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  1. #201
    OP clearly doesn't comprehend English very well. I.E. none of my friends are online; I don't get to see content which is what GC is saying to what we actually have is 'none of my frieds are online, but that is okay becuase I can LFG/LFR without them.'

    Why are such simple concepts so hard for people to understand?

  2. #202
    They have indeed lost it.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    What do you think Blizz can do better, if anything, to combat toxic attitudes within the WoW community?
    Interesting Q. We removed the need for friends in order to see content, which is awesome, but we didn't insert anything in place.

    https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...77507831824385

    >> We removed the need for friends in order to see content, which is awesome

    >> awesome

    Anyone else that feels that this philosophy of not needing other people to play an MMO is absolute ... shite?

    Disclaimer: I'm literaly aversed against the philosophy that not needing friends (wether they are RL or online friends, made in the game) are not needed to see content. Wether they added the -option- to do it with other people (who are just a bunch of randoms) is beside the point. It just rubs me the wrong way how he said it was 'awesome'. I don't like the whole 'let's turn this mmo into a single player experience'-philosophy. Getting bunched up with a bunch of randomly selected people in a queue does nothing good to the game, nor does it make a game an MMO. If that was the case then SimCity can be called an MMO too.

    They removed the social aspect of the game when they removed the need for people to 'get to know' other people and 'make friends' with them.

    Do not take this OP out of context by assuming I'm Greg-bashing or am misunderstanding what I quoted. I guarantee you, I didn't.
    They don't understand this game at all. The people who come and stay are here because of friends and family. The more and more they try to remove social interaction in favor of another menu the less they hold players who come back. Sure, you can polish a turd and make it shiny each expansion and yes sheep will flock to see the shiny but after that they have no reason to stay. The people who hold wow together through ups and downs are here because of other people. Blizz is trying so hard to be like other games, which in turn kills what made them unique.

    I told GC in a tweet I still stand by, "Any more anti-social features you planning? Are you even the right person to bring people together?" Seems they think tossing a mount or pet will make up for this, problem is we havnt cared about those for a long time. As our friends grow away from WOW, so will we. It's just a shame this game never really knew why it was so successful. Nothing more than a lucky beggar who still values money over the friends he made even with a roof over his head and food in his stomach. Just let them kill it off, someone else will see things like facebook, twitter and wow, trace the faults and find the answer. It's a matter of time before an acceptable MMO that favors community comes outta the dark the way this group did, or what's left of them I mean.

    Tired of being mocked by overpaid blues who don't really care what we say anyway. We must be stupid people who only love blinking lights. God knows removing systems that brought people together is totally the right way to go. Wow can piss off for all I care after all I've had to read from these blue children. They have become too successful to ever really be successful again. They forgot what it takes and sold out to Activision business practice. WOW will continue to make decent money until it no longer does. The time has come for a new name and a new brand.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    Anyone else that feels that this philosophy of not needing other people to play an MMO is absolute ... shite?

    They removed the social aspect of the game when they removed the need for people to 'get to know' other people and 'make friends' with them.
    They added LFD and LFR to increase the number of people who can experience these contents. Before LFD I would maybe be able to run a dungeon once or twice a week. If I want to do that, I would need to spend about an hour spamming the trade for LFG. That hour spend is not what I would consider playing the game.

    Yes, I did join a guild. The usual scenario is once a guild tank or healer logins, the guild chat is spammed with asking the tank is run dungeons. So it is still spamming for a tank or healer but just with less people and privately within the guild.

    Making friends with people in dungeons? The general experience of this was the DPS asking if they can add the tank and healer to their friends list. This is to having a list of known tanks and healer to turn to get then to help the DPS to do a dungeon run. This not making friends because you like to play them. This is making to friends with people who can help you to further your own personal goals.

    LFR allow people to raid with no fixed schedule. Not everyone can dedicate a fixed time to play at certain time for a certain period. Even if they could, it may not be compatible with the other 9/24 players in the raid group. For these people with limited time, they can not afford to waste time pugging which can a long time to form. So these players are not able to experience the raids.

    LFD and LFR are not perfect. It has problems. But the advantage outweighs the disadvantages in my opinion.

