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  1. #221
    Mechagnome kamikaze148's Avatar
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    What can they do?. Nothing.

    Im sorry, but this negative argument over Blizzard losing subs, and the impending doom it represents is tiresome and old and needs to be put to rest.

    This game is old, real old in the scheme of things. We are coming up on a decade very soon since its released, Blizzards notion of attaining this mythical golden pot at the end of the rainbow that is "new players" really needs to take a back seat to retain the current playerbase still hanging on.

    The majority of people outside the WoW loop look at its aging graphics engine, its slightly hostile established player base when dealing with new players, the intense levelling curve, skill and gearing curve and a myriad of other issues that come with an established MMO like WoW and either quit after level 40 odd or just dont even bother.

    ESO comes out this year, along with a flood of other great single player games, its only natural attrition over years of players burning themselves out and leaving, or simply just finding another game, its not the end of the world and i personally am sick and tired of people seeing the loss of subs as such. Be thankful that we have what we have, one day soon within the next half decade it will dwindle down to less than 2mill and will still hopefully be one of the bigger heavy hitters on the market.

    I love this game believe me, and still play it daily. But i guess ive played it long enough to recognize the signs and where its inevitably heading

  2. #222
    When people think back to the best experiences they had in wow, they always think "well me and my friends" did this or that. They have taken many social aspects out of the game. It used to matter if you were well known on a server, because if you were a troll, you never got invited to heroics or pug raids, you never got into any reputable guild except the ones that spam invites and are filled with lvl 50s all trying to get to cap. By adding in many of the features available today, you no longer need to care. It has allowed harrassment, and trolling to run rampart on servers, making even being in general or trade chat unappealing, and who needs friends in wow now? log in, queue for a random dungeon or raid, watch everyone complain and moan and try to take advantage of others by queuing as a dps in all tank gear, or with an inventory full of epics to bump up your ilvl and get carried. you calm yourself down and say this is just lfr, its easy. you manage to get through it without too much stress, and log off. That gets old quick. I'm not saying these features should be removed, but they need to be remade at the very least. They toss in a bunch of features to get people interested enough to re-activate for a month or 2 then they quit again. They change up the talent and skills system against most players wishes and remove/modify stats to make it easier for them, but less interesting for us. Leveling doesnt feel special anymore, raiding doesnt feel special anymore. earning epics isnt special anymore, because epics arent epic anymore. It's all monotonous sometimes tedious work for very little gratification. tldr; fix social aspect of game. punish trolls.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoros
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  3. #223
    Turn it into an adventure again.

    At the moment everything is mechanical. Its tedious. They can save this game but honestly I think their best resources are not in wow now and we have very boring patches. More they claim but everything in cycles, where the hell is the innovation Blizzard? It's been a ling time now. Too long for a game like to survive. Get busy!

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by segoplout View Post
    Turn it into an adventure again.

    At the moment everything is mechanical. Its tedious. They can save this game but honestly I think their best resources are not in wow now and we have very boring patches. More they claim but everything in cycles, where the hell is the innovation Blizzard? It's been a ling time now. Too long for a game like to survive. Get busy!
    The story telling aspect of WoW is really really poor.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Svifnymr View Post
    I'd say a big part is cost structure.
    Base Game should be $20 for everything up to last expac and have your first month.
    Expac Game should be $40 and include a month sub also.

    So yeah, currently you pay $20 for up to Wrath, then buy Cata, then buy Mists if starting from scratch.
    If you're returning to the game, you possibly need to buy Cata, then Mists, then also pay $15 for a month of play.

    next issue would be updating the models/graphics and getting more interesting storylines

    final issue would be the barrier to entry of the various ilvl requirements for a returning player.
    I think the cost structure is the major part thats keeping actual NEW players at bay. Considering the average lifecycle of an expansion is about 2 years, and there's additional 'service and cosmetic' fees to support expenses I still think they should be minimizing costs that discourage players in their honeymoon period from continuing to play.

    I think there's a *LOT* of room for more '5 minute' content like Pet Battles and Brawler's Guild.

  6. #226
    Nothing, even if they do something to gain subs there will still be people who have gotten burnt out that will quit until it eventually levels out.

