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  1. #141
    Pit Lord Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Not Deathwing...Onyxia is more likely.
    EJL
    Onyxia ? And for which insane reason in the universe should be Onyxia instead of Deathwing? For the mess in vanilla? It's ridicolus.

    Spichora, sorry but your theory is pointless. I don't know if he will turn out be a traitor, and a traitor for WHO, but one thing is sure, the base on which you're building this supposed "treason" is just a violent butchering of the character, supposing reasons that are completely out of character. Completely.

    After the Purge clearly his feelings changed, but just in line with his brethren in Silvermoon, that were always distrustful of the Alliance and of the Kirin Tor.

    But before this damn purge, Aethas simply didn't had any reason for hate the High Elves. Even if the Silver Covenant had grudge and despised the Blood Elves and so the Sunreavers, he was the kind of guy that grin and bear it, make the best of a bad situation, keep a stiff upper lip, suck it up; he just wanted the blood elves to have their right place in Dalaran and do it with the best relationship possible with the Kirin Tor, not become the big boss of Dalaran, he was more than happy and proud of his place in the Council. He wouldn't made ANYTHING so stupid that could damage the relationship he was so desperatily mending with the Kirin Tor.

    As i said, i personally find the whole treasoning argument a bullshit, but, looking at it more objective...it is not impossible that could happens, but absolutely not with such motivations. It doesn't make sense. At all.
    You're also make too much speculation on Thalen. What's strange that he volunteered himself for Theramore? He was a spy. Spies need to be on the field for do their, well, spies's work.
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-05-13 at 05:01 PM.

  2. #142
    Dreadlord Spichora's Avatar
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    Then what was the reason of his treachery ? If he really is, and I suspect so ? Dont say that he was forced please. He could tell this to Lorthemar and not become the Traitor for his people and for Horde.


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  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spichora View Post
    Then what was the reason of his treachery ? If he really is, and I suspect so ? Dont say that he was forced please. He could tell this to Lorthemar and not become the Traitor for his people and for Horde.
    Personally i don't think he's a traitor. For me the sole speculation about the "uncomfortable" stuff is nonsense. But if he's really a traitor for whatever reason, he would NEVER do so for the sake of Garrosh. Of all the blood elves, he's the one that always despised Garrosh, he never liked to be in the Horde in the first place, and that was the reason for which he had such animosity with Rommath, that while not a "Horde lover", hated the Alliance and the Kirin Tor.

    Ironically Rommath makes much more sense as a traitor for Garrosh than Aethas.
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-05-12 at 10:36 PM.

  4. #144
    What if Garrosh threatened Aethas, saying if he didn't allow the use of Sunreaver resources that he would brand the Blood Elves under Lor'Themar traitors for having talks with the Alliance (lets assume Garrosh found out about this), and wipe out Silvermoon?

    Nothing Aethas can do could stop Garrosh in this scenario. If he spoke out to Lor'Themar it would be pointless, as he technically was in the wrong. There you go, a boss for SoO that is legitemately not evil, if anything they are good.

    This is of course assuming Aethas wasn't involved in Theramore, which I truely believe he was innocent in.

  5. #145
    well its obvious aethas helped garrosh out.

    how far aethas actually allied himself garrosh is still unclear and is to be seen in 5.4

  6. #146
    Obviously Aethas is the puppet-master pulling Garrosh' strings.
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  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    What if Garrosh threatened Aethas, saying if he didn't allow the use of Sunreaver resources that he would brand the Blood Elves under Lor'Themar traitors for having talks with the Alliance (lets assume Garrosh found out about this), and wipe out Silvermoon?

    Nothing Aethas can do could stop Garrosh in this scenario. If he spoke out to Lor'Themar it would be pointless, as he technically was in the wrong. There you go, a boss for SoO that is legitemately not evil, if anything they are good.

    This is of course assuming Aethas wasn't involved in Theramore, which I truely believe he was innocent in.
    This is a sligthly better scenario, but have some flaws. First, while it is not a solid prove, i found Aethas extremely calm and convincing when he answered to Jaina. And the things are two at this point : or he was completely honest about it, or he's an incredible liar, cool and calculating. The second is very unlikely since Aethas is very young for his race and even a little naive, not really a schemer; and if he's not, if he was threatened by Garrosh in such a terrible way, there was no chance that he could remains so calm.

