[5.3] Flameglow is getting nerfed... in a STUPID way.

[Polarthief]

That is NOT how soul link works.

All damage is split between pet and Master. AoEs deal only 10% damage to pets, so the damage to both is 5% of original. All damage Master takes is halved; the missing half goes to the pet.

Is that not how it works?

Doesn't even matter. Sac Pac is vastly superior. 1m cooldown for a 570k+ bubble. Ice Barrier is a 25s cooldown for a 100-120k bubble. On top of that, they have Soul Leech which gives them plenty of absorbs.

[Magpai]

All damage is split between pet and Master. AoEs deal only 10% damage to pets, so the damage to both is 5% of original. All damage Master takes is halved; the missing half goes to the pet.

Is that not how it works?

Doesn't even matter. Sac Pac is vastly superior. 1m cooldown for a 570k+ bubble. Ice Barrier is a 25s cooldown for a 100-120k bubble. On top of that, they have Soul Leech which gives them plenty of absorbs.

It isn't. They're not split 50/50. It's dependent on what % you and your pet are at. If you have a ton of health and your pet is low, you'll take a far larger brunt of it. You'll die at the exact same time, generally. It's not even that useful, it's basically like giving you more max health but two targets to take damage.

Also note that comparing a tier of warlock talents to a tier of mage talents is a fairly senseless and meaningless comparison. You have to look at the whole package.

[Polarthief]

It isn't. They're not split 50/50. It's dependent on what % you and your pet are at. If you have a ton of health and your pet is low, you'll take a far larger brunt of it. You'll die at the exact same time, generally. It's not even that useful, it's basically like giving you more max health but two targets to take damage.

Also note that comparing a tier of warlock talents to a tier of mage talents is a fairly senseless and meaningless comparison. You have to look at the whole package.

Fair enough, even though NO ONE takes it anyways. The tooltip is completely different and I was under a different impression. My bad on that one point.

Regardless, I'm not necessarily comparing talents. If you want, I'll throw in the utility, RIDICULOUS damage reduction, self healing, and all the other shit they have.

Whole package: Warlock flat out destroys Mages in PvE, and I don't think there's a single person who knows about both Warlocks AND Mages that would disagree.

[mrgreenthump]

If memory serves, the idea was roughly doubling it to 35-40% SP, as has been suggested in this thread and many before it, so that'd be in the 12-15k range. At that point we'd have a flat 15% reduction against most hits until we started getting into ~85k single hits. That's still really damned strong, though we have to give up a defensive CD to get it. But there's reason enough to take it over IB against hard hitters still. They could potentially do that and let the absorb work with battle fatigue/PVP power, which would nerf the PVP side pretty hard while letting it be amazing in PVE, but it's still a passive. It shouldn't be better than the other two simply because it's a passive and always on.

85k is quite low in heroic raids.. but yes you would be right, every raider would pick it. Cause we direly need it atm.


I would more gladly have FG buffed for PvE and nerfed for PvE and made baseline and give us a 3rd shield that works differently than IB or TS

[ssviolett]

i dont think flameglow will be viable in pve enviroment anyways

Was it? Ice Barrier or Temporal Shield in some situations was and is much much better. Barrier can save your life on some strong hit, Shield can outheal heavy aoe damage, but how small absorb from Flameglow could help? Useless talent become even more useless.

[Deleted]

back to the subject.

At 35k spell power,
Ice Barrier -- 120,080 damages -- 4803.2 HPS
Flame glow (20%) -- 7,000 damages of 23,333
Flame glow (15%) -- 5,250 damages of 17,500

First conclusion : it will be capped more easily.

In raw damage's absorb :
It takes 17.2 damage's event (> 23.3k) for FG(20%) to absorb the same amount than IB.
It takes 22.9 damage's event (> 17.5k) for FG(15%) to absorb the same amount than IB.

In HPS equivalent :
FG(20%) need 0.69 damage's event by second to provide the same HPS than IB (4803.2/7000).
FG(15%) need 0.92 damage's event by second to provide the same HPS than IB (4803.2/5250).


