Page 25 of 41 FirstFirst ...
15
23
24
25
26
27
35
... LastLast
  1. #481
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Beach City
    Posts
    8,651
    Quote Originally Posted by Orly View Post
    I recall a certain stamina trinket that had a cast-time rocket launch that stunned. And yes, that counts.
    Find it so that we can show yet another ability that is nothing like a Tinker's abilities.

    And yeah, you know...the point is the fact that they got inspired from it.
    I believe the point was your belief that a Tinker class would be inspired by the Engineering profession. That has been proven false numerous times. The Engineering profession is loosely based on the mechanical units and items from WC3. A tinker class would be based on the Tinker hero unit.

    If you can't comprehend that, then this discussion really needs to end here.

    Saying they don't share the same effect/name when other abilities from WC3 are is stupid, because you're comparing class-to-class transition, as opposed to class-to-profession transition. Can you fucking get it it's not the same
    Actually that's the other point...... If the abilities are inspired by the Tinker hero, where are the inspired abilities? Rockets and other explosives come from the Goblin Sapper, the siege tanks, the Grypcopter bombs, and the Dwarven mortar team from WC3. The mechanical items you can craft come from the numerous mechanical items in WC3 like the mechanical critters that could be used to spy on your opponents. None of that is from the Tinker hero.

    In short, the Tinker hero's abilities are non-existent in WoW. Allowing a fertile space to use it as a template for the 12th class.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2013-05-14 at 10:43 PM.

  2. #482
    Lol how can you believe this?

  3. #483
    I am Murloc! Gothicshark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    In Thrall's loving embrace, all hail ThrallChrist.
    Posts
    5,026
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    You think those are similar abilities? They don't even share e same name.
    Tinker
    Engineering Upgrade (Passive)

    Gnome
    Engineering Specialist

    Since they both upgrade Engineering, it seems the same to me.

    Next:

    Tinker
    Cluster Rockets

    Engineer

    [Rough Dynamite]
    [Coarse Dynamite]
    [Rough Copper Bomb]
    [Big Bronze Bomb]
    [Large Copper Bomb]
    [Heavy Dynamite]
    [Small Bronze Bomb]
    [Explosive Sheep]
    [Big Iron Bomb]
    [Iron Grenade]
    [Solid Dynamite]
    [Compact Harvest Reaper Kit]
    [Hi-Explosive Bomb]
    [Handful of Fel Iron Bolts]
    [Frost Grenade]
    [Fel Iron Bomb]
    [Adamantite Grenade]
    [Cobalt Frag Bomb]
    [Explosive Decoy]
    [Box of Bombs]
    [Healing Injector Kit]
    [Mana Injector Kit]
    [Unbreakable Healing Amplifiers]
    [Global Thermal Sapper Charge]
    [Gnomish Lightning Generator]
    [Personal Electromagnetic Pulse Generator]

    125 [Small Blue Rocket] 175 [Large Red Rocket] 275 [Cluster Launcher]
    125 [Small Green Rocket] 225 [Firework Launcher] 275 [Large Blue Rocket Cluster]
    125 [Small Red Rocket] 225 [Blue Rocket Cluster] 275 [Large Green Rocket Cluster]
    175 [Large Blue Rocket] 225 [Green Rocket Cluster] 275 [Large Red Rocket Cluster]
    175 [Large Green Rocket] 225 [Red Rocket Cluster]
    [Discombobulator Ray]
    [Flash Bomb]
    [Snake Burst Firework]
    [Tranquil Mechanical Yeti]
    [Steam Tonk Controller]

