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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Mortalomena View Post
    We have alot of smart heals, but when the spread raid dips low all we have is cooldowns for it. We COULD have a second resource that stacks up, then press a button that AoE heals/shields ppl. Then wed be a paladin?
    Eh, or a Monk - they also have a secondary resource. I don't know that giving every spec a secondary resource is really the answer. All that it does is adds balancing issues. Also, the cooldowns that we have for spread raid healing are going to suddenly become substandard in 25M the second 5.3 goes live unless they change their mind on buffing HTT.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by bigsav1 View Post
    http://www.raidbots.com/epeenbot/eu/...ion/ambulance/

    You're ok but i think you exaggerate just how good you are.
    And you're an ignorant who can't read and understand simultaneously.

    Btw. i just checked and what you linked proves my point exactly. If i'm able to pump numbers on tortos (a fight on which nothing limits you ) beyond 97 th percentile of the world, i quite possibly am not doing anything wrong... I do not consider myslef THE best player alive, please read entire post ffs.
    Last edited by Puhree; 2013-05-13 at 06:04 PM.

  3. #23
    OT : How does those percentile indicate of quality of player (I understand that they don't consider ilvl). If I'm ~90 percentile on normal is that good or not (520 ilvl)

  4. #24
    I've stuck with my resto shaman for a couple years now but the lack of help for the class by blizzard has pushed me away. It seems 10 man guilds are becoming the thing of the future on my realm and as a resto shaman it's very hard to compete with other healers.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-13 at 06:44 PM ----------

    Time to just roll a paladin and be done with it. At least that way I will be viable

  5. #25
    It doesn't consider anything but raw HPS or DPS relative to the HPS/DPS that all others of that spec on that fight produced during that week.

    For healers, percentile means very little compared to what it means for DPS, because of the following factors
    1. If your raid is better at avoiding damage than most raids, your numbers will be lower relative to the average (less to heal). The nature of Shaman mastery means that we take a bigger throughput hit from there being less to heal than any other class
    2. If you 6 heal a fight and most guilds 5 heal a fight, naturally that will bring down the percentile of every healer in your raid. That isn't saying it was the wrong choice to use an extra healer - if you have the DPS and it speeds up progression or farm clears, it very well may be, but it will affect healer numbers.
    3. Healing assignments can affect output significantly. Things like being assigned to primarily tank heal, dispel, etc. can have a huge impact on numbers
    4. Several fights including Sha of Fear, Ji-Kun, etc have platforms that are so far apart that WoL does not pick up. This skews numbers significantly depending on how much of the fight the healer in question was in range of the logger.
    5.Shaman that are heavily Spirit stacking for the benefit of the raid are generally sacrificing significant amounts of personal throughput. This may make their percentile scores lower than that of a Shaman going for the "selfish" personal throughput build.

    Healing percentile scores are generally completely useless. This is especially true for Resto Shaman, because of our Mastery that scales significantly the more damage the raid is taking. If you really want to compare throughput as a measure of healer skill, you have to look at how healers stack up against other healers in the same raid and then look at those numbers relative to how the classes are performing overall on that fight. For example, Raidbots shows that Resto Shaman average being 20% behind on Megaera 25H, and a Resto Shaman is 10% behind, chances are they are peforming better than the average level of their spec.

  6. #26
    Actually I'm ele shaman but reading resto topics out of couriosity :P (I used to heal but due to really bad position of it I switched)

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Dudko View Post
    OT : How does those percentile indicate of quality of player (I understand that they don't consider ilvl). If I'm ~90 percentile on normal is that good or not (520 ilvl)
    AGAIN. Read entire posts! How many times did i say "purely in terms of raw throughput" ?

  8. #28
    This thread reminded me alot of the "Class stereotypes" by Wowcrendor :P

    "We have nerfed shamans for the 10000th time because we dont like them"

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Dudko View Post
    OT : How does those percentile indicate of quality of player (I understand that they don't consider ilvl). If I'm ~90 percentile on normal is that good or not (520 ilvl)
    To get a very high percentile as a healer you need two things:
    -other healers can't be doing too much (it helps if some are dead / dps spec on accident or on purpose) OR the raid takes extra damage
    -you need to do your job well

    It requires both, at the 90th percentile level.