For a DOT that tick every second, FG will absorb the same amount than IB (25s) in 17.25s (at 20%) and 23s (at 15%). 25s*0.69 and 25s*0.92.

In PVE, FG (20%) was superior to IB if a channel's damage (ie Jin'rokh/Megaera) do damage for more than 17.25s. but it will be increase to 23s at 15%.
It make it completely useless !!!!

In PvP, FG (15%) is still better than IB against DoT but less than before.

I would have prefer that they reduce the damage's cap. For example, with a 15% cap, the damage need to do more than 46.6k for being capped and a 23.3k DOT will only be reduced by 3500. A reduced cap to 22.5% will result in only absorbing 5250 damage against at 23.3k spell ....

Conclusion : reducing the cap to 22.5% will result in the same PvP nerf but won't impact PvE.
And there's always the possibility to add a debuff against player like bomb.

[Magpai]

Fair enough, even though NO ONE takes it anyways. The tooltip is completely different and I was under a different impression. My bad on that one point.

Eh, split doesn't necessarily mean split evenly. The tooltip could be clearer, but I don't see how how without taking up too much space.

Regardless, I'm not necessarily comparing talents. If you want, I'll throw in the utility, RIDICULOUS damage reduction, self healing, and all the other shit they have.

Whole package: Warlock flat out destroys Mages in PvE, and I don't think there's a single person who knows about both Warlocks AND Mages that would disagree.

I don't know that much about mages anymore, but in terms of survivability I would probably agree. I'm almost always the last one to die on my warlock in a wipe.

---------- Post added 2013-05-14 at 10:16 AM ----------

Was it? Ice Barrier or Temporal Shield in some situations was and is much much better. Barrier can save your life on some strong hit, Shield can outheal heavy aoe damage, but how small absorb from Flameglow could help? Useless talent become even more useless.

Because it's passive and constant, as opposed to ice barrier and temporal shield, which you have to watch the cooldown and use strategically (especially the shield). Flameglow you just click the talent and never have to think about it again.

[mrgreenthump]

Because it's passive and constant, as opposed to ice barrier and temporal shield, which you have to watch the cooldown and use strategically (especially the shield). Flameglow you just click the talent and never have to think about it again.

That is quite true, but it doesnt remove the fact that we need something like it atm, and the current iteration is just a joke in PvE and they are even nerfing that. Maybe FG shouldn't be a talent at all? But guess that would be a problem in pvp.

[Alexand3r]

They should just remove it and add a flat 20 - 15% damage reduction passive ability.
Maybe a better talent would be something that revolves around our Armour spells or that combines their defensive effects.

Elemental Armour: Your Armour spells share their defensive effects. In addition, all spell damage taken is reduced by 10% and all physical damage taken is reduced by an additional 4%.

More interesting than Flameglow, in my humble opinion.

[mrgreenthump]

20% would be an overkill, but 10% maybe 12,5% overall reduction, would be something we really need atm

[Polarthief]

Elemental Armour: Your Armour spells share their defensive effects. In addition, all spell damage taken is reduced by 10% and all physical damage taken is reduced by an additional 4%.

More interesting than Flameglow, in my humble opinion.

Seems OP for PvP and really good for PvE.

My only question is does using Mage Armor on Primordius lower the duration of the mutations?

[Verain]

I think it's absurd to have a talent that defends well against dual wielders really well, even if it also nerfs dots. I also don't get why, as D has pointed out, the "fix" manages to not even address the issue. Clearly the cap would need to shrink.

I think the talent was poorly thought out from the get-go. Things like rogue autoattacks and poisons are the weakest tools in pvp, and should not be punished further. The talent is 100% passive, which seems likely too strong, and on top of that has a name that requires an animation, which they simply don't provide. I could buy "Ironskin" or something, but if your name is "Flameglow", you need either flames, or a glow, or both of those things.