    Plus, we saw his most true feelings when he became Sha-influnced in Silvermoon just some quests before the Purge, he said in his "altered" state that he was going to free the Blood Elves by the yoke of the Horde, and when he was in "himself", he even took the liberty of mocking Lor'themar for obeying Garrosh like a pet. I don't see all this fresh irony with someone threatened with the destruction of his homeland.
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-05-13 at 05:09 PM.

  8. #148
    Dreadlord Spichora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    What if Garrosh threatened Aethas, saying if he didn't allow the use of Sunreaver resources that he would brand the Blood Elves under Lor'Themar traitors for having talks with the Alliance (lets assume Garrosh found out about this), and wipe out Silvermoon?

    Nothing Aethas can do could stop Garrosh in this scenario. If he spoke out to Lor'Themar it would be pointless, as he technically was in the wrong. There you go, a boss for SoO that is legitemately not evil, if anything they are good.

    This is of course assuming Aethas wasn't involved in Theramore, which I truely believe he was innocent in.
    It was secret meeting. Not even Aethas or Jaina knew about it. How could Garrosh possibly know about the meetings? If he knew about that meetings there Would be Lorthemar lying in the pool of Water instead of VolJin in Dagger in Dark scenario.

    Garrosh would immediately execute Lorthemar.
    Last edited by Spichora; 2013-05-12 at 11:06 PM.


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  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaelsino View Post
    I don't doubt that he's a traitor at this point, but that's a pretty backwards and inconsistent reason for it.
    Honestly, I dont think the emote really proves much if anything at this point
    The dude was in an uncomfortable situation, thus he was uncomfortable
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    This is a sligthly better scenario, but have some flaws. First, while it is not a solid prove, i found Aethas extremely calm and convincing when he answered to Jaina. And the things are two at this point : or he was completely honest about it, or he's an incredible liar, cool and calculating. The second is very unilikely since Aethas is very young for his race and even a little naive, not really a schemer; and if he's not, if he was threatened by Garrosh in a such terrible way, there was no chance that he could remains so calm.

    Plus, we saw he's most true feelings when he became Sha-influnced in Silvermoon just some quests before the Purge, he said in his "altered" state that he was going to free the Blood Elves by the yoke of the Horde, and when he was in "himself", he even took the liberty of mocking Lor'themar for obeying Garrosh like a pet. I don't see all this fresh irony with someone threatened with the destruction of his homeland.
    Which is why as I stated before, it's more likely that Aethas DID know about the theft of the Divine Bell (so he wasn't completely innocent) but chose to wait until the time to use it as a power play and as a bargaining chip to Jaina and the Alliance, but Jaina traced the incident and made her play before Aethas did. High risk high reward play, but backfired on him.

    Aethas wanted to leave the Horde and has always been a Dalaran loyalist. He wouldn't openly cut ties or be in league with Garrosh after admitting under Sha possession that he wanted the Elves to leave the Horde and mocked Lor'themar for following the orders of Garrosh. Aethas saving the details and names to use as a way to negotiate the Sunreavers (at the least) to join the Alliance is plausible, especially when the talks about the Blood Elves joining the Alliance were secret talks between Varian and Lor'themar. Not even Jaina knew about it, much less Aethas.

    It will all be irrelevant anyways due to us removing Garrosh from power in the final raid, thus removing the primary reason why the Blood Elves would leave the Horde. It gives them a logical lore out to keep MMO balance. I don't expect much more to come from this. Aethas being turned into a Garrosh loyalist, traitor, or boss would just be bad writing as it would be ignoring events and Aethas's character entirely just for the sake of giving us a twist.

  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Honestly, I dont think the emote really proves much if anything at this point
    The dude was in an uncomfortable situation, thus he was uncomfortable
    Pretty much this. And the greatest reason for me is that Lor'themar claimed complete innocence of the Sunreavers in the face of Jaina, while Aethas knew, most probably discovered later, after the Purge, that Fanlyr in fact used Dalaran for steal the Bell. For this he felt a little...embarassed, for say it in a funny way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amorise View Post
    Which is why as I stated before, it's more likely that Aethas DID know about the theft of the Divine Bell (so he wasn't completely innocent) but chose to wait until the time to use it as a power play and as a bargaining chip to Jaina and the Alliance, but Jaina traced the incident and made her play before Aethas did. High risk high reward play, but backfired on him.

