unawareness in your posts but had to, peace out.

  14. #14
    High Overlord Retador's Avatar
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    i have knowledge of every class from wrath, the only class that changed the most are warlocks, and i am not lying, i check the combat log every time, PTR players get free flask, they might be running with it, i dont, i got killed by a rogue from 100% to 0% in a cheapshot, i tried to do that, did not worked, the target healt were left at 10% not doing anything hunter, 40% priest disc priest, 40% resto shaman (gladiator) 35% windwalker monk, 40% warrior, 45% death knight, 25% rogue, i was wondering, how, then i saw a rogue taking a lock from 100% to 0% in a cheapshot, when i check his gear 4 set pve 522, the 4 set reduce the energy cost from abilities by 40% while shadow dance and 2 set makes the finishing move have 1 extra combo point.

    maybe i am bitching about pvp is not 1vs1 balance, or that rogues dont have damage reduce if they are cc and even having damage reduce still cant 1vs1 any other melee other than rogue and shamans, feint last 5 seconds, cost 20 energy and you must be spaming it to have it at it full potential, rogue's self healing is bad except for premeditation+ recuperation in stealth

    most classes have easy self healing and passive or auto damage reduction. rogues are squishy, maybe that's the problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ovansjo View Post
    That answer was just... Did you even try to answer his question?

    If you'd ask me what I prefer, vanilla or chocolate, can I answer "Yes!"?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Retador View Post
    i was wondering, how, then i saw a rogue taking a lock from 100% to 0% in a cheapshot, when i check his gear 4 set pve 522, the 4 set reduce the energy cost from abilities by 40% while shadow dance and 2 set makes the finishing move have 1 extra combo point.
    Well that is a good point, I must elaborate on this and check some numbers. Holinka was asking people to point out what set bonuses might be the problem in pvp so I guess I will post there too. Rogue burst is high enough already so really need to check some things, if I should expect to get one shotted in 5.3, would be very sad.

    Edit, well it's shadow blades, so only every 3mins, and the 2set just make the finishers which have some duration already longer. Still it's pretty viable, and increases the burst by quite a lot.
    Last edited by koaxialus; 2013-05-11 at 10:29 PM.

  16. #16
    The Lightbringer Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retador View Post
    On the PTR last build, i got killed by a rogue before cheap shot wear off, got killed by a mage before a deep freeze wear off, 120k chaos bolt followed up by a 200k shadow burn, paladins drops you down to 20% in a hammer of justice followed up by a hammer of righteous

    here is the screenshot of the 200k shadow burn:


    Critical eviscerate on my rogue:

    on my rogue i had hit for 200k on a player on live, normally 80k-130k, on the ptr i hit for 60k-110k as maximum maybe the 110k was with all the buff possible on my character.

    What annoys me the most is the amount of damage of shadow burn and the requirements to land such ability.

    Most player on live are not geared like PTR players, when 5.3 hit live most player would be,

    PTR player have free tyrannical gear, pvp power has been reduced yet gear will increase the damage

    mod edit: changed size of picture.
    Let me get this right, you are complaining that you, as a rogue, got beaten by another rogue, Yes? You are complaining that killed by a warlock with chaos bolt and shadowburn? yes? What you failed to take into account is the time needed to build those embers to kill you with, and if you didn't kill the warlock in that time, thats your fault.

    Complaining that another rogue beat your rogue, again, thats your fault you lost.

    in closing and walking away, I'm not sure exactly what your tears are about. Might want to tell us.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-11 at 05:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Retador View Post
    that lock hit me by 63k-86k shadow burn none crit, if the shadow burn does not kill me, all he needs to do is press it again

    Ghostcrowler says all classes needs to be unique.
    Assessination Rogue's Dispatch: 23k-46k depending on the target's armor, 43-67k crit depending on armor, warrior's execute hits for 40k-60k none crit, 80k-130k crit, hutner's killshot 30k-60k i dont know if crit or flat, all i know is not overpower as it was on wrath, paladin's hammer of wrath, well on my paladin, hits for about 25-45k cus is holy, but i had been hit for 80k, most of the time 60k

    now all classes have stuns,

    finishing moves that are allowed to use at 20% of the enemy health should not deal 50% of the enemy health. not even 30%
    no... shadowburn doesn't work like that... if as you claim, 'you have knowledge of every class'... then you'd know that... shadowburn requires a burning ember AND you to be under 20%.

    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=29341

    Shadowburn
    100 yd range
    Instant
    Requires level 1
    Instantly blasts the target for (3365 ( + 350% of SpellPower) * 1.24) Shadow damage. Only usable on enemies that have less than 20% health.

    Restores 15% of your total mana after 5 sec. If the target dies within 5 sec, and yields experience or honor, the caster gains a Burning Ember instead.
    Might also help you to have some better gear... and some hit... < 3% hit is horrible...
    Last edited by Seranthor; 2013-05-11 at 10:40 PM.

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  17. #17
    I am Murloc! Baracuda's Avatar
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    You stack PvP power and use PvP gear on 5.3 PTR, of course you're gonna fail. Before the pvp power nerf and find weakness nerf I could kill 2 players with full health in seconds, I haven't tried rogue again after that but I bet you can do similar with PvE gear since its damage is equal if not stronger than pre-nerf PvP gear.
    Quote Originally Posted by kbarh View Post
    may i suggest you check out wowwiki or any similar site, it's Grom that orders the murder of Cairne

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by koaxialus View Post
    Chaos bolt and shadowburn are BUGGED with resilience, check the tweets. This is PTR, and its there so such BUGS can be fixed, apparently it still doesnt behave properly with recent resilience change. Do you seriously think they would stealth buff chaos bolt or something? Think twice, and read stuff before posting whining topics, and stating wrong facts.
    Chaos Bolt and Shadowburn ARE NOT bugged. Shadowburn hits hard as hell on live too, so nothing new here, 60-70k HITS on average with no CDs or procs. The thing is Chaos Bolt it's not actually bugged anymore on the PTR. The obvious question will come "wut, where da hell is CB bugged?" Yes, Chaos Bolt damage in PvP is bugged for ages, it doesn't benefit from PvP Power entirely, it only gets 1/3 of it, so if you have 60% PvP Power on live your Chaos Bolt only gets 20% increased damage.

    I played on the PTR before the PvP Power nerf and I imediately noticed a huge increase in dmg of CB with the same gear, so I did a quick math and I found out CB is getting full benefit of PvP Power. Numbers were something like this, no CDs CB 70k-80k on live while on PTR was like 115k, with cds like 120-130k live while on PTR was around 170k; my highest in arena on the PTR was 210k, only self buffed with some procs. Again, this was before the PvP Power nerf when I had like 55%, now it's like 29%, so the dmg is obviously much lower.

    Bottom line is, dmg is high, but the ability IS NOT BUGGED, it's actually working as it should, on live it is bugged.

  19. #19
    Pandaren Monk
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    The only way this happened is if those classes are popping CD's with double procs, a racial, and engi gloves, and you aren't popping a single defensive CD. Not saying the insane damage is okay, but you should probably pop elusiveness or cloak or vanish or something. But yeah, unless the damage happens in a controlled environment, it doesn't matter.

    Needs to be no chance of flasks, potions, food buff, etc. to call for nerfs.

  20. #20
    i was gonna.. but i'm not gonna.






    maybe you should re-roll.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    The devs aren't stupid.

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