  10. #30
    Yesterday my guild started working on Animus in 25hc
    Logs: Where are they? http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/12695/ shows no Animus attempts. How can people even attempt to help you if you only provide them with "boohoo, monks are too gud"

    My rage thread
    Being angry about something is fine but if you direct that in the wrong way it will make you look like an ass. Which you manage to achieve by raging at a simple question


    On topic: The fact of the matter is Shaman raw throughput is very pretty damn good compared to almost all other healing classes. Monks have it good at the moment and it will get seen to eventually but it's the monks expansion and if they're doing their job you shouldn't begrudge how good they are. If you think you have it bad, you can come raid with my team. 2 Holy Paladins, 2 Disc Priests and a Monk for all of this tier. Absorbs ftl.

    Spread healing is a problem but there's nothing we can do about it till they rework us. That includes a massive overhaul of mastery too.

  11. #31
    Yeah spread healing is a problem but in 25 man there is a simple solution... heal the buzzangas out of melee so the priests/paladins/druids/monks spend their GCD's healed ranged for you.

    The raw healing is very much there. I like to joke that if they gave shaman's a glyph that gave them holy paladin mastery instead of their own then melee health bars would never move.

  12. #32
    pitkanen seems you know nothing about dark animus but melee is as well spread in first phases ... till massives are activated like 2 min into the fight.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puhree View Post
    I am sick with blizzard telling me that my spec is "just fine" because it's clearly not when i'm working thrice as hard as other healers and i cannot even get anywhere near them. I didn't want to be considered a mana totem so i didn't go for full spirit and it worked quite well for half of the content. Restoration isn't okay. It's terrible, and i want to state it very clearly so im bolding the shit out of the next statement.

    Restoration throughput is where it should be, however the healing toolkit is severely lacking spread healing tools.

    So to sum up: Our two, most powerful, core, healing spells are useless. Riptide has become somewhat obsolete since heart of fear. It's still useful as a instant healing spell so if you put the glyph on you get uhh something like a rejuvenation cast when your gear is broken? What makes up for 40 % of our healing is simply totems and cooldowns, whilst monk is just pressing uplift and spamming renewing mist (frustration LEVEL UP!)\

    Don't bother answering if you haven't read the ENTIRE post.

    I absolutely agree with you, Resto Shamans are missing an important wide range aoe raid heal from their healing spell toolkit and Blizz is stubbornly refusing even though every other healer has some 0-40yd aoe raid heal. It's BS.....even some spells that had certain limitations like pally's light of dawn have gotten major improvements to make them easier to use.

    I see two ways to solve this problem:

    1. Add a brand new aoe heal to fit that niche of "wide range, 0-40yd, raid heal"......my idea is something like the priest halo spell/graphic, a ring that goes outward from the shaman but once it reaches 40yds it bounces back inwards, like a ripple effect. This would be called "Ripple" to fit the water theme, a 10 sec CD or longer, and heal all raid members in both directions as well as smart heal the lowest 6 raid members.

    Would also buff Chain Heal up to 16yd jump radius from 12.5yd, so this is our "medium" range aoe heal...... currently HR is at 10yds and CHL at 12.5 yds which is too similar in range of healing for me....we should have a wide range heal "ripple", medium range smart heal with CHL, and narrow range stacked aoe heal with Healing Rain. This would balance our toolkit with some nice variety just like all the other healers get.


    2. The other idea I have (tho I prefer the first idea with Ripple spell) is to buff CHL to 18-20yd jump radius baseline and increase the number of jumps to 6 total as well as decrease the healing penalty of jumping (or remove it, or reverse it to slightly boost each next heal jump). This way HR is our stacked short range aoe heal, and CHL (with a wider and more effective jump) will be the medium to long range aoe raid heal.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Vashta View Post
    I feel your pain.

    Unfortunately it does seem to be that we have gotten to the point that we are just mana batteries for the other healers.
    its quite funny u said that, this week i re did my shami into a haste build from a crit build and ofc added more spr into my build to make up for the lost crit and the only thing people noticed abwt my healing despite the fact i was 5k+ extra on all fights was, and i quote hmm i ended that fight with more mana than other weeks.

  15. #35
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    I always felt crit build was bad for mana even with it calculated to be ok. And crits very often are overheal so its not that good for output either.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by daehin View Post
    pitkanen seems you know nothing about dark animus but melee is as well spread in first phases ... till massives are activated like 2 min into the fight.
    I totally said the "healing the spread on 25M" applied to every single fight... NOT. Dark Animus is terrible, Twins is also terrible since ranged actually take MORE damage than melee. Which is relevant for a few more weeks. What is so imminent you ask? The overgear button (valor upgrade) of course. I'm not excusing how terrible that fight is for shaman's however, or that shaman's lack the tools for it, but I am giving people the head's up that if you aren't already through half the heroics you'll probably have ~8 ilvls on the people that have killed it so far. So your raid will be able to blow through phase1 significantly faster and your healers will have a much easier time keeping up due to more gear + less time with little adds beating on everyone.

