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  1. #181
    The Patient SuperN's Avatar
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    Anyone who says that Rommath is a Garrosh loyalist doesn't understand his character. Rommath was extremely loyal to Kael'thas and when the time came to decide between his Prince and his People he chose the latter. Nothing else can make Rommath betray his people not power, prestige or promises for more then what he already is.

  2. #182
    Dreadlord Spichora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doombringer View Post
    It's quite possible that Aethas wanted to see the Divine Bell himself, and helped make the mission into Darnassus happen. He does not directly involve himself, but he was party to it. Now he feels guilty over what has happened, but unwilling to admit he had a hand in it.

    That's what I took away from the scene. It's one of those few moments where the writing is actually compelling, making you wonder about what is going through a character's mind given their actions.
    The Bell was already Dalaraans property. Thats why Jaina and Kirin Tor was there. They where guarding the Bell. Alliance had no interest in Bell and gave it to Dalaraan (thats the only explanation I find). So if Aethas wanted to see the Bell he should have just waited for few more hours.


    War is deception, a game played best from the shadows!

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Spichora View Post
    The Bell was already Dalaraans property. Thats why Jaina and Kirin Tor was there. They where guarding the Bell. Alliance had no interest in Bell and gave it to Dalaraan (thats the only explanation I find). So if Aethas wanted to see the Bell he should have just waited for few more hours.
    No, the Bell was Alliance property. If they gave it to the Kirin Tor, the Bell would have been moved to Dalaran.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

  4. #184
    Dreadlord Spichora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperN View Post
    Anyone who says that Rommath is a Garrosh loyalist doesn't understand his character. Rommath was extremely loyal to Kael'thas and when the time came to decide between his Prince and his People he chose the latter. Nothing else can make Rommath betray his people not power, prestige or promises for more then what he already is.
    Rommath ? Where we mentioned Rommath?


    War is deception, a game played best from the shadows!

  5. #185
    Warchief Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Ridiculous that a high ranking noble and the archbishop could meet? That Onyxia may have wanted him corrupted? I fail to see your objection.

    We don't know how, when, where or why Benedictus was corrupted. Onyxia, however, had access, means and opportunity enough to have him setup and working for the TH.
    What is completely ridicolus it is not Benedictus meeting "Katrana", but suppose that he became "corrupted" when he "looked in her eyes" from Vanilla. Furthemore, what utterly invalidate your theory, is that both Nefarian and Onyxia and even Deathwing before Cataclysm didn't had any kind of relationship with the Twilight's Hammer, the Hammer serve the Old Gods, not the Black Dragonflight, and Nefarian (with Onyxia) just followed their own goals and plans. If there was someone that the Hammer served during vanilla, that someone was Ragnaros, a loyal servant of the Old Gods, and Nefarian was in constant war with him for control of the Blackrock Mountain. Any supposed tie between Onyxia and the Twilight's Hammer is pure imagination.

    Plus, you think that Benedictus became "corrupted" by looking in the eyes of a "dragon", which is a bad interpretation. Benedictus just talked of "despair", he became desperate by looking in the eyes of this Dragon, not twist-minded. Which was the reason to feel "desperate" to look in the eyes of Katrana/Onyxia? People gives too much importance to that line, that is just a part of the reason of his betrayal, the most important that truly give the ultimate reason is the line that talks of his vision, something that if we saw it as he saw, we would understand him; he never became corrupted, the vision he had, combined with the utter desperation he had when Deathwing came to Stormwind, drove him mad. The corruption it is not even the theme of the Twilight's Hammer, they are not the Burning Legion. They are not corrupted, they are crazy nihilist zealots, they don't want to conquer the world or fall to corruption for gain power and "personal benefits", they just want to see the world burned and the universe be "nothing". For this they don't give a fuck about the Burning Legion or the promises of eternal life of the Scourge. They simply don't care.