    Aethas wanted to leave the Horde and has always been a Dalaran loyalist. He wouldn't openly cut ties or be in league with Garrosh after admitting under Sha possession that he wanted the Elves to leave the Horde and mocked Lor'themar for following the orders of Garrosh. Aethas saving the details and names to use as a way to negotiate the Sunreavers (at the least) to join the Alliance is plausible, especially when the talks about the Blood Elves joining the Alliance were secret talks between Varian and Lor'themar. Not even Jaina knew about it, much less Aethas.

    It will all be irrelevant anyways due to us removing Garrosh from power in the final raid, thus removing the primary reason why the Blood Elves would leave the Horde. It gives them a logical lore out to keep MMO balance. I don't expect much more to come from this. Aethas being turned into a Garrosh loyalist, traitor, or boss would just be bad writing as it would be ignoring events and Aethas's character entirely just for the sake of giving us a twist.
    It's worth to be said that while the things said as "sha-drank" are absolutely honest, that remain stuff said in a very "particular" emotional state, completely unnatural, and indeed he immediately apologized with Rommath when returned "normal". What i'm trying to say is that regardless of what he said during the sha infestation, he would never had the guts for do anything, nor his feelings are so powerful in his natural state for make him try to do anything of what he said in practice.
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-05-12 at 11:37 PM.

  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    What i'm trying to say is that regardless of what he said during the sha infestation, he would never had the guts for do anything, nor his feelings are so powerful in his natural state for make him try to do anything of what he said in practice.
    Could be true
    Take Ishi for example. He is a Orc warrior through and through, with the Lok-tar-ogar thing and all.

    Yet when he was taken by Sha he expressed his doubt that the Horde can win the war, and fear of death. Things he would likely not say under "normal" conditions
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Could be true
    Take Ishi for example. He is a Orc warrior through and through, with the Lok-tar-ogar thing and all.

    Yet when he was taken by Sha he expressed his doubt that the Horde can win the war, and fear of death. Things he would likely not say under "normal" conditions
    The best line is "Why we must be slaves of honor, when we can slaughter the children of our enemies while they sleep?"

    Creepy. Highlitened violence on it's pure state.

    Funny thing is that Garrosh is pretty understanding, he's not offended at all, in fact seems he understand the particular state in which his warrior is, and just try to "help" him to fight his emotions.
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-05-12 at 11:51 PM.

  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    Creepy. Highlitened violence on it's pure state.
    My fav was the whole doubt/despair phase
    "Do you speak the truth Garrosh, Can the Horde truly survive another war. We have lost so much Warchief, our families dead, our friends lost, our homeland gone. How much more must our people suffer"

    Even those who cheered for war against the Alliance have their doubts
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  15. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Did he know before hand and didn't say anything? Did he find out afterwards and realise he could have stopped it?

    Another possibility - what if he is being coerced? Or covering for someone such as Rommath?
    The biggest red flag is why he wouldn't just admit what really happened to Theron IMO. Even if he helped Garrosh for whatever reason, I'm sure Theron would protect him and deal with the hand they've been dealt; they're already preparing to move against Garrosh on the IoT. But evidently he's keeping it to himself, and chances are it won't end well for him.

  16. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    My fav was the whole doubt/despair phase
    "Do you speak the truth Garrosh, Can the Horde truly survive another war. We have lost so much Warchief, our families dead, our friends lost, our homeland gone. How much more must our people suffer"

    Even those who cheered for war against the Alliance have their doubts
    Even the one that described utterly fear not of the death itself, but of the afterlife surprised me.

  17. #157
    clearly aethas was driven mad by (insert baddie here)

  18. #158
    What do we know about Aethas Sunreaver anyways? Maybe he's not even really a blood elf.

  19. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaelsino View Post
    The biggest red flag is why he wouldn't just admit what really happened to Theron IMO. Even if he helped Garrosh for whatever reason, I'm sure Theron would protect him and deal with the hand they've been dealt; they're already preparing to move against Garrosh on the IoT. But evidently he's keeping it to himself, and chances are it won't end well for him.
    Probably he doesn't have the guts to say all the truth to Lor'themar, which is bad, indeed. I never saw Aethas as someone particulary..."brave". But i just think that Aethas discovered the truth later about Fanlyr, nothing more.
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-05-13 at 12:15 AM.

  20. #160
    What if Aethas knew what he was doing all along, and actually meant to achieve this outcome? What if he wanted Jaina to take Dalaran to the Alliance side, and purposefully implicated the Sunreavers in Garrosh's scheme in order to make that happen? And now he's clamming up about it in order to maintain the integrity of his gambit.
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