    The above is my experience pre-LFD and pre-LFR. Yours will vary.

    If you have another solution to LFD and LFR which increases the number of people who experience these contents without any major drawbacks. I would love to hear them. And so would Blizzard and the community I gather.
    Last edited by kinneer; 2013-05-13 at 05:22 PM.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    But people do socialize in wow also still, it all comes down to what you want to do, and nowadays people are are presented with the option of either doing so or not.
    It's nothing like vanilla, TBC and Wrath.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baar View Post
    Speak for yourself. This is one of the main reasons I play wow. I have meet many good people on it also.

    If you want to be social the tools are there for you to be social.

    If you want to be a loner the tools are there to be a loner.


    In the end it is YOUR choice.
    People will always take the path of least resistance. Plus it's simply not worth the effort at the moment. Guild raiding isn't rewarding enough.

    If we met someone who was bitter and twisted in vanilla, TBC or Wrath we simply wouldn't group up with them because nobody liked them. Believe it or not but people change when they are made accountable for their actions.

  6. #206
    I'm happy to admit I do treat this a bit like a single player game......I don't get online enough to bother with guilds(other then perks guilds when Leveling salts) and I have no rl friends that play the game. I group using lfg when I need to but otherwise am quite happy doing my own thing enjoying the game. My question to the op is what makes you think you have the right to slander people for that? You say mmo should be this mmo should be that....well guess what my friend I pay the same monthly fee as you so I can play this game however the hell I want to! Mind your own business is what I'd suggest! Hell arrogant fools and qqers are one thing that makes me happy to play how I do....let's face it the wow `community` is one of the worst in gaming maturity and respectfulness wise....and why would I want to form friendships with people like that? Lol

  7. #207
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    The only people who misunderstood anything in this thread are the ones who are defending Blizzard in the assumed statement that they like the game not requiring other people to see all content. It's irony... they assume that the OP implies something, which it doesn't, then read the Blizzquote and instantly decide to defend whatever was said, without realizing that Blizzard is actually acknowledging that it was bad game design to implement LFR and LFD like they did -without- adding social incentives to compensate.
    We are simply going to have to disagree on that. It's clear to me that you want to concentrate on the first part and twist the meaning of that out of context. More power to you I guess. It's clear that you either didn't read what I wrote either or are deliberately deciding that the way you see it is the only possible way to see it. Others will disagree.

    P.S. I thought you were done with posting here or anywhere forevermore. Looks like you can examine some of your own statements.
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  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by getalife View Post
    wrong. ive done time...

    and you either "do you time like a man" grin and bear it.

    OR

    be a bitch, whine complain, and be miserable - blame your situation on everything and everyone else except yourself, which is what the WOW COMMUNITY is all about. Being a douche. AND if you be a bitch in jail or prison people will GIVE YOU AN ATTITUDE ADJUSTMENT REALLY QUICK.
    Doesn't this, like, mean exactly what you posted originally?
    Edit: to clarify.
    Doesn't this justify the man that says, I act antisocial cause the system works this way?
    Last edited by Djalil; 2013-05-13 at 05:27 PM.

  9. #209
    Immortal True Anarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    P.S. I thought you were done with posting here or anywhere forevermore. Looks like you can examine some of your own statements.
    I changed my mind after I got infracted for it.
    The cheapest form of pride is national pride. The man who possesses outstanding personal qualities will rather see most clearly the faults of his own nation, for he has them constantly before his eyes. But every miserable fool, who has nothing in the world whereof he could be proud, resorts to being proud of the very nation to which he belongs. In this he finds compensation and is now ready and thankful to defend, … all the faults and follies peculiar to it. - Schopenhauer

  10. #210
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    Mine. But you will find that I am quite a confident person so I have no problem with that.
    However, WoW isn't a party. People don't play WoW to meet other people anymore so your analogy is flawed.
    That's because his analogy was wrong.
    You should compare it to a bar.

    You don't complain that they aren't forcing you to talk to people :P

  11. #211
    You've lost it, OP.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    What do you think Blizz can do better, if anything, to combat toxic attitudes within the WoW community?
    Interesting Q. We removed the need for friends in order to see content, which is awesome, but we didn't insert anything in place.

    https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...77507831824385

    >> We removed the need for friends in order to see content, which is awesome

    >> awesome

    Anyone else that feels that this philosophy of not needing other people to play an MMO is absolute ... shite?

    Disclaimer: I'm literaly aversed against the philosophy that not needing friends (wether they are RL or online friends, made in the game) are not needed to see content. Wether they added the -option- to do it with other people (who are just a bunch of randoms) is beside the point. It just rubs me the wrong way how he said it was 'awesome'. I don't like the whole 'let's turn this mmo into a single player experience'-philosophy. Getting bunched up with a bunch of randomly selected people in a queue does nothing good to the game, nor does it make a game an MMO. If that was the case then SimCity can be called an MMO too.

    They removed the social aspect of the game when they removed the need for people to 'get to know' other people and 'make friends' with them.

    Do not take this OP out of context by assuming I'm Greg-bashing or am misunderstanding what I quoted. I guarantee you, I didn't.
    Your interpretation skills are terrible.

    What GC means is - they made it so players could see content without being forced to rely on friends/guildies.

    Meaning this: lets pretend you're in a great guild and you just love the people in it. Except, you work 2nd shift and they raid during that time. By the time you get home from work, they're done raiding and you missed out. This goes on for months, weeks, whatever, and you're like.... this sucks, I can't raid with my friends because of my job/schedule.

    What Blizzard has done with LFR/LFD (and this is the important part, listen closely) is give people like you the means to see raids and dungeons regardless. Of course its better that you do this stuff WITH friends, but Blizz gave you the means to do content without them if you don't have a choice. Blizz could just say 'well, if you can't raid with your guild, you're shit out of luck, sorry!' but no, they give pretty much everyone who will level cap/reach the required ilevel a means to see stuff and run stuff. And yet, people like you find a way to make that into something negative.

    That. Is. All. He. Meant. FFS.

    By 'didn't insert anything in place' he means, they haven't given us a way/reason to care about the random people we do end up with in LFR/LFD. Which isn't entirely true IMO, I've made some great new friends in them.

    Regardless that is what he meant. Twist it up if you want, misinterpret it if you choose. But for the love of god, everything GC tweets does not require a new topic on these forums.

  13. #213
    And on a side note, this GC statement is proof that he shouldn't be communicating with the playerbase via Twitter at. all.

    It's a shit platform to begin with, and statements like this should be used to communicate with players in the forums directly. All this sort of thing does is lead to further clarification being required later, given how prone folks are to read into things.

    Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler 11 May
    Not sure I'm following you. I think 25s are more fun and probably better for the game. But.

    I'm surprised this one hasn't caused a stir on the forums yet: "See, we told you 10 man isn't legit!"
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  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    Yeah... you need other 'tools' to see content. /facepalm ... sorry wait /doublefacepalm or tripple if I could...

    I'm sorry but this goes against everything an MMO stands for... That he even robustly admits it that you don't need to know anyone to see content in an MMO anymore is probably good for another boatload of people quiting the game after reading that.
    Because no one in any other MMO has ever solo-quested, and because you can now queue for normal and heroic raiding.
    /facepalm

  15. #215
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    And on a side note, this GC statement is proof that he shouldn't be communicating with the playerbase via Twitter at. all.

    It's a shit platform to begin with, and statements like this should be used to communicate with players in the forums directly. All this sort of thing does is lead to further clarification being required later, given how prone folks are to read into things.
    It's GhostCrawler :P
    He could write a 10-word sentence and than write an essay on each word to explain what the word means and people would STILL read other things into it.

    "The sky is blue!" - GC
    Forum: "GC hates rogues!".

  16. #216
    This is why I think they are losing so many subscribers. Friends are what keep you subscribed to the game.

  17. #217
    Yet more reading comprehension failure and having a panic attack over it. Stop it.

    GC is admitting that the LFG system is currently too easily a replacement for having 'friends' to play with instead of random people. He's correct on that subject. The problem is there's lack of incentive to play with people on your own realm due to the stacking buffs and conveniance, but simply removing them will cause more harm then good at this stage.