    And if someone had some kind of attention of the Nodrassil Summit event in the 4.2, Fandral talks of the "Twilight Prophet", and the visions of this prophet was the whole reason for Fandral to be there. This is the reason for which Benedictus became so important in the Cult, and so the deo-facto leader when Cho'gall died.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Its not just that....the devs have dropped a couple of vague hints that do seem to indicate there is more going on.
    Which ones? Link them. I'm curious.
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-05-13 at 06:35 PM.

  6. #186
    Dreadlord Spichora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    No, the Bell was Alliance property. If they gave it to the Kirin Tor, the Bell would have been moved to Dalaran.
    Exactly thats why there was Jaina and Kirin Tor. By that time Dalaraan was neutral. And Jaina wouldnt go against Neutrality.


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  7. #187
    Warchief Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperN View Post
    Anyone who says that Rommath is a Garrosh loyalist doesn't understand his character. Rommath was extremely loyal to Kael'thas and when the time came to decide between his Prince and his People he chose the latter. Nothing else can make Rommath betray his people not power, prestige or promises for more then what he already is.
    Personally no Aethas and no Rommath is a Garrosh's loyalist. Simply, if we must randomly throw away a character and making him a non-sense Garrosh's goon, Rommath compared to Aethas have a little but very LITTLE more sense.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Sky High Shark View Post
    maybe, but I always got the feeling the bloodelves see the horde the same way the Undead do, where its out of convince, combined with the fact that they at least HAD an option to join the other team if they so desired.
    thats EXACTLY how they view the horde, technically the blood elves werent supposed to join the horde the deal was they would support the horde and fight for them until they were able to go to outland and live with kael'thas where they would build a new life in a land "so full of magic the very air is filled with it"

    when they got there they found out of course that outland wasnt this heaven on earth filled with magic and then blizzard did something horrible and ruined kael'thas.

    so it ended up being a kind of "guess were stuck here" kind of thing
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Spichora View Post
    Exactly thats why there was Jaina and Kirin Tor. By that time Dalaraan was neutral. And Jaina wouldnt go against Neutrality.
    Guarding a powerful weapon that belongs to 1 side, in 1 of their cities... You have a strange definition of neutrality.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    What is completely ridicolus it is not Benedictus meeting "Katrana", but suppose that he became "corrupted" when he "looked in her eyes" from Vanilla. Furthemore, what utterly invalidate your theory, is that both Nefarian and Onyxia and even Deathwing before Cataclysm didn't had any kind of relationship with the Twilight's Hammer, the Hammer serve the Old Gods, not the Black Dragonflight, and Nefarian (with Onyxia) just followed their own goals and plans. If there was someone that the Hammer served during vanilla, that someone was Ragnaros, a loyal servant of the Old Gods, and Nefarian was in constant war with him for control of the Blackrock Mountain. Any supposed tie between Onyxia and the Twilight's Hammer is pure imagination.

    Plus, you think that Benedictus became "corrupted" by looking in the eyes of a "dragon", which is a bad interpretation. Benedictus just talked of "despair", he became desperate by looking in the eyes of this Dragon, not twist-minded. Which was the reason to feel "desperate" to look in the eyes of Katrana/Onyxia? People gives too much importance to that line, that is just a part of the reason of his betrayal, the most important that truly give the ultimate reason is the line that talks of his vision, something that if we saw it as he saw, we would understand him; he never became corrupted, the vision he had, combined with the utter desperation he had when Deathwing came to Stormwind, drove him mad. The corruption it is not even the theme of the Twilight's Hammer, it is not the Burning Legion.
    And if someone had some kind of attention of Nodrassil Summit even in the 4.2, Fandral talks of the "Twilight Prophet", and the visions of this prophet was the whole reason for Fandral to be there. This is the reason for which Benedictus became so important in the Cult, and so the deo-facto leader when Cho'gall died.