    [Parachute Cloak]
    [Ez-Thro Dynamite]
    [Small Seaforium Charge]
    [Flame Deflector]
    [Major Recombobulator]
    [Gnomish Universal Remote]
    [Dark Iron Bomb]
    [Hyper-Radiant Flame Reflector]
    [Discombobulator Ray]
    [Voice Amplification Modulator]
    [Portable Bronze Mortar]
    [Arcane Bomb]
    [Arcanite Dragonling]
    [Flash Bomb]
    [Goblin Land Mine]
    [Gnomish Cloaking Device]
    [Large Seaforium Charge]
    [Crashin' Thrashin' Robot]
    [Healing Potion Injector]
    [Purple Smoke Flare]
    [Mana Potion Injector]
    [Rocket Boots Xtreme]
    [Rocket Boots Xtreme Lite]
    [Jeeves]
    [Deepdive Helmet]
    [Gnomish Universal Remote]
    [Mithril Mechanical Dragonling]
    [Minor Recombobulator]
    [Gyrofreeze Ice Reflector]
    [Blue Firework]
    [Green Firework]
    [Red Firework]
    [Masterwork Target Dummy]
    [Ice Deflector]
    [Powerful Seaforium Charge]
    [Goblin Jumper Cables]
    [Steam Tonk Controller] -
    [Ez-Thro Dynamite II]
    [Gnomish Cloaking Device]
    [Mechanical Dragonling]
    [White Smoke Flare]
    [Gnomish Shrink Ray]
    [Lil' Smoky]
    [Gnomish Net-o-Matic Projector]
    [Gnomish Harm Prevention Belt]
    [Gnomish Rocket Boots]
    [Gnomish Battle Chicken]
    [Gnomish Mind Control Cap]
    [Gnomish Death Ray]
    [Ultrasafe Transporter: Gadgetzan]
    [World Enlarger]
    [Gnomish Alarm-O-Bot]
    [Gnomish Flame Turret]
    [Gnomish Poultryizer]
    [Nigh Invulnerability Belt]
    [Ultrasafe Transporter: Toshley's Station]
    [Goblin Mortar]
    [The Mortar: Reloaded]
    [Pet Bombling]
    [Goblin Sapper Charge]
    [Goblin Rocket Boots]
    [Goblin Bomb Dispenser]
    [The Big One]
    [Dimensional Ripper - Everlook]
    [Goblin Jumper Cables XL]
    [The Bigger One]
    [Super Sapper Charge]
    [Goblin Rocket Launcher]
    [Dimensional Ripper - Area 52]
    [Global Thermal Sapper Charge]


    So this is the full combat usable list for engineering. What is it that Your tinker class can do that Engineering doesn't. I excluded crafting items and guns and googles.

  4. #484
    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    Engineer
    *snip*
    So what's your rotation and theoretical dps using only the items you listed?
    Garth Brooks convinced me it's not living if I stand outside the fire

  5. #485
    Quote Originally Posted by FruitBat69 View Post

    Warrior - Dragoon - usage of lances, maybe throwing spears or ranged?
    Mage - Blood mage - heal spec? maybe a dot spec
    Rogue - ?????
    Druid - Bear
    Hunter - based on the icon - Dark Ranger
    Shaman - Earth spec, tanking?
    Priest - looks like maybe some kind of shadow frost otherwise ?????
    Warlock - Demon Hunter - either melee DPS or tank
    Paladin - Ranged/caster DPS
    Death Knight - Death spec - caster/healer/necromancer spec
    Monk - red crane - caster DPS

    Engineer/Tinkerer
    - Poisons/Potions/Chemistry/Alchemy based attacks
    - Tesla coil/ Lightning rod - channeling Caster DPS spec?
    - Stuns? Knock out/flash bangs? CC spec? Green color... heals?
    - Rockets, grenades, bomb spec.

  6. #486
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Find it so that we can show yet another ability that is nothing like a Tinker's abilities.



    I believe the point was your belief that a Tinker class would be inspired by the Engineering profession. That has been proven false numerous times. The Engineering profession is loosely based on the mechanical units and items from WC3. A tinker class would be based on the Tinker hero unit.

    If you can't comprehend that, then this discussion really needs to end here.



    Actually that's the other point...... If the abilities are inspired by the Tinker hero, where are the inspired abilities? Rockets and other explosives come from the Goblin Sapper, the siege tanks, the Grypcopter bombs, and the Dwarven mortar team from WC3. The mechanical items you can craft come from the numerous mechanical items in WC3 like the mechanical critters that could be used to spy on your opponents. None of that is from the Tinker hero.

    In short, the Tinker hero's abilities are non-existent in WoW. Allowing a fertile space to use it as a template for the 12th class.
    It is my belief that a Tinker class would be very similar to what engineering can do because engineering got inspired from Tinkers. Same with alchemy. Having a class that gets at least 2, if not 3 specs, based off two existing classes, is SILLY.

    That and, what Gothicshark said.

  7. #487
    I am Murloc! Gothicshark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    In Thrall's loving embrace, all hail ThrallChrist.
    Posts
    5,026
    Quote Originally Posted by chrth View Post
    So what's your rotation and theoretical dps using only the items you listed?
    I believe the point is not DPS but would including a class that does the same thing a profession does would be redundant.



    Also I should mention
    WHY the fuck would blizzard make a Class based on the two least popular races?

  8. #488
    Quote Originally Posted by chrth View Post
    So what's your rotation and theoretical dps using only the items you listed?
    What's YOUR rotation and theoretical dps WITHOUT those listed items?

  9. #489
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Beach City
    Posts
    8,651
    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    I believe the point is not DPS but would including a class that does the same thing a profession does would be redundant.
    But that is the point, and the answer to your question you posed to me earlier; What can a Tinker class do that the Engineering profession can't do?