    Anyone who thinks any game, especially an 7+ year old game, is supposed to continuously increase in subs is smoking meth. No game has ever done this and if a game were to it would be some sort of miracle or designed to be super addicting.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Bilbo Baggins View Post
    The story telling aspect of WoW is really really poor.
    I don't think that he is talking about the story, which arguably was never good after WarCraft III, but adventuring in the world of the game like the older times, when travelling to a far-off zone to continue on a questline was an exciting journey filled with danger and mystery. The game has become too much about its instanced content and its repeatable content that could as well be instanced, rather than maintaining the one thing vanilla did right: offer a huge coherent world for players to... play in. We went from tenths of zones, multiple campaigns, class quests, off-the-beaten-path quest hubs, exploration and immersive gameplay, to five-to-seven zones, just two campaigns, a handful of group dungeons that are neither interesting nor big or complex, some by-luck exploration, and worst of all from playing to have fun and uncover some more of the world of the game to... gathering points.

    And all that to make more instanced and repeatable content, and try and lure everyone that likes to PVE into that content because it is easier to make and cheaper. The problem is not the dailies; there are people that like them. Neither the challenging raid content; there are people that like it. The problem is that different people like different things. And the game seems to only focus on some of those things each time. Most players were quite happy playing out in the world in vanilla, doing some dungeon runs every now and then, and the occasional PVP. They liked it. And more of that would be fine. But the developers cut back on that type of content, by a lot, and tried to shoehorn everyone into dungeon running and raiding because it's easier to make such content. First they bribed them with some easy epics, mostly from PVP in Crusade. Then gave them a good foothold in raiding and more epics in WOTLK. Then, after failing to convince them to play better at the beginning of Cataclysm, they went on and even tried to get them into heroic modes. All the while the problem was that most of these players were not interested in raiding, and only did it because there was nothing else to do in the game. And now, well, they run out of options. Hence the boredom and the departures.

    They should never have cut down on the overall amount of content they provided for the game. All aspects should have been treated equally. Questing, exploring, raiding, group dungeons, world PVP, battlegrounds, arenas, proffessions, role-playing; everything. And they had both the money and the time to do it. The game's phenomenal success offered them a stupidly high amount of money, and they should have invested more of that back into the game to keep it going. A game as big as World of WarCraft is extremely hard to renew normally, but their success was anything but normal. They had the chance to make something great of it and they blew it sadly. I really hope things get better, and all kinds of players are given the content that they want to play, but I don't see anything changing in the near future.
    Last edited by Drithien; 2013-05-14 at 12:41 AM.

  8. #228
    Where are people getting the info which proves that NA/EU numbers are stable? Activision's stock dropped 5% after the last call. If China was really to blame then I would expect them to have said 79% or so was from China to remove the sting. NA/EU players probably spend a lot more on item shop, paid services etc. than players on game cards do. Investors aren't stupid. They know spin the instant they see it.

    The fanboy response was the same at 11 million, 10 million, 9 million, and now 8 million. At what number can we stop blaming the east and admit that the game is old and will keep dropping until its subs reflect that of an old game?

  9. #229
    Honestly? The best thing they could do to increase revenue reliably "subs" would be to license private servers. I would be willing to bet there's on the order of a million players in the world who regularly play some sort of emulation realm. What if Blizzard sold licenses and royalties to small developers who just want to take a piece of old code and spice it up a bit with their own flavor? Yes there would have to be some tough policing of the private servers (i.e., no KKK united servers, or Muslims Must Die realms), but they could honestly divert lots of their resources that are currently devoted to attempting to bring back players with nostalgia revamps. Imagine having 20% more development hours on quality, up to date content for retail, while you have nostalgia enthusiasts using their own resources to bring in that "on the fence" player base, while Blizzard still gets a good cut.

  10. #230
    Scarab Lord Conscious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talzar View Post
    Where are people getting the info which proves that NA/EU numbers are stable? Activision's stock dropped 5% after the last call. If China was really to blame then I would expect them to have said 79% or so was from China to remove the sting. NA/EU players probably spend a lot more on item shop, paid services etc. than players on game cards do. Investors aren't stupid. They know spin the instant they see it.
    Yeah see, that's what I don't get. Their stock wouldn't have taken such a punch if the overwhelming majority came from China. Considering the revenue difference, I'm willing to bet more than a third came from NA/EU.

    The fanboy response was the same at 11 million, 10 million, 9 million, and now 8 million. At what number can we stop blaming the east and admit that the game is old and will keep dropping until its subs reflect that of an old game?
    The game could have the population of these forums and people would still cry that is has more than 'xyz MMO'.

    Rather people should focus their energy not on denial of a problem, but potential solutions to it. We're all on the same ship.
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  11. #231
    Honestly, very little other than what they're doing already. It's just old. I'll probably still be playing 10 years from now if the servers are still running but not so many other people will. Same thing happened in D2 a few years after LOD. Who knows what we'll be playing then?