    Which ones? Link them. I'm curious.
    ummm you do know that nefarian was working WITH the twilights hammer in blackrock right? along with rangaros minions. they were fighting the DARK IRONS for control of the mountain and were trying to convert them and they nearly succeeded since the dark irons went int oa civil war over whether or not to support the twilights hammer.

    also deathwing and all the blackdragons have been serving the old gods since deathwing was corrupted by them.

    the black dragons the twilights hammer the old gods the fire elementals they were all working with eachother
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  11. #191
    Dreadlord Spichora's Avatar
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    Still I think Aethas had a big plans for Dalaraan. We dont even know who he really is !

    Why they have removed Halduron anyways ! Isnt war with Zul'Aman Trolls over? I dont trust that Aethas ! I love blood elf people and Characters generally and their lore but that Aethas .... Theres something suspicious about that blood elf.

    (Take your time participating in this Thread Please !!)


    War is deception, a game played best from the shadows!

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Guarding a powerful weapon that belongs to 1 side, in 1 of their cities... You have a strange definition of neutrality.
    Agreed. Jaina has never been neutral. She used to be pro-peace, but never neutral. People just like to complain that anyone not bathing in the opposite side's blood is neutral.

  13. #193
    Stood in the Fire Shefu's Avatar
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    You mean to tell me that the most magically inclined playable race in Azeroth wouldn't be able to sniff out a traitor, if Aethas was one? Even if this indeed were true, it would be stupid on Blizzard's part. It is possible, I am just pointing out why it would be futile as a plot.

  14. #194
    Dreadlord Spichora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Guarding a powerful weapon that belongs to 1 side, in 1 of their cities... You have a strange definition of neutrality.
    What if Dalaraan was taking the Artifact when they attacked it? It is not known. But one is obvious. Dalaraan had some interests in this artifact because They arrived in Darnassus either to guard it or Take it. I dont think Dalaraan would go against its neutrality. Jaina hates Garrosh but she knew her job very well. She is not some start up apprentice to make that HUGE mistake and side with Alliance, once more Ill say Dalaraan was neutral back than.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-13 at 07:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Shefu View Post
    You mean to tell me that the most magically inclined playable race in Azeroth wouldn't be able to sniff out a traitor, if Aethas was one? Even if this indeed were true, it would be stupid on Blizzard's part. It is possible, I am just pointing out why it would be futile as a plot.
    Aethas is quite powerful mage too so he could hide his Treachery. But not emotionally.


    War is deception, a game played best from the shadows!

  15. #195
    Warchief Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    ummm you do know that nefarian was working WITH the twilights hammer in blackrock right? along with rangaros minions. they were fighting the DARK IRONS for control of the mountain and were trying to convert them and they nearly succeeded since the dark irons went int oa civil war over whether or not to support the twilights hammer.

    also deathwing and all the blackdragons have been serving the old gods since deathwing was corrupted by them.

    the black dragons the twilights hammer the old gods the fire elementals they were all working with eachother
    Completely messed up.

    Seriously, you think that Ragnaros and Nefarian, and so the Blackrock orcs and the Twilight's Hammer were all united against the poor Dark Iron dwarves? What?

    The Dark Irons were under the complete influence of Ragnaros, the Blackrock orcs served Nefarian, and everyone here used their minions against one another for take control of the Mountain.

  16. #196
    Scarab Lord ViridianWRA's Avatar
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    The simple fact is that there are too many Blood Elf leaders, and you can't have an all-orc raid.

    Lor'themar Theron, Aethas Sunreaver, Grand Magister Rommath, Halduron Brightwing--- Blood Elves are seeming to have more a council than a solid leadership.

    Sunreavers betray the Blood Elves as a whole, Blood Elf enemies in Siege of Orgrimmar. I could see similar things happening with factions of other races. A raid where every enemy was an Orc would get pretty bland quickly.

    You mean I have room for text now?