    In the long run, yes, shaman need a spread healing spell that shares a CD with healing rain (or resource sharing, but healing rain is too cheap to not use on CD which means mana is a no-go... that leaves unleashed elements buff as the only "resource"). IF shaman's had a powerful spread tool that didn't prevent Healing Rain full-power usage then stacked healing will be too powerful.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Pitkanen View Post

    In the long run, yes, shaman need a spread healing spell that shares a CD with healing rain (or resource sharing, but healing rain is too cheap to not use on CD which means mana is a no-go... that leaves unleashed elements buff as the only "resource"). IF shaman's had a powerful spread tool that didn't prevent Healing Rain full-power usage then stacked healing will be too powerful.
    Something like: remove the 30% extra heal from UE for Healing Rain (make it 15% baseline or sth like that to compensate for the fact, that most of the time we use Healing Rain with UE), and give UE the effect "Increases the healing of your next direct healing spell by 30% and increases the radius of Healing Rain by 300% (from 10y radius to 40y), but decreases its effect by 30% (just random number here as example, balanced around other classes aoe heals.)". It should be strong, because it would have a ~17 sec cd(and 2gcds) for a 10 sec aoe heal.

    So that the stacked Healing Rain is still way superior to the spread version.

    Probably buff the effect of UE for the single heal by alot(maybe free or sth like that), to not make it only usefull for healing raid usage (like it is now on live). Would like to see it as a part of our rotation, maybe different effect for each healing spell.
    Last edited by Genju; 2013-05-16 at 12:53 PM.

  18. #38
    Interesting story about myself and how terrible resto shaman is since, oh well, cataclysm and the introduction of that putrid thing called mastery for our spec:

    Hi, I am currently a raid leader in my guild and playing a resto shaman. We are on Lei Shen 25 heroic, we are 5 healing it and I shit you not, but I proposed to sit myself out of this fight. Our comp is:

    2 holy paladins
    1 disc priest
    1 monk
    1 resto druid

    Yes, I decided to give the almost equally broken (in 25 man only) resto druid class a shot before me because it's not hard to figure that he would vastly outperform me in P3 during the wind phases in addition to be able to soak a static shock all by himself through symbiosis on a hunter (which gives him deterrence). On top of that, Lei Shen heroic seems to be one of the rare heroic fights where mana doesn't seem to be an issue up until phase 3 at least.
    Having stated my point I hope, we have 2 options, my fellow resto shaman friends. You can either:

    1) Read vixsin blog on lifeingroup5.com, stay positive and confident, work your ass off to squeeze any tiny bit of HPS possible and hope that Blizzard will open their eyes and make some creative changes to our class so we can finally become competitive on fights where we are not stacked like sardines and taking massive amounts of raid damage (Iron Qon last phase wink wink). But I would not get my hopes too high about the creative changes part, since Blizzard somehow believes that "we are fine".

    2) Adopt the mentality "if you can't beat them, join them". That's what every well organized top raiding guild is doing with DPS and tanks so why should it be different for healers? I am glad to say that my raid group is steadily progressing on Lei Shen heroic, getting to P2 transitions most of the time after only two nights of progression, so it's not like my supposedly incredible cooldowns are making a difference right?

    So, to those who will keep playing their resto shamans for 5.4, well, you better go light some candles at your local church and pray that Blizzard will design their next raid bosses like Dragon Soul's or you will experience another tier of uselessness and mediocrity.

  19. #39
    i dont know about Lei Shen Heroic, but Method used a Resto Shaman for their firstkill.
    Unfortunetly, he was the Manabitch für the other 2(or3) Healer (H-Palas).

    If it wasnt for the wasted Itemslot (Int-mail) or the amount of time it needs to get the legendary meta (which makes rerolling so much worse), i would have changed my class in a heartbeat.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Genju View Post
    i dont know about Lei Shen Heroic, but Method used a Resto Shaman for their firstkill.
    Unfortunetly, he was the Manabitch für the other 2(or3) Healer (H-Palas).

    If it wasnt for the wasted Itemslot (Int-mail) or the amount of time it needs to get the legendary meta (which makes rerolling so much worse), i would have changed my class in a heartbeat.
    Indeed, that's why he was using that horrible trinket from Primordius that no sane healer should ever equip. As for the legendary meta, it won't be as bad next patch to progress through the questline, sigils will be easier to get and the valor grind will be reduced to 3000 VP.

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