    Of course, easy answer is that they could go F2P. Obviously that would increase the sub count, but at the same time massively reduce the revenue they make and if you don't think that would have an impact on the game quality then you're living in a gumdrop house on lollipop lane.
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  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    When did they maintain a sub increase? There have been many complaints coming out of the East regarding MOP one of them being they used Japanese voice actors for the Pandaren surely they should have known better after the complaints when Pandaren artwork first surfaced featuring them wearing Samurai armour?
    WOTLK was fairly stable. May have had a tiny drop somewhere in there, but most people came back to see Arthas.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Talzar View Post
    Where are people getting the info which proves that NA/EU numbers are stable? Activision's stock dropped 5% after the last call. If China was really to blame then I would expect them to have said 79% or so was from China to remove the sting. NA/EU players probably spend a lot more on item shop, paid services etc. than players on game cards do. Investors aren't stupid. They know spin the instant they see it.

    The fanboy response was the same at 11 million, 10 million, 9 million, and now 8 million. At what number can we stop blaming the east and admit that the game is old and will keep dropping until its subs reflect that of an old game?
    Quote Originally Posted by Conscious View Post
    Yeah see, that's what I don't get. Their stock wouldn't have taken such a punch if the overwhelming majority came from China.
    What. Are. You. Talking. About???

    Investors don't give a shit where the subs are from. A sub is a sub, it's lost revenue. Stop trying to understand investor data from the perspective of a player (who presumably doesn't care about Chinese subs because he doesn't play on a Chinese server... not entirely sure why players care about subs at all frankly).

    And Chinese players spend less on the Blizz store? Where are you even getting that? That revenue is just icing on the cake anyway.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-14 at 01:54 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by rebecca191 View Post
    WOTLK was fairly stable. May have had a tiny drop somewhere in there, but most people came back to see Arthas.
    Well according to this graph:

    http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-1.png

    The first significant plateau/drop occurred around Wrath launch. Cata didn't hit until 2011, WoW peaked in 2009.

    So I guess you could say "stable" but really it looks more like subs continued to increase until Wrath was launched, then slowly declined with a little spike just before Cata launched.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  14. #234
    Scarab Lord Conscious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    What. Are. You. Talking. About???

    Investors don't give a shit where the subs are from. A sub is a sub, it's lost revenue. Stop trying to understand investor data from the perspective of a player (who presumably doesn't care about Chinese subs because he doesn't play on a Chinese server... not entirely sure why players care about subs at all frankly).

    And Chinese players spend less on the Blizz store? Where are you even getting that? That revenue is just icing on the cake anyway.
    Chinese players pay less than US/EU players.

    They don't pay nearly as much as we do, therefore losing those subscriptions shouldn't have made that big of a dent in a stock price.
    Looking to refund your Warlords of Draenor purchase? Contact Support chat directly - here.

    "We don't really have any idea what most players want." - GC

  15. #235
    I would think it's a pretty simple answer; Offer the players more.

    Whether thats new content, "cooler" content or a complete revamp of the game with variations in the current quests, zones and graphics.

    Personally, I'd reup just for some deeper quest and story content. Would be great to see some individual class quests/content added.

  16. #236
    If you listen to people who lament the good old days, WoW cannot stop losing subs, because Blizzard betrayed all that made WoW such a huge success during Vanilla and BC eras.

    If you listen to today's panda loving fanboys, WoW cannot stop losing subs, because it is too old and too much banged up to attract new players.

    This is the only time you'll see these two groups agree on one thing which is "WoW cannot stop losing subs".

    Cheers!

  17. #237
    Change....

  18. #238
    Blademaster Gamerguy3223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    There was an increase in Q3 and then the subs have fallen ever since MOP was released. I honestly don't know where you get racism from no-one has said it is racist only that it has not been well received in the East. As an Englishman I find the Worgen annoying as they speak with a Dick Van Dyke British accent and this the same kind of complaints I have read about the Pandaren speaking with a Japanese accent, it is not racist just annoying.
    Finally some one gets it.

  19. #239
    Increasing the level of immersion is the surest way of holding onto subs. If people feel they have a bigger commitment to the game they will feel less likely to leave. Such can be accomplished by removing the almost cliche subjects of LFR/LFD/CRZ. Cliche it might be, but it's still true. People feel less involved in the game and its community and have less friction in leaving when certain contingencies aren't evident.

  20. #240
    Space Ships.




    But Seriously, I think if they just keep releasing good content at a fast pace it will help. Along with adding new fun things to do outside of Raiding and PvPing. For example, customizable player housing and other things like that.

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