Do you think the lol panda image before MoP helped the loss?

[ComputerNerd]

100% of what this guy said except for the kung fu panda part. I hated crapdaren since their first useless appearance in Warcraft 3, I hated after they were announced for WoW, and I hate them now even more after experiencing their "lore" and "culture".

Pet battles and farming? Can't even say they bother me at all, since it's not something that spits on the lore, it's just side crap, like collecting mounts. Crapdaren though, they're just so out of place, even like Mithfir said, Metzen had to say "This is not a joke", and obviously we didn't buy it the third time either.

They are no worse than any other walking talking furball in the game, which not only includes several player races but many non-player ones.
This constant bashing of pandaren is childish, and simply an alternative to a legitimate argument.

[dope_danny]

If anything i think pandaren drew players back or new ones in. I think the aging game and increasing competition from newer, prettier mmo's in the exploding f2p market is to blame.

[mistahwilshire]

When Chris Metzen, the guy behind Warcraft lore, has to say: "This is not a joke", it just confirms that they failed their first impression test.

And honestly now. Monks, Pandas, Farming daily, Pet battles. First thing that came to my mind was kung-fu panda meet farmville in pokémon. Compare that with the other expansions and to me it looks childish. And probably many others.

And yet the actual plot in this expansion is one of the least childish. So you kinda just look like an ass for making really really inaccurate assumptions.

[Deleted]

As much as I dislike Pandaren, I think they are stupid and the animations and voice they got are annoying as hell...

I don't think they were the case of the sub drop.

[Vargas]

Pandaren didn't contribute to the sub drop, at least not in a meaningful way. Only a child would throw a hissy fit over such a thing.

[Deleted]

I kinda think that Blizzards mentality last few years changed it all for them. They basically now say: we don´t listen to you and we do what we like. They force the players now in how they should play instead of letting them play the way they like.

[Bullettime]

100% of what this guy said except for the kung fu panda part. I hated crapdaren since their first useless appearance in Warcraft 3, I hated after they were announced for WoW, and I hate them now even more after experiencing their "lore" and "culture".

Pet battles and farming? Can't even say they bother me at all, since it's not something that spits on the lore, it's just side crap, like collecting mounts. Crapdaren though, they're just so out of place, even like Mithfir said, Metzen had to say "This is not a joke", and obviously we didn't buy it the third time either.

Unfortunately gamers are too often fickle pieces of garbage. Instead of paying attention to the words of the introduction video to set up WHY we have what we have or listen to Metzen, everyone was screaming "NO PANDAS SUCKS I'M A BIG BOY AND TOO MATURE AM I COOL GUYS?," nevermind that it made them sound immature in the process.

Pandaria has been amazing in the way it's handled storytelling and gave us a reason to simply explore a new place without it being "go here to thwart the big bad guy" which was getting repetitive.

Pet battles were nothing more than optional side content.
Farming is nothing but a way to make raid preparation and getting consumables more convenient.

Anyone who judges the expansion purely on the new friendly NPCs being Pandaren and on the side content are dumb, for the lack of a better word. Judge the expansion based on the actual content, the gameplay, the dungeons, the raids, the environment, the storytelling, etc. All of which have been spectacular.

And no. Pandas forced away players who feel the need to tell themselves that they're too grown up for "childish" things and the sub losses from this would have been recorded in the previous two quarters before this. Blizzard made a lot of mistakes in how they handled dailies and their interaction with reputation and valor point rewards. They also made a mistake in taking so long to address server population issues. Those two things are impacting their current losses in NA far more than Pandas.

[ElvenArcher]

They are no worse than any other walking talking furball in the game, which not only includes several player races but many non-player ones.
This constant bashing of pandaren is childish, and simply an alternative to a legitimate argument.

And yet they are worse, because every other race is half inspired by something else and half something new. Crapdaren are China. Not even China mixed with Japan and Iran and India and Lebanon or whatever else out of Asia. Just China. Great Wall, Snake Dragons, Chinese architecture, Chinese history, Martials Arts etc.

On top of that they bring a thick level of hypocrisy on top of everything they tell us not to do, which makes their whole message all the more unbearable.

The Pandaren from the Wandering Isle are actually all right since they have some personality even though they're still copy paste culturally, but the mainland crapdaren make want to nuke the site from orbit, and I hope that's what happens when Sargeras lands there.

[Cirque]

Just a bit. I know ex-players who were put off by the label alone, since it "obviously isn't a serious expansion."

Kind of sad. I personally think MoP's storytelling is a lot better than previous expansions, even if I'm not a huge fan of Pandaria and its denizens myself.

I agree, really, but reading your post I actually realized I myself never thought and still am not thinking of MoP as a "serious expansion", it's more like an interlude. As someone else said, there's so many potential storylines and heroes and villains that could have their own expansion, and instead we get MoP, out of the blue. I haven't quit and I am still playing, but yes, I actually feel like MoP is just a minor break, like some small patch before the next raid.

[Alvito]

People that got that upset over a feature they hadn't seen were just looking for a reason to quit. It is always best to cut out the toxic people as quickly and often as you can even if the game population drops and a few more ppl freak out a little.

[ElvenArcher]

Unfortunately gamers are too often fickle pieces of garbage. Instead of paying attention to the words of the introduction video to set up WHY we have what we have or listen to Metzen, everyone was screaming "NO PANDAS SUCKS I'M A BIG BOY AND TOO MATURE AM I COOL GUYS?," nevermind that it made them sound immature in the process.

