1. #1

    T14 H - difficulty nowadays?

    Hi,
    our guild are fairly progressed in T15 (1/13 HC) and we raid three nights a week. On saturdays in cata we used to have a tradition of 'old content runs' where we cleared the old heroic modes that we missed out in the previous tiers, e.g clearing FL heroic in 4.3 for fun.

    We didn't finish T14 heroic (5/6 Heroic), and was wondering how easier it would be now. We have a fairly solid comp and can switch around if needed, with an average ilvl of 515.

    - WotE HC is the only boss we miss on MSV, how easy would it be now? Any derived tactics for adds with the extra ilvl or is it just the same?

    - How easy would HoF/ToES HC be now? I assume that blade/wind lord, lei shi etc would be fairly easy now but what about the others?

    Extra info can be provided if needed. Thanks!

  2. #2
    High Overlord Wessrow's Avatar
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    All bosses in HoF with the exception of Amber Shaper are with current gear and meta gems more or less faceroll. You might struggle a bit dancing on Imperial Vizier but dps requirements are all a non issue. Same goes for the bosses in ToES where, if you have good geared healers and strong orb damage Tsulong can be considered the easiest one since it's a really straight forward fight without too much RNG involved.

    As for Will of the Emperor, if you have a rogue have him soak all the sparks and you're golden. If you have 2 rogues it gets even easier but having some other back up soakers works too. Just kill adds following Courage > Rages > Strength and have the rogue run around and soak the sparks floating about. You can make his job easier by killing the rages as stacked as possible and perhaps have someone else soak the courages.
    After that just pop Blood Lust during the first "pause" where the rages stop spawning for a bit and just nuke the boss. Repeat until dead, it's really not hard.

  3. #3
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cenxo View Post
    We didn't finish T14 heroic (5/6 Heroic), and was wondering how easier it would be now. We have a fairly solid comp and can switch around if needed, with an average ilvl of 515.
    Don't forget that the T14 heroics were also nerfed by 10% both health and damage. They are all significantly easier than before even without the extra T15 item level.

    Quote Originally Posted by cenxo View Post
    WotE HC is the only boss we miss on MSV, how easy would it be now? Any derived tactics for adds with the extra ilvl or is it just the same?
    It's mostly the same tactic, however, the sparks are relatively more forgiving (10% less damage on soakers, if you are using rogues for instance), and you have a large amount of boss uptime making the fight go significantly faster.

    Quote Originally Posted by cenxo View Post
    How easy would HoF/ToES HC be now? I assume that blade/wind lord, lei shi etc would be fairly easy now but what about the others?
    Blade Lord, Wind Lord, and Lei Shi were easy before the nerf and gear, now they would be a joke. Same goes for most of Terrace and Heart. There's still some execution needed on Amber-Shaper and Sha for instance but again it's significantly easier and more forgiving at this point

  4. #4
    Bloodsail Admiral Chrispotter's Avatar
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    If you didnt have much progress on sha of fear pre nerf, it wil still take you a fair few wipes until you will kill it, although it will definently be 10 times easier than it used to be.
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  5. #5
    Did a H ToES pug like a month ago with mostly people who hadn't done it on Openraid - avg ilvl was 510-515

    2 shot H Protectors
    3 shot H Tsulong
    2 shot H Lei Shi
    10-15 pulls for H Sha

  6. #6
    You don't even need soakers for H WoTE anymore. Just move away from the sparks and have ranged nuke them down.

    H Amber Shaper is still the most mechanically challenging fight but keeping stacks on the boss in P2 is pretty much optional now. H Empress is probably easier than H Amber Shaper if you use 4 healers.

    The only challenging parts about H Sha are having decent ball tossing and staying awake through P2 to avoid waterspout.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by NeverStop View Post
    You don't even need soakers for H WoTE anymore. Just move away from the sparks and have ranged nuke them down.
    Is this actually viable? Say, if we have 4 ranged 2 melee 2 tanks 2 heals?

  8. #8
    Haha lol I love how people say how heroic raids are a joke. Maybe next expansion when people do transmog runs to them.

    That's exactly like someone who bench presses 200kg saying 150kg is a joke, while most people can't probably do 70kg.
    Wh-what are you doing here!? G-go away!
    I don't want to see you anymore!
    Stay away from me!
    That's what Shi said.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by cenxo View Post
    Is this actually viable? Say, if we have 4 ranged 2 melee 2 tanks 2 heals?
    It's viable for raids with amazing DPS. Realistically, it's not viable for your average group. You can kill most sparks until the bosses come out, but at that point you need to be soaking.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalukki View Post
    Haha lol I love how people say how heroic raids are a joke. Maybe next expansion when people do transmog runs to them.

    That's exactly like someone who bench presses 200kg saying 150kg is a joke, while most people can't probably do 70kg.
    heroic raids are a joke from last tier when you can overgear them at 520+ ilvl, cept mechanics you cant power through

  11. #11
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalukki View Post
    Haha lol I love how people say how heroic raids are a joke. Maybe next expansion when people do transmog runs to them.
    I'm basing what I'm saying on the OP's situation (able to clear 5/16 heroics when they were current - before 10% nerf, with current gear), not on your situation (or any other random reader). I did not say every fight would be a joke, but many would be.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by cenxo View Post
    Is this actually viable? Say, if we have 4 ranged 2 melee 2 tanks 2 heals?

    it was possible to deal with the balls this way even last tier

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by kuku2 View Post
    It's viable for raids with amazing DPS. Realistically, it's not viable for your average group. You can kill most sparks until the bosses come out, but at that point you need to be soaking.
    I disagree with the "need amazing DPS" comment. I've done this fight on OpenRaid a couple times, with groups who were in 500-510 iLvl gear and 5-8 of them never having killed heroic Will, and the killing sparks was FAR easier than soaking. It really is a LOT simpler and lets you brute-force it (where brute-force == in LFR & VP gear from T15).

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalukki View Post
    Haha lol I love how people say how heroic raids are a joke. Maybe next expansion when people do transmog runs to them.

    That's exactly like someone who bench presses 200kg saying 150kg is a joke, while most people can't probably do 70kg.
    Considering that when these raids were relevant, the highest dps was *maybe* 100k single target (not even close for MSV, more like 60k). 15 ilvls later, pushing 150k+. Took a group of ALTS and trade chat pugs into heroic MSV two weeks ago. one shot everything up to spirit kings (2 pulls) and then killing heroic will in 4 pulls. They are incredibly faceroll now as long as you have one person telling the entire raid what to do if you out gear it by 20 something ilvls (someone that is 520 ilvl out gears heroic MSV's intended difficulty by a good 40 ilvls.)


    Anyway... OPs question.

    1) Will is easy. Nuke the orbs when they spawn, the bosses have so little health now that you'll beat the enrage almost just through tank dps. Killed it in the first "lul" phase two weeks ago.

    2) HoF, ambershaper is still a pain in the ass unless you just have the dps to completly brute force it and skip the entire monstrosity phase pretty much (by skip I mean just kill him so fast that the learning curve of interrupting him is irrelevant). I *assume* empress is easy (haven't gotten to her yet in our group that goes and does the old content) since she was primarily just a gear check.

    3) ToES. Protectors, just learn how the adds work, with enough gear you'll kill the boss fast enough that you won't ever worry about over stacking on people. Tsulong, made irrelevant by gear really. Just make sure to not kill the large add in day phase too fast so that the breath hits the little adds he spawns, not him, need to have someone AoE and CC these so they don't spam fears. Lei shi, could probably kill her w/o the stacking mechanic now tbh. Heroic sha, learn the ball throwing and you'll kill it. My group had a 15% wipe on it after 15 pulls, would have been a kill if our warriors lock out hadn't fucked up and forced him to come in on his undergeared ele shaman.
    Last edited by britishbubba; 2013-05-13 at 07:24 PM.

  15. #15
    Decided we're going to try and do the killing orbs strat, seems pretty doable! People can easily soak if we have any problems anyway. HoF we'll probably try next week, aiming for at least 3 bosses.

  16. #16
    We did not get the chance to do the rest of the heroics pre ToT

    We managed 6/6hc 5/6hc 1/6hc .... with good practice on shekzeer and protectors.

    However, after going back, we literally 2 healed Shekzeer, with about 6 or 7 attempts before she was down with about 6 brand new members of our guild.
    We 2 shot protectors, and changed tactic to make Regail the last kill, which was just roflstomped.

    Tsulong was about 4 or 5 shot, with zero experience on the fight whatsoever.. altho we were around 10seconds from bezerk haha.
    Sha we have had 1/2 a night on it, and did an 11% wipe.

    The difficulty with the nerfs, and the obvious dps/hps increase due to gear made it incredibly easy. If you have done it previously, it will be like going into molten core and rofling through it, if you have not, it will take a bit of practice on some fights (sha mainly, rest are brute force and ignorance)

    Oh yea, lei shi, was super easy before nerf, now u can completely IGNORE STACKS of the damage debuff and kill it as if it were in normal.

  17. #17
    hi, we 2 shot emperor using the killing sparks strategy - it was rather trivial, haha!

    Trying terrace next week and aiming for 3/4, i read the advice above and it was helpful but is there anything else I should know?

  18. #18
    Bloodsail Admiral rashen's Avatar
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    With a group with an item level of 515-520 on average tier 14 heroic is purely an executional challenge, all dps requirements should be overgeared by a good margin at that point along with a 10% nerf since 5.0 and 5.1

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