I believe that talents are more miss than hit. I would be comfortable deleting about half the tiers in the game, and I believe it would improve the game (with appropriate baseline, spec ties, and deletion). Some classes, such as druid, clearly had more effort put into balancing the tiers, while others, such as rogue, are largely halfassed. Then some, such as mages and hunters, got dps moves stuck in there, with ended up providing essentially no choice (or a choice tied to spec).

Talents suck.

[mrgreenthump]

I believe that talents are more miss than hit. I would be comfortable deleting about half the tiers in the game, and I believe it would improve the game (with appropriate baseline, spec ties, and deletion). Some classes, such as druid, clearly had more effort put into balancing the tiers, while others, such as rogue, are largely halfassed. Then some, such as mages and hunters, got dps moves stuck in there, with ended up providing essentially no choice (or a choice tied to spec).

Talents suck.

You don't say? As a fire mage, you really only change your shield from IB to TS and your Bombs depending if there is AoE or not.

Though Glyphs for PvE are even worse^^

[Summer]

You don't say? As a fire mage, you really only change your shield from IB to TS and your Bombs depending if there is AoE or not.

Though Glyphs for PvE are even worse^^

?

Usually I want Cauterize for derp protection. But on Jin HM (ionization) and Council HM (frostbite) I want Coldsnap. On Meg HM I really want Greater Invis. And ofc swapping ice barrier and temporal shield all the time as you say. The choice between cauterize / cold snap / greater invis is a really interesting one imo, having a good time figuring out what to take for our remaining progression

The bombs I don't switch tho :P Nether tempest does it all atm though maybe next patch there'll be more swapping again.

As for glyphs, I'll take molten armor if there is physical aoe dmg, ice block for the fights I have cold snap for when I can, cone of cold for Tortos, evocation when there's space for it, invis for meg...

I actually like a lot of the talents / glyphs quite well, wish I could take blazing speed more often but as fire PoM just seems too much of a must. The last tier talents are idiotic ofc but I guess Blizz has given up on those and hopefully they'll be gone in next expansion :P

[Polarthief]

You don't say? As a fire mage, you really only change your shield from IB to TS and your Bombs depending if there is AoE or not.

Though Glyphs for PvE are even worse^^

You NEVER change Bombs as Fire, regardless of how many targets there are.

IB and TS is just personal preference, as is Cauterize and G Invis.

Also, yeah, Glyphs are garbage for Mages. Frost has some small level of choice, Fire is set-in-stone, and Arcane doesn't even get any real choice. It's pathetic.

[ssviolett]

Because it's passive and constant, as opposed to ice barrier and temporal shield, which you have to watch the cooldown and use strategically (especially the shield). Flameglow you just click the talent and never have to think about it again.

I agree. But if you play on better level than LFR your goal to maximise survivability\dps\etc, so you shouldnt think about less buttons to push.

---------- Post added 2013-05-15 at 06:38 AM ----------

Elemental Armour: Your Armour spells share their defensive effects. In addition, all spell damage taken is reduced by 10% and all physical damage taken is reduced by an additional 4%.

I like this idea - especially about mixing defensive armor effects together. But since this ability is passive it would be hard to balance, taking into account how good and useful IB and TS are. Blizzard failed with FG ... again.

[Polarthief]

I like this idea - especially about mixing defensive armor effects together. But since this ability is passive it would be hard to balance, taking into account how good and useful IB and TS are. Blizzard failed with FG ... again.

Which is funny because I called how epicly failure it was when it first came out (before they even said the 20% coeff). Now they're nerfing shit to even worse shit.

Which is even more funny, because IW (which is shit) is being nerfed even further as well.

(All 'opinions' of mine are PvE-based)

[Verain]

For what it is worth, I believe the mage tier 90 is the worst tier of talents in game. A hard won prize, to be sure. It's basically "which new mechanic do you want to bring to the fight" in PvE, and in PvP it becomes "you take IW, because the others are outright absurd in PvP".