    A Tinker class could heal, DPS, and possibly Tank. You can't do any of that with those engineering abilities.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2013-05-14 at 11:12 PM.

  10. #490
    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    I believe the point is not DPS but would including a class that does the same thing a profession does would be redundant.
    I'm sorry, I just don't see it. I can't tank with my Engineering profession, but I can easily see a tanking tinker option.

    Also I should mention
    WHY the fuck would blizzard make a Class based on the two least popular races?
    Aren't Demon Hunters exclusively Night Elves? Why would blizzard make a class based on one race with middling popularity?
    Garth Brooks convinced me it's not living if I stand outside the fire

  11. #491
    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    So this is the full combat usable list for engineering. What is it that Your tinker class can do that Engineering doesn't. I excluded crafting items and guns and googles.
    Use more than one attack every five minutes.

    Your argument is illogical, you might as well say that since alchemists can heal with a potion, healers are completely unnecessary.

    Being able to throw one bomb, or shoot one rocket every 2-30 minutes, is completely different than an AoE barrage of rockets similar to Blizzard or Volley. And entirely different from a class that can constantly throw out bombs and rockets at enemies.

    Invisibility potion != Having the Stealth ability
    Haste potion != Heroism
    Jumper Cables != Having Ressurection
    30 minute cooldown Mind control cap != Dominate Mind

    You're being silly. Having an item or two (Because, c'mon, there's no point in listing so many items when 80% share a long cooldown) is nothing like having an entire spell set based on bombs and rockets.
    You tried too hard and now your post is shit. Never try too hard, the gamble isn't worth it. -Boubouille

  12. #492
    Quote Originally Posted by Orly View Post
    What's YOUR rotation and theoretical dps WITHOUT those listed items?
    Well my Ele Shaman isn't an Engineer. Her rotation is largely based around Lava Burst procs, keeping totems up, etc. I haven't simmed her in awhile, but I think it's 55k? I've neglected her compared to my hunters.
    Garth Brooks convinced me it's not living if I stand outside the fire

  13. #493

  14. #494
    I am Murloc! Gothicshark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    In Thrall's loving embrace, all hail ThrallChrist.
    Posts
    5,026
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    But that is the point, and the answer to your question you posed to me earlier; What can a Tinker class do that the Engineering profession can't do?

    A Tinker class could heal, DPS, and possibly Tank. You can't do any of that with those engineering abilities.
    I find it funny you spend so much effort trying to convince people your bad idea is what Blizzard wants, when in your Signature you have a couple of good Ideas which are much more likely.

    Your idea on the Ranger and Demon Hunter are highly likely but will be open to all races besides Pandas. (just because they limited Gobos and Worgan from Monks), the bard and necromancer ideas could work as well, but the odds lean towards Ranger and Demon hunter. As of yet you can not even answer the biggest question I asked.


    WHY the fuck would blizzard make a Class based on the two least popular races?
    So until you can explain how the tinker will draw players (1.3 to 3.7 million)I doubt you will see the class become a reality.

  15. #495
    Brewmaster Wiyld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Secret Underground Lair
    Posts
    1,479
    lol its just someone using bartender and putting all the icons on the bars
    Quote Originally Posted by Gillern View Post
    "IM LOOKING AT A THING I DONT LIKE, I HAVE THE OPTION TO GO AWAY FROM IT BUT I WILL LOOK MORE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT THE THING I DONT LIKE BECAUSE I DONT LIKE IT, NO ONE IS FORCING ME TO SEARCH FOR THIS THING OR LOOK AT THIS THING OR REMAIN LOOKING AT THIS THING BUT I AM ANYWAY, ITS OFFENDS ME! ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME!!!"
    Troof

  16. #496
    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    So until you can explain how the tinker will draw players (1.3 to 3.7 million)I doubt you will see the class become a reality.
    Because it's an interesting an unique class that would fit nicely with the current lack of physical ranged DPS.

    Also are you really using the original tinker race setup as an argument?

    Monks didn't even have a race pre-Mists.
    The closest thing was probably runemaster, which was connected to dwarf (which is the least popular alliance race, by the way, not gnome) and Tauren, which was the least popular Horde race until they got paladins and Goblins were added.
    Last edited by Hitei; 2013-05-14 at 11:31 PM.
    You tried too hard and now your post is shit. Never try too hard, the gamble isn't worth it. -Boubouille

  17. #497
    I am Murloc! Gothicshark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    In Thrall's loving embrace, all hail ThrallChrist.
    Posts
    5,026
    Quote Originally Posted by chrth View Post
    I'm sorry, I just don't see it. I can't tank with my Engineering profession, but I can easily see a tanking tinker option.