    Challenge Modes seem to be the answer from what I can tell - harder content that can only be done on your own server, and requires you to travel to the dungeon yourself. Problem is there's no incentive to do so for most people, no gear rewards!

    So here's my idea. Dump heroic dungeons out of LFG, balance normals to the same difficulty and gear level. Add in heroic dungeons that you can only do with people in your realm or on your friends list which are slightly more difficult and have slightly improved gear (let's say 463 for normals, 470 for heroics). A small buff, but it would encourage people to play with their guildmembers in order to get ready for raiding. Then have Challenge Modes as they currently are, with bags containing random LFR quality items with a small droprate if you complete the dungeon on Silver or better.

    Thus you get your quick fix dungeons with reasonable gear rewards and worthwhile guild activities. Win win.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalmar View Post
    Hm, how many friends did you make in PuG's and how many friends did you make in LFR?
    Roughly the same number, almost zero. Most of my wow-friends were made via guild chat, or friend-of-a-friend connections. PuGs were no more social than LFR, they just took longer to form.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    We are simply going to have to disagree on that. It's clear to me that you want to concentrate on the first part and twist the meaning of that out of context. More power to you I guess. It's clear that you either didn't read what I wrote either or are deliberately deciding that the way you see it is the only possible way to see it. Others will disagree.

    P.S. I thought you were done with posting here or anywhere forevermore. Looks like you can examine some of your own statements.
    And the best of it is his original statement sans disclaimer which he added a few pages in of ">> We removed the need for friends in order to see content, which is awesome
    >> awesome

    Anyone else that feels that this philosophy of not needing other people to play an MMO is absolute ... shite?" by the magic of his revisionist history becomes "they assume that the OP implies something, which it doesn't, then read the Blizzquote and instantly decide to defend whatever was said, without realizing that Blizzard is actually acknowledging that it was bad game design to implement LFR and LFD like they did -without- adding social incentives to compensate. " The OP has changed his mind about his one sentence opening statement has meant on at least three occasions over the course of eleven pages I'm not surprised he completely misses the boat on the meaning of other people's statements.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by hulkgor View Post
    When such game is an MMORPG, and you can experience it ENTIRELY (PvE, PvP, BGs, Raiding, Scenarios, leveling, outdoor faction tag bosses, etc), without ever, and i mean EVER interacting with any other player (and i mean any sort of interaction, talking, etc), yes, i find it absolutely absurd, considering it's supposed to be an MMORPG. The game thrived on its community\realm sense, now? That's non-existent. No wonder it's declining. Hell, you can even get legendaries now.

    Give me an example of ANY OTHER MMORPG like so, because sadly, i think WoW is at the vanguard of this absurd notion. Most are queue\grouping friendly, but World of Warcraft just takes the cake...
    Aren't GW2 and SWTOR like that, too?

    Anyways, for the introverted it's amazing. Plus, it means a majority instead of a minority are seeing content. The gaming public at large doesn't seem to jive with having to manually socialize to get anywhere in a videogame anymore. Take that for what you will. Gaming has changed a fair bit. I most certainly would probably no longer be able to play the game if they took these tools out. I frequently quit during BC through Cata, in spurts (with my time after WOTLK ended, till the end of Cata, being the longest I stayed away from the game), because, simply put, I had absolutely nothing to do. I can't imagine that's all that uncommon. I think it's kind of silly to assume Blizzard made all these things just for convenience. It's so people do the content they spend money to make, too. I don't particularly want to socialize with strangers, I want to interact with them and kill neat bosses. What's so wrong with that? Just because they're "not my friends", suddenly doesn't make them not humans. I don't know! It's no different than any other multiplayer game, really, only it has a whole lot more people in it!

    I also find this whole "The communities used to be so much better!". Yeah, maybe, if you were involved in the "community". Most weren't. Most people just leveled, then quit without finishing leveling, or leveled, got to cap, and didn't do much, then quit. Or leveled, then didn't have much to do, made some alts, then quit. Blizzard has SAID that's historically what people did, so it's not just some made up nonsense. If anything, the community being as restrictive and poisonous as it is caused the need for automatic grouping to exist.

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