Pandaria has been amazing in the way it's handled storytelling and gave us a reason to simply explore a new place without it being "go here to thwart the big bad guy" which was getting repetitive.

Pet battles were nothing more than optional side content.
Farming is nothing but a way to make raid preparation and getting consumables more convenient.

Anyone who judges the expansion purely on the new friendly NPCs being Pandaren and on the side content are dumb, for the lack of a better word. Judge the expansion based on the actual content, the gameplay, the dungeons, the raids, the environment, the storytelling, etc. All of which have been spectacular.

And no. Pandas forced away players who feel the need to tell themselves that they're too grown up for "childish" things and the sub losses from this would have been recorded in the previous two quarters before this. Blizzard made a lot of mistakes in how they handled dailies and their interaction with reputation and valor point rewards. They also made a mistake in taking so long to address server population issues. Those two things are impacting their current losses in NA far more than Pandas.

People who tell me this expansion was the only one to handle good storytelling make me sick. Wrath and Cataclysm both had great storytelling and quests, even if they did have major villains, which crapdaria also happens to have btw. Instead of being one, there's multiple split in "anger" "hate" and all that BS.

Cataclysm wedding quest, Bolvar's in-game video quest line, Drakuru's ascension quest line, saving of Hyjal etc, minus the over-the-top Harrison Jones Uldum quest line, are but some examples of excellent storyline before this expansion.

Give me a break with your amazing storytelling selective amnesia, also I never said crapdaren were childish, I hate how you people always bring that up even though I never even mention it.

[Mithfir]

And yet the actual plot in this expansion is one of the least childish. So you kinda just look like an ass for making really really inaccurate assumptions.

Those were my first impressions when I first heard about MoP. I suppose the Metzen quote is an inaccurate assumption as well? Want a source?

What ultimately made me quit was not the Pandas, but the Pvp changes. The more I read about it and the less I want to return. I'm merely curious about what's coming up next for the lore and the next expansion.

[Faderade]

i still hate pandas with all of my rage, every time i see one i make sure to gank him even though i normally just leave lowbies alone

still though its nothing to make me quit, just a sink for all of my rage

[Pachycrocuta]

Pandaren didn't contribute to the drop, or else there wouldn't have been an increase of 900k at the beginning. What did contribute to the drop? I honestly couldn't say, but I think the new LFR loot rules helped, as well as dailies, and the extremely horrible rep acquisition from dailies (whoever thought 100 rep per turn in (with guild rep bonus) was a good thing needs to be fired). I was one of the 1.3 million drop (let mine lapse in Feb), and my reason was because I got into some tabletop RPG games, and those are just miles better than mmorpgs (especially post-warcraft). The pandaren nor pet battles or anything dealing with this expansion was the cause of my leaving. I just found something more fun and entertaining than an mmorpg.

[mistahwilshire]

Those were my first impressions when I first heard about MoP. I suppose the Metzen quote is an inaccurate assumption as well? Want a source?

What ultimately made me quit was not the Pandas, but the Pvp changes. The more I read about it and the less I want to return. I'm merely curious about what's coming up next for the lore and the next expansion.

Metzen shouldn't have even had to make that remark to begin with. Warcraft players all over the world knew it was a serious expansion since Pandaren have been around for over a decade. The uninformed people that would jump to conclusions and ask if it was serious are the exact kind of players I don't want in the game anyway.

[melodramocracy]

No, for the simple fact that the subs went up when the expansion come out.

Subs would have gotten an initial boost regardless. Newness always spurs curiousity. Honestly I don't think the initial negative reaction to the announcements helped much.

I mind Pandaria less than I thought I would, but my anecdotal experience across a few servers is that I simply don't see many folks playing pandas. Or monks for that matter (though they do seem popular for heals).

[Thelxi]

I thought pandas were lame, and I still think they are lame. I haven't played a panda or a monk, nor do I have any interest in ever playing one.

Do I think Blizzard missed an opportunity of making an awesome expansion? yes. Does MoP suck? no. Is it better than Cataclysm? yes.

[Adam Jensen]

If people left because of that, good riddance.

[ElvenArcher]

Metzen shouldn't have even had to make that remark to begin with. Warcraft players all over the world knew it was a serious expansion since Pandaren have been around for over a decade. The uninformed people that would jump to conclusions and ask if it was serious are the exact kind of players I don't want in the game anyway.

The only people we don't want in the game are delusional types who think a race should be in a game because it made a random appearance in a side mission.

They should have Hydralisks and Zerg in general in WoW too! After all, you can find a Hydralisk hidden in one of the WC3 missions.

ZERG HAVE BEEN IN WARCRAFT FOR 12 YEARS WE WANT ZERG OMG WE'RE SO INFORMED.

[Falrinn]

As little as some of us want to admit it, poor first impressions caused in part by the "lighter" imagery of the Pandaren, was likely a factor in the subscriber drop. It wasn't the only factor of course, but when you put a pandaman on the box-cover, some gamers are going to be turned off by that.

One thing Blizzard could of done a better job with was first impressions. The Sha in particular should of been showcased a lot more heavily, starting from the announcement teaser and even on the box-art. That could of made it abundantly clear that while Pandaria might appear to be a little lighter then what we are used to, it gets pretty dark once you scratch the surface.