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Spichora View Post
    What if Dalaraan was taking the Artifact when they attacked it? It is not known. But one is obvious. Dalaraan had some interests in this artifact because They arrived in Darnassus either to guard it or Take it. I dont think Dalaraan would go against its neutrality. Jaina hates Garrosh but she knew her job very well. She is not some start up apprentice to make that HUGE mistake and side with Alliance, once more Ill say Dalaraan was neutral back than.
    Umm... No. Jaina warded the Bell and was actively guarding it against multiple intruders. If she was taking it to Dalaran, it would have been there in minutes. It hardly took the Silvermoon mages loyal to Garrosh any time at all to move the Bell from Darnasus, through Dalaran, and into Silvermoon.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
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  18. #198
    Warchief Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    thats EXACTLY how they view the horde, technically the blood elves werent supposed to join the horde the deal was they would support the horde and fight for them until they were able to go to outland and live with kael'thas where they would build a new life in a land "so full of magic the very air is filled with it"

    when they got there they found out of course that outland wasnt this heaven on earth filled with magic and then blizzard did something horrible and ruined kael'thas.

    so it ended up being a kind of "guess were stuck here" kind of thing
    "Technically" doesn't mean nothing. They joined the Horde and the Horde helped them, and continue to help them with the Forsaken that support them against the Scourge in their own homeland, and they are supposed to honor the help they received. They only thought about leaving it because of Garrosh and his attitude with them, since Lor'themar saw, in the Garrosh's Horde, the same "bigotry" of the Alliance, and, at this point, between the "two evils", the Alliance maybe was better. But then Jaina ass-raped the Sunreavers and kicked them from Dalaran in a very violent way, so Lor'themar saw them again as a bunch of bigoted that just "faked" a hollow neutrality in Dalaran. So the new solution is get rid of Garrosh, in other words the source of the actual Horde problems and "bigotry".

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-13 at 06:57 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ViridianCC View Post
    The simple fact is that there are too many Blood Elf leaders, and you can't have an all-orc raid.

    Lor'themar Theron, Aethas Sunreaver, Grand Magister Rommath, Halduron Brightwing--- Blood Elves are seeming to have more a council than a solid leadership.

    Sunreavers betray the Blood Elves as a whole, Blood Elf enemies in Siege of Orgrimmar. I could see similar things happening with factions of other races. A raid where every enemy was an Orc would get pretty bland quickly.
    But lorewise orcs and orcs alone will make sense in SoO, because they and they alone are building up that zealot supremacist attitude, an attitude that ofcourse kicks in the mouth all the other races. Don't worry, Garrosh is doing a lot of mess under Orgrimmar, there will be a lot of stuff, not just "orcs".

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-13 at 07:50 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Spichora View Post
    What if Dalaraan was taking the Artifact when they attacked it? It is not known. But one is obvious. Dalaraan had some interests in this artifact because They arrived in Darnassus either to guard it or Take it. I dont think Dalaraan would go against its neutrality. Jaina hates Garrosh but she knew her job very well. She is not some start up apprentice to make that HUGE mistake and side with Alliance, once more Ill say Dalaraan was neutral back than.
    Another reason for which i think the Kirin Tor are a bunch of idiots, or hypocrities, is the choose of Jaina as their leader. WTF ?

    After all she went throught with the whole tragedy of Theramore, utterly destroyed by Garrosh's mana bomb, with anyone living there died in a bad manner and betrayed by a Sunreaver spy, you vote her as leader of your supposed "neutral" city? And Aethas voted her too, further proving that the boy is incredibly naive.
    How can you expect her doing to do the right choices as a "neutral" leader? She simply can't. It's impossible. She have too much hatred in her heart for Garrosh.

    For this she break her supposed neutrality in the same way the Sunreavers did with the whole Divine Bell matter, he had a compulsive fear that Garrosh was going to do something huge like the bombing of Theramore. But Fanlyr and "his" Sunreavers used Dalaran itself, so let's say they did something a little worse.

    Rhonin, then Jaina. Modera and company just love to hide their old asses in the shadows of their leader and take no responsibility to anything.

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