Looking for advice on my first build

[Bluesparkks]

Video/audio editing/recording/mastering, and streaming pretty much.

There are synthetic things too that benefit from hyperthreading (like zipping large files) but.. that's just for benchmarks. No real world use. I think hyperthreading also benefits things like Folding, but has no practical value for gaming/performance use.

at this point in time, folding@home, BF3 (just a little), streaming, rendering of video/pictures/benchmarks

Got it. I would like to run a fullscreen game at max settings with a video on the other monitor (not necessarily 720p) with no loss in performance, but that's completely unnecessary, and not something I'd be willing to shell out too much more for.

I really don't expect games to benefit much from mutlicore/multithread within the lifespan of your CPU (3-4 years). And even if they did, the benefit would be minimal. Not worth the $100.

I was hoping for more like 5-6 years, actually. >.<

[chazus]

I was hoping for more like 5-6 years, actually. >.<

It's certainly possible. However no matter how much money you throw at a computer, software and technology keeps advancing. It's pretty difficult to 'future proof' a system after the $1000 mark. Chances are, your CPU will likely still be pretty good in 5 years, but a GPU upgrade may be in the works, as it'll start looking long in the tooth.

Will your system be a dinosaur in 5 years? No. Will it possibly struggle with newer MMOs or something? Maybe. It depends on what your tolerance for frames are. It also depends on what game technology does.

Long story short, I wouldn't put more money into it with the intent to make it 'last longer'. You'll either decide you need to upgrade in 4 years... or not!

[Deleted]

5-6 years is a very long time for hardware to remain relevant in the gaming segment. (only the 8800 or 9800? cards did that iirc)

[Bluesparkks]

By the way, thanks for all the advice, it's been really helpful/informative.

So I take it even in 3-4 years we're not expecting that many games(/programs) to seriously take advantage of hyperthreading?

It's certainly possible. However no matter how much money you throw at a computer, software and technology keeps advancing. It's pretty difficult to 'future proof' a system after the $1000 mark. Chances are, your CPU will likely still be pretty good in 5 years, but a GPU upgrade may be in the works, as it'll start looking long in the tooth.

Will your system be a dinosaur in 5 years? No. Will it possibly struggle with newer MMOs or something? Maybe. It depends on what your tolerance for frames are. It also depends on what game technology does.

Long story short, I wouldn't put more money into it with the intent to make it 'last longer'. You'll either decide you need to upgrade in 4 years... or not!

I mean the core as a whole. I totally get that tech advances insanely quickly and that a sizeable upgrade here and there is to be expected. I just don't want several parts failing quickly or something--in essence, I guess, I don't want to have to replace the whole thing (or 2-3 parts simultaneously). Upgrading GPU or RAM, though? To be expected if I want it to maintain decent performance relative to whatever the technology at that time is capable of.

[Deleted]

the answer to that lies in the next gen of consoles being released by the end of this year.
it would only be logical since the new consoles are made with multithreaded games that this also applies for the pc gaming.
however pc gaming has/is been/being screwed before by such reasoning. (looking at you shitty console ports for 9/10 games)

[chazus]

I just don't want several parts failing quickly or something--in essence, I guess, I don't want to have to replace the whole thing (or 2-3 parts simultaneously). Upgrading GPU or RAM, though?

Here's my take on it, because all of this is technically speculation. Something might happen next year that makes everything everyone owns now obsolete and crap. Or maybe development sucks, and these systems we have now are still kicking butt at 80% performance 5 years from now. It's... hard to tell.

THAT said...

CPU - The 3570K is an -extremely- powerful CPU, all things considered. I usually buy middle like CPUs in the i5-3350 area. And that has always lasted me 3 years easily. My 3570K, overclocked, I expect to last me 4 years at least, to play enjoyably. If I come on hard times, it will last 6 years without too much trouble.

RAM - Assuming you don't upgrade the system itself, RAM can be one of two things. 1) You don't need more, or 2) If you need more, RAM is incredibly cheap... So not really a concern. Another 8gb will run you $40 by then.

GPU - This is where I think you will possibly be looking to upgrade in 4 years. The problem with GPU is that it's a twofold piece of hardware. There's the technology involved, as well as raw power. My brother spent $2000 on a computer about 4 years ago, and upgraded about a year ago (Shelling out almost as much). He had a GeForce 295, which is an insanely powerful card for it's time. In fact, it was about as 'powerful' as a 560ti, which was one of the better cards of it's generation. HOWEVER, despite being 'as powerful', the technology was 3 generations old, and struggled with some games. So again, even if you throw money at a machine, and get a cray-cray video card... Time takes it's toll, regardless.

I've always been of the school of thought that the spot right between Upper Medium End/High end hardware is the best place to buy, unless you know you'll have $1000 a year to spend on computers. I Purchased a GeForce 660, which some people might consider lacking, however I'm extremely happy with it. I expect to get an 860 about 2-3 years from now.

[Bluesparkks]

CPU - The 3570K is an -extremely- powerful CPU, all things considered. I usually buy middle like CPUs in the i5-3350 area. And that has always lasted me 3 years easily. My 3570K, overclocked, I expect to last me 4 years at least, to play enjoyably. If I come on hard times, it will last 6 years without too much trouble.

Taking your advice and opting for the 3570k because of the lack of actually using hyperthreading.

Just out of curiosity, how big of a performance jump am I look at moving to a 3570k from a...whatever the i7 Q720 @ 1.6GHz is?

RAM - Assuming you don't upgrade the system itself, RAM can be one of two things. 1) You don't need more, or 2) If you need more, RAM is incredibly cheap... So not really a concern. Another 8gb will run you $40 by then.

So would I be remiss to drop the extra $40 or whatever now for 16GB (2x8GB) or should I just get 8GB now and wait? I honestly don't know how memory intensive my typical computer usage can get--probably the worst when I'm running Chrome+Firefox (one with 12+ tabs and the other with several really big [40k+ words] GDocs ), a fullscreened YouTube video, and whatever game I'm playing (WoW/LoL/BL2, usually), though I imagine the game/video are more straining on the GPU than RAM.

(Sorry, only have vague ideas on how all of this works--guessing quite a lot.)

GPU - This is where I think you will possibly be looking to upgrade in 4 years. The problem with GPU is that it's a twofold piece of hardware. There's the technology involved, as well as raw power. My brother spent $2000 on a computer about 4 years ago, and upgraded about a year ago (Shelling out almost as much). He had a GeForce 295, which is an insanely powerful card for it's time. In fact, it was about as 'powerful' as a 560ti, which was one of the better cards of it's generation. HOWEVER, despite being 'as powerful', the technology was 3 generations old, and struggled with some games. So again, even if you throw money at a machine, and get a cray-cray video card... Time takes it's toll, regardless.

If anything I'd expect the GPU to be the part most people upgrade first, yeah. But, like you said, pretty difficult to accurately predict this stuff.

I've always been of the school of thought that the spot right between Upper Medium End/High end hardware is the best place to buy, unless you know you'll have $1000 a year to spend on computers. I Purchased a GeForce 660, which some people might consider lacking, however I'm extremely happy with it. I expect to get an 860 about 2-3 years from now.

That's what I'm aiming for. I'm not going to buy too much past what I actually need just because I want it--I mean, I'll indulge here and there, but not too much.

So taking everyone's advice into account, how's this look? I'm kind of crinkling my nose at the 8GB, but I really doubt I'll need more than that except those rare extreme cases.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($189.99 @ Microcenter)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($24.99 @ Newegg)
Thermal Compound: Arctic Silver Arctic Alumina Premium Ceramic Polysynthetic 1.75g Thermal Paste ($3.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock Z77 Pro3 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($94.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill NS Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 840 Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($179.99 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda Green 2TB 3.5" 5900RPM Internal Hard Drive ($89.99 @ NCIX US)
Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition 3GB Video Card ($449.99 @ Newegg)
Wireless Network Adapter: Rosewill RNX-N250PCe 802.11b/g/n PCI-Express x1 Wi-Fi Adapter ($23.20 @ Amazon)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Enforcer ATX Mid Tower Case ($63.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 620W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($76.49 @ Amazon)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($16.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.94 @ Outlet PC)
Monitor: Asus VS248H-P 24.0" Monitor ($159.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $1524.52
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-05-13 00:34 EDT-0400)

(Thanks for showing me this site, by the way, it's been incredibly helpful to my newbish ways.)

EDIT: Added monitor.

EDIT2: Oh, forgot. Should I wait for Haswell?

[chazus]

how big of a performance jump am I look at moving to a 3570k from a...whatever the i7 Q720 @ 1.6GHz is?

It's hard to compare apples to oranges, which is what they are. However just from clock speed alone, the 3570K stomps all over the Q720.

So would I be remiss to drop the extra $40 or whatever now for 16GB (2x8GB) or should I just get 8GB now and wait?

I wouldn't bother. 4gb is good enough for WoW, but not quite enough for WoW + Youtube + Tabs + whatever else. But 8gb is more than well enough. I often run two games at once, WoW (Waiting for LFR queue) and whatever else I'm actually playing.. + minecraft server... + a number of other things, and never have issues. Most people will never need more than 8gb.

Basically, you probably won't need more than 8, so I wouldn't bother. IF, IF for some reason you find yourself needing more... then get it later.

So taking everyone's advice into account, how's this look? I'm kind of crinkling my nose at the 8GB, but I really doubt I'll need more than that except those rare extreme cases.

I can't think of any reason people would need more than 8gb. I really can't. I feel like I'm an exception, in that I run multiple games at once, and many tabs. And even then I don't break 8.

EDIT2: Oh, forgot. Should I wait for Haswell?

This close? I think so. It's a few weeks off... Either Ivy Bridge prices will tank (doubtful), or Haswell will be very similar. Your current build doesn't need to change, except for the CPU and board. You'd be looking at a 4670K and Z87 board of about the same price.

[Bluesparkks]

This close? I think so. It's a few weeks off... Either Ivy Bridge prices will tank (doubtful), or Haswell will be very similar. Your current build doesn't need to change, except for the CPU and board. You'd be looking at a 4670K and Z87 board of about the same price.

A'ight, I can wait. Assuming my laptop doesn't explode before then (it shouldn't, it's thankfully been stable for the past few month).

Thanks for all the help, guys.

[Deleted]

@chazus , wouldn't it be a 4570k instead of the 4670k you mention?

@melange, just open up a new topic or bump this one with a request for a up to date build when haswell is released. (since from time to time there are quite awesome sales on certain parts)
speaking of parts a new haswell mobo might be tricky due to there being almost no reviews around at release however it should be noted if you want a rig to last it is better to buy a slighter more expensive board to ensure quality. (i for one been through 3 gigabyte boards in 1,5 year)

[Deleted]

@chazus , wouldn't it be a 4570k instead of the 4670k you mention?

@melange, just open up a new topic or bump this one with a request for a up to date build when haswell is released. (since from time to time there are quite awesome sales on certain parts)
speaking of parts a new haswell mobo might be tricky due to there being almost no reviews around at release however it should be noted if you want a rig to last it is better to buy a slighter more expensive board to ensure quality. (i for one been through 3 gigabyte boards in 1,5 year)

1) Nope. Intel have definitely confirmed it's the 4670k as the pinnacle i5 CPU, and CPU-Z seems to agree.
2) Possibly stretch to a ASUS Z87 Deluxe, at around $200.

[chazus]

Intel have definitely confirmed it's the 4670k as the pinnacle i5 CPU

Which is... strange. Because it makes it seem like the numbering scheme has no real value. The 4670K is literally identical to the 3570K, except for the new architecture. Same cores/threads. Same speed/turbo. Same cache. I don't know what the "5" or "7" in 3570 and "6" and "7" in 4670 indicate. Most numbering schemes have a meaning. Intel seems to follow the school of thought of "I like turtles"

Adding to the O_o, the 3470 = 4570, and 3330 = 4430.

[Deleted]

to appeal to bigger numbers is better crowd perhaps?

[Bluesparkks]

[Bump]

So looking at Z87 boards...to be honest I have no idea how to pick a board besides making sure it's got all the slots you need.

EDIT: Something like this?

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($249.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($22.98 @ Outlet PC)
Thermal Compound: Arctic Silver Arctic Alumina Premium Ceramic Polysynthetic 1.75g Thermal Paste ($3.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Asus Z87-PRO ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($209.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill NS Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 840 Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($184.99 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda Green 2TB 3.5" 5900RPM Internal Hard Drive
Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition 3GB Video Card ($449.99 @ Newegg)
Wireless Network Adapter: Rosewill RNX-N250PCe 802.11b/g/n PCI-Express x1 Wi-Fi Adapter ($17.24 @ Amazon)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Enforcer ATX Mid Tower Case ($79.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 620W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($88.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($18.49 @ Amazon)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.94 @ Outlet PC)
Monitor: Asus VS248H-P 24.0" Monitor ($177.58 @ Newegg)
Total: $1626.14
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-06-04 00:50 EDT-0400)

[Deleted]

i have not read many reviews about the asus boards yet.
however assuming the build is to last quite long i'd pick this one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813130691
so far very solid reviews.

[Bluesparkks]

i have not read many reviews about the asus boards yet.
however assuming the build is to last quite long i'd pick this one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813130691
so far very solid reviews.

Yeah, reviews look good. So something more along these lines?

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($249.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($22.98 @ Outlet PC)
Thermal Compound: Arctic Silver Arctic Alumina Premium Ceramic Polysynthetic 1.75g Thermal Paste ($3.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: MSI Z87 MPOWER ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($238.49 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill NS Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Crucial M4 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($119.99 @ Microcenter)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($95.80 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition 3GB Video Card ($449.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Enforcer ATX Mid Tower Case ($79.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 620W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($88.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($18.49 @ Amazon)
Monitor: Asus VS248H-P 24.0" Monitor ($177.58 @ Newegg)
Total: $1576.26
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-06-04 10:21 EDT-0400)

EDIT: And would that video card be able to support dual monitors (extended) @ 1920x1080 each? It says max resolution for digital is 2560x1600, but my laptop's 3-4 years old and can handle dual 1080p monitors just fine. Never mind, it's per-monitor. Dhurr.

[Bluesparkks]

[Bump again]

Sorry, just want to make absolute sure that this build is solid and there's no other better deals or anything before I go ordering parts.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($249.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Thermal Compound: Arctic Silver Arctic Alumina Premium Ceramic Polysynthetic 1.75g Thermal Paste ($3.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: MSI Z87 MPOWER ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($238.49 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill NS Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 840 Series 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($98.76 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($94.17 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition 3GB Video Card ($449.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Enforcer ATX Mid Tower Case ($79.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 620W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($18.49 @ Amazon)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($90.91 @ Amazon)
Monitor: Asus VS248H-P 24.0" Monitor ($187.58 @ Newegg)
Total: $1662.33
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-06-05 15:43 EDT-0400)

[Deleted]

The only thing I might change is the GPU to the MSI GTX770 Lightning which is the same price before Shipping&Handling on Newegg.