    Aren't Demon Hunters exclusively Night Elves? Why would blizzard make a class based on one race with middling popularity?
    Actually in BC Blood Elves were the Majority of Demon Hunters, and They are by far the most popular Horde race, Humans and Night Elves are the most popular Alliance Races. My arguement however is not that I think Demon hunters are the next Hero Class, My arguement is they are more likely to do Demon Hunter than Tinker. At least if he was arguing for Goblin Alchemist that would be more valid since they really are only representented by NPCs in game. Only I doubt they'll have a class that rides on the back of a

  18. #498
    Quote Originally Posted by chrth View Post
    Aren't Demon Hunters exclusively Night Elves? Why would blizzard make a class based on one race with middling popularity?
    Not quite, it's been said somewhere what any race can become a Demon Hunter however only the Elves (Night and Blood specifically) have ever been shown to be Demon Hunters.

    "The tradition of the demon hunter arises from night elf history, and almost all demon hunters are night elves. A few blood elves make the pledge as well, seeking revenge for the destruction of their home. Other races can become demon hunters, but such individuals are unheard of. Any member of another race who is willing to make the sacrifices necessary to join the fight against the demonic invaders must find a night elf or blood elf demon hunter to assist him in the initiation ceremonies.[2]"

    From: http://www.wowpedia.org/Demon_hunter

    So from that, I'd say it's possible that they'd allow any race to be a Demon Hunter, though I'd personally limit their use to any race that can currently be a Warlock. At least then you'd have some backstory for each Race's reason to take up the call.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    Actually in BC Blood Elves were the Majority of Demon Hunters, and They are by far the most popular Horde race, Humans and Night Elves are the most popular Alliance Races
    The reason for that though, was that Kael'thas gave Illidan a bunch of troops to train to become Demon Hunters. He brought 4 Night Elf Demon Hunters with him, 1 of which defected, more parted ways as he doesn't seek to fight Illidan's forces only the Legion's, to seek our aid against the Legion. He trained 5 Blood Elves, 2 Survived, 1 went insane and 1 became the "Leader" of the Demon Hunters outside of the Black Temple. In reality, Night Elves make up the majority of the Demon Hunters with Blood Elves starting provide a number of representatives.
    Last edited by Matt0193; 2013-05-14 at 11:33 PM.
    "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

  19. #499
    I am Murloc! Gothicshark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    In Thrall's loving embrace, all hail ThrallChrist.
    Posts
    5,026
    Quote Originally Posted by Soratrox View Post
    Because it's an interesting an unique class that would fit nicely with the current lack of physical ranged DPS.
    I agree it would be different, as a hard core Gnome player i would love some Gnome love. But the reality is Gnomes and Goblins are joke races and get very little respect from the community and from Blizzard. So the point still stands,


    WHY would Blizzard who is loosing subscriptions put something in the game for the smallest group of players?

  20. #500
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Beach City
    Posts
    8,651
    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    I find it funny you spend so much effort trying to convince people your bad idea is what Blizzard wants, when in your Signature you have a couple of good Ideas which are much more likely.

    Your idea on the Ranger and Demon Hunter are highly likely but will be open to all races besides Pandas. (just because they limited Gobos and Worgan from Monks), the bard and necromancer ideas could work as well, but the odds lean towards Ranger and Demon hunter. As of yet you can not even answer the biggest question I asked.
    The odds are against a Ranger because of the ridiculous amount of overlap with the Hunter class. If Blizzard drops the pet requirement for Marksmanship, then the Ranger serves no purpose. You also have to properly distinguish between three specs, and again make sure that they don't overlap with Hunters and even Rogues. A tall order, and not worth the time IMO. Even in my thread people still thought the class idea was too much like Hunters. This was with a Dark Ranger spec, and a Warden spec tossed in.

    Demon Hunters have numerous implementation problems. People tend to ignore those problems because they love the class. However, those problems are pretty huge, and glaring. Not only are the abilities wholly owned by another class, but the very name causes implementation issues because it can be confused with Hunters. Let it go, it isn't happening.

    So until you can explain how the tinker will draw players (1.3 to 3.7 million)I doubt you will see the class become a reality.
    The Tinker will draw players because no other class is like it, and because technology classes ARE popular in fantasy MMOs. However, your argument that a class needs to bring in the lost WoW subscribers to be considered a possibility is a joke. It isn't lack of classes that has caused WoW's subscription base to erode, its the fact that WoW is almost 10 years old.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2013-05-14 at 11:35 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •