Page 2 of 12 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
... LastLast
  1. #21
    The majority of WoW players has always been comprised of Casual players, players who don't play often but enjoy all the content and distractions available. MMO's are the a fancy playgrounds at the park, and Casuals are the kids who come to play on the weekends.

    The subscription model is something that works against what Casual players are. It enforces a system that rewards players for spending more time playing the game every day over playing it casually or just on the weekends. A F2P MMO is a giant sandbox that lets you play when you want to without any real commitment.

  2. #22
    Well for me there is no game that is worth a sub fee. If I have to pay for upcoming content that is fine, but let it be my choice.

  3. #23
    Pandaren Monk
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,772
    Quote Originally Posted by stellvia View Post
    RE: GW2 -- I think it's too early to say. They've been released for what? 6-7 months now? And we have no idea what kind of revenue they're making off the item store. Or what kind of content patches we're likely to see from them another 1-2 years down the road. They released with a really sparse amount of higher end content as well, keep in mind. A handful of dungeons, and very little gear grind. There is PvP, but I haven't heard very good things about the WuvWuv.

    GW2 major selling point is the World vs World. This has created very close communities on every realm with WvW guilds working together as a team against other realms. The only way i can describe it to Wow players is its like World PvP on steroids... its absolutely amazing if u like that kind of thing.

    The rivalries between realms on each weekly matchup keeps the forums buzzing and the competition is fierce for realm bragging rights.

    I play on an RP realm and we are very high in the ladders. Our realm has setup their own website and they have weekly meetings on Teamspeak with the top 20 -30 guilds all discussing the upcoming weeks tactics and progression. Consequently my realm has jumped up alot in population the past month because alot of people r moving to our realm to enjoy high quality WvW.

    And just to give u an idea of number of players, we have 3 or 4 guilds with over 300 members. And they each usually enter WvW with around 50 players in an evening. And we are actually a low pop realm... go figure.

    As far as community goes GW2 is much more like a traditional MMO because everyone on the realm is working together. Personal reputations matter and guilds rep is paramount.

    So, those Wow players who checked out GW2 for PvE raiding content got disappointed because it doesnt exist in GW2. However, there is plenty of PvE content its just very differnet than Wow. And like i said, the top guilds r all WvW guilds not PvE guilds.

    EDIT: here is a vid of a couple of Russian guilds on my realm (Piken Square) fighting against a German realm at aroun 2pm on a weekday. Check just how many players r playing... and bear in mind this is only 1 of FOUR maps which are all full up with players at this time.

    Last edited by Endemonadia; 2013-05-11 at 02:12 AM.

  4. #24
    Brewmaster insmek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Fort Walton Beach, FL
    Posts
    1,399
    MMORPGs are like a relationship. WoW is a long-term relationship that I just got out of, so right now I'm not really looking for anything serious. F2P games let me fool around and have a good time without having to drop a bunch of cash up front or in the long term.

  5. #25
    Warchief Lemposs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    2,176
    Free 2 play is still hard for me, I don't buy skins, buffs for exp or other stuff, pets etc.. I just don't find anything tempting to buy, so pay to play is still my thing I see it as just paying for all the content. Would be cool if some f2p had a subscribtion for all the content and a system where you could pay for the ones you want, sorta like TV packs.

    I really hate when people bitch about 15$ sub but use 20-30$ a month on a free to play. Highly illogical.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemposs View Post
    I really hate when people bitch about 15$ sub but use 20-30$ a month on a free to play. Highly illogical.
    Not illogical at all, in fact it makes more sense. A sub is paying for content regardless of what you get, you have no control over what you get next month, whether it's dailies or a new raid. The money you spend in a F2P goes towards things you want to purchase. You're paying for content that you want.

    And in both scenarios, you're still playing the game and content is being added regardless.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    Not illogical at all, in fact it makes more sense. A sub is paying for content regardless of what you get, you have no control over what you get next month, whether it's dailies or a new raid. The money you spend in a F2P goes towards things you want to purchase. You're paying for content that you want.

    And in both scenarios, you're still playing the game and content is being added regardless.
    It's quite the contrary actually.With a sub you directly have control over the entire game.You can easily make out if the game is worth it's fee and then enjoy the ride.
    In a F2P you have control over nothing.You might buy only what you like but you're constantly forced to weigh whether you should something or not,because mostly there is no refund.Also F2P tend to add lots of small things to the cash shop over time,then again you're forced to weigh down options,should I buy this or not,is it worth it?Money is constantly on your mind.You don't know what they're gonna add next week,''Will I have to buy something again or not buy and sit there with envy cause I'm kind of tired of forking money''.

    That's what F2P are good at.Making you think about money,money,money and less about gaming.You may control what you buy but your game experience is constantly bombarded with decisions about money.

    So while you play your F2P and control your game with money constantly sub players can just pay a sub and enjoy the game fully for a whole month.
    You say sub players don't have control over what they get next month,it's the same for you,you'll also have to fork out money to play the new content like sub players will have to pay a sub to play a new month again.

  8. #28
    I think they're becoming way more popular nowadays because alot of the trial and error F2P P2Win games are dead for the most part, now its more F2P P2get stuff faster/ look cooler.

  9. #29
    Not sure which MMO champion crowd is going to be in this thread, probably the "has a really cool hipster social life and only has 30 minutes a week free to play an MMO but is also in college so only has $10 per month to spend on entertainment" crowd but here goes. The subscription fee has NEVER been my deciding factor on whether or not I play a MMO. If I'm not playing it, it's because it either doesn't interest me whatsoever or it is a bad game. If I find a MMO that gives me dozens of hours of play every month which I find compelling, I will gladly pay a subscription fee.

    My problem with FTP we are still waiting on a successful model to emerge. My preference, in the spirit of true FTP is the full featured game being free with a cash shop for vanity content. The majority of the players play free while the game is supported by the minority of "whales" who buy up the pets, costumes, mounts etc. This also compels the developers to actually make the game "good" to foster a community of long term whales.

    What I dread is a $15 p/m MMO being broken down and compartmentalized behind paywalls to the point where reassembling all content together to get full access to all the features and content of the game comes to $30 p/m. You gotta know that's the model so many in the industry salivate over.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by stellvia View Post
    Preface: I'm not against F2P. There are situations and cases for both.

    Why is there so much support for F2P like it's the next greatest thing ever?

    Certainly there have been a large glut of derivative MMOs that should never have launched with a subscription when they couldn't support regular content updates, nor had the polish in the game to warrant players attention. But on the flipside of that -- my perception of 99% of F2P MMOs has not been a good one. They're either designed to sabotage gameplay to push for item store sales, or are generally of rather sparse features, low quality, and highly derivative in nature. Or they're failed sub MMOs that get retooled to increase revenues.

    IMHO the best F2P ones I've found on rare occasion, are the ones that offer a "sub fee" that basically eliminates all the bad stuff about F2P. Unfortunately they still tend to be slower in content releases than regular MMOs. Like, one of my favorite F2Ps was Mabinogi. I probably spent about $20-25/mo on that. $15 got you the "premium status" which was basically a monthly sub that removed all the annoying time sinks tied to F2P. And then I paid for a rebirth of my character every 3 weeks to level faster.

    I would much rather just pay a monthly fee and know I'm getting the whole game and not have to worry about where I'm being nickel and dimed at. I think the issue still is just that WoW was so dominant and had such polish, that people saw anything else with a sub as not nearly stacking up to the level of features it offered. With the decline of WoW over the next several years, we may finally see other games able to make their way with subs, or at least a hybrid system of offering both right off the bat in a sensible manner that doesn't seed misery into the gameplay without it.
    Because it's free? Any game that is free to play is going to attract people.
    Perfect example of why "community" forums are poisonous to the health of a development team. These developers are wasting hundreds of hours trying to stem the tide of incessant bitchery that would never, ever abate so long as these entitled, unfortunate human beings don't get their way.

  11. #31
    Pit Lord
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    all over the world
    Posts
    2,411
    the main games i play that are b2p or f2p are LoL, WoT (world of tanks), GW2, SC2, and SWTOR.

    granted LoL is a moba, sc2 isnt an mmo and WoT is an mmofps but they offer great replay ability and there is no feeling that i need to log in everyday. there is no gear treadmill i guess. you can play it at your leisure and not worrying about falling behind everyone.

    swtor and gw2 are a little different but they still offer, in my honest opinion, good quality content an charge no monthly fee. if i can get my months worth of enjoyment out of these games and not have to worry about paying $15 a month then in 3 or 4 months when another b2p or f2p game comes out i can try it out.

    i play a lot of different games and dont necessarily spend a lot of time on one. so for me spending money on a game one time is the best deal as i dont really know how much time ill spend playing it in any given time period. however if there is a game that i think looks worth the money i will actually in fact pay the monthly fee. in this instance im finding the pvp in swtor to be pretty fun so i actually sub'd for a month to see if it has any lasting effect. this would ring true if i found WoW to be appealing and while the story piques my interest its not enough at this moment

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by stellvia View Post

    I would much rather just pay a monthly fee and know I'm getting the whole game and not have to worry about where I'm being nickel and dimed at. I think the issue still is just that WoW was so dominant and had such polish, that people saw anything else with a sub as not nearly stacking up to the level of features it offered. With the decline of WoW over the next several years, we may finally see other games able to make their way with subs, or at least a hybrid system of offering both right off the bat in a sensible manner that doesn't seed misery into the gameplay without it.
    The thing is, you don't get the whole game. Blizzard charges outrageous sums for server transfers, recustomization, etc. More than many F2P games...and you still have to pay a subscription fee on top of that. Now in an absolute sense, $15 is still a bargain - that was the same amount we were paying for MMO's ~15 years ago. But in a relative sense (which is ultimately all that matters) it starts to seem like kind of a crappy deal when other games let you play their whole game for free except for the things you have to pay extra for in WoW anyway.

    The "regular content" updates argument is also pretty much bunk. Wow has gone literally an entire year without a patch before, and 6-8 months is pretty normal. That's over $100 of cash for 0 content. Rift is the only sub MMO I'm aware of that actually updates enough to be worthy of a sub fee, and from my understanding even that has fallen away with Storm Legion.

    That's not to say there aren't plenty of terrible F2P games by any means, but I have found that a lot of players who prefer the sub model don't approach this conversation very honestly. Even if you (you general, not you personally) love WoW, for example, you are actually paying a comparatively huge sum for infrequent content updates and various services compared to the industry standard. If that's worth it to you, great. But Blizzard is not pumping out updates quickly by any stretch of the imagination.

  13. #33
    The only mainstream MMO that is left with a subscription is WoW isn't it? Either way even WoW embraced the glory of the itemshop by now.

    Item shops are here to stay wether it's on a subscription based game, F2P or B2P game.
    ♦ Scepticist ♦ Critic ♦ INTJ

  14. #34
    Pandaren Monk Of-the-horde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Frankfurt am Main
    Posts
    1,891
    I buy riot points for LOL thats the only thing i bought in f2p games besides that i play gw2 and wow. Its nice while taking a break from wow you have other games to just play without paying anything too bad my pc is kinda out of date for gw2 and it lags a bit

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    The only F2P game I have respect for is LoL.

    All other games, even GW2, have a cash shop that tests my tolerance.

    I prefer an honest and completely fair MMOs where 100% of my progression depends on my time invested and skill, even if I have to pay a sub for it. Cash shops that can save you hundreds of hours of gameplay and trouble are hard for me to tolerate.

    I like to grind, but knowing I can just whip out a credit card and get it in 5 minutes instead of 2 months is a huge turnoff for me.
    In GW2 you can buy the "cash" currency with in-game gold too. All the items are purely cosmetic or boosts. So except the price for the game itself you can say that GW2 is completely free. In LoL you can't buy RP with IP. In LoL RP is for when you want fast access to champions or you need a service.

  16. #36
    Free to Play is often muddied with cash grabs which bear no resemblance to what that is actually about.
    Free to Play is a game where there is no playable content denied to non-paying players, only cosmetic/convenience items.

  17. #37
    Because people are tired of paying a sub for a game that is no more fun than many without one. Wasting money is not fun.

  18. #38
    I am Murloc! Thelxi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    5,451
    Quote Originally Posted by That Feel View Post
    In GW2 you can buy the "cash" currency with in-game gold too. All the items are purely cosmetic or boosts. So except the price for the game itself you can say that GW2 is completely free.
    1. You can buy cash shop currency with in game gold
    2. You can buy in game currency with a credit card

    While many are charmed and content with the first point, I find the second one far more interesting.



    And even though I know I am beating a dead horse here..

    If I want a legendary or BiS gear in WoW, my options are:
    • Do the most challenging PvE content with 24 friends. Skill and brains necessary.
    • Do the most challenging PvE content with 9 friends. Skill and brains necessary.


    If I want a legendary or BiS gear in GW2, my options are:
    • Sink a couple months of hardcore grind into the game. No skill but some brains necessary.
    • Whip out my credit card and get everything in 5 minutes. Big wallet necessary.

  19. #39
    Moderator Sj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    5,419
    Free-to-play doesn't automatically mean low-quality. There are a lot of F2P and B2P games out there that are high-quality and engrossing. Give it a few years; when some of the currently sub-free games have a bit more content under their belts, communities will grow more and content pools will grow as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by lazymangaka View Post
    MMORPGs are like a relationship. WoW is a long-term relationship that I just got out of, so right now I'm not really looking for anything serious. F2P games let me fool around and have a good time without having to drop a bunch of cash up front or in the long term.
    Such a great simile.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by stellvia View Post

    Why is there so much support for F2P like it's the next greatest thing ever?
    This is getting a little tiring at this point.
    Just to clear things up. F2P is not the future. F2P is the most successful model of today. Look how many MMOs use P2P and how many use F2P. Look how many healthy P2P MMO are on the market and how many successful F2P MMOs are on there. Even single player games go in that direction.
    You might prefer Pay to play, but gamers talked with their MONEY and said that they want a more flexible system where THEY decide weather they want to spend their money(and where) or not.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •