Btw. i just checked and what you linked proves my point exactly. If i'm able to pump numbers on tortos (a fight on which nothing limits you ) beyond 97 th percentile of the world, i quite possibly am not doing anything wrong... I do not consider myslef THE best player alive, please read entire post ffs.
Last edited by Puhree; 2013-05-13 at 06:04 PM.
OT : How does those percentile indicate of quality of player (I understand that they don't consider ilvl). If I'm ~90 percentile on normal is that good or not (520 ilvl)
I've stuck with my resto shaman for a couple years now but the lack of help for the class by blizzard has pushed me away. It seems 10 man guilds are becoming the thing of the future on my realm and as a resto shaman it's very hard to compete with other healers.
---------- Post added 2013-05-13 at 06:44 PM ----------
Time to just roll a paladin and be done with it. At least that way I will be viable
It doesn't consider anything but raw HPS or DPS relative to the HPS/DPS that all others of that spec on that fight produced during that week.
For healers, percentile means very little compared to what it means for DPS, because of the following factors
1. If your raid is better at avoiding damage than most raids, your numbers will be lower relative to the average (less to heal). The nature of Shaman mastery means that we take a bigger throughput hit from there being less to heal than any other class
2. If you 6 heal a fight and most guilds 5 heal a fight, naturally that will bring down the percentile of every healer in your raid. That isn't saying it was the wrong choice to use an extra healer - if you have the DPS and it speeds up progression or farm clears, it very well may be, but it will affect healer numbers.
3. Healing assignments can affect output significantly. Things like being assigned to primarily tank heal, dispel, etc. can have a huge impact on numbers
4. Several fights including Sha of Fear, Ji-Kun, etc have platforms that are so far apart that WoL does not pick up. This skews numbers significantly depending on how much of the fight the healer in question was in range of the logger.
5.Shaman that are heavily Spirit stacking for the benefit of the raid are generally sacrificing significant amounts of personal throughput. This may make their percentile scores lower than that of a Shaman going for the "selfish" personal throughput build.
Healing percentile scores are generally completely useless. This is especially true for Resto Shaman, because of our Mastery that scales significantly the more damage the raid is taking. If you really want to compare throughput as a measure of healer skill, you have to look at how healers stack up against other healers in the same raid and then look at those numbers relative to how the classes are performing overall on that fight. For example, Raidbots shows that Resto Shaman average being 20% behind on Megaera 25H, and a Resto Shaman is 10% behind, chances are they are peforming better than the average level of their spec.
Actually I'm ele shaman but reading resto topics out of couriosity :P (I used to heal but due to really bad position of it I switched)
This thread reminded me alot of the "Class stereotypes" by Wowcrendor :P
"We have nerfed shamans for the 10000th time because we dont like them"
-other healers can't be doing too much (it helps if some are dead / dps spec on accident or on purpose) OR the raid takes extra damage
-you need to do your job well
It requires both, at the 90th percentile level.
Logs: Where are they? http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/12695/ shows no Animus attempts. How can people even attempt to help you if you only provide them with "boohoo, monks are too gud"Yesterday my guild started working on Animus in 25hc
Being angry about something is fine but if you direct that in the wrong way it will make you look like an ass. Which you manage to achieve by raging at a simple questionMy rage thread
On topic: The fact of the matter is Shaman raw throughput is very pretty damn good compared to almost all other healing classes. Monks have it good at the moment and it will get seen to eventually but it's the monks expansion and if they're doing their job you shouldn't begrudge how good they are. If you think you have it bad, you can come raid with my team. 2 Holy Paladins, 2 Disc Priests and a Monk for all of this tier. Absorbs ftl.
Spread healing is a problem but there's nothing we can do about it till they rework us. That includes a massive overhaul of mastery too.
Yeah spread healing is a problem but in 25 man there is a simple solution... heal the buzzangas out of melee so the priests/paladins/druids/monks spend their GCD's healed ranged for you.
The raw healing is very much there. I like to joke that if they gave shaman's a glyph that gave them holy paladin mastery instead of their own then melee health bars would never move.
I absolutely agree with you, Resto Shamans are missing an important wide range aoe raid heal from their healing spell toolkit and Blizz is stubbornly refusing even though every other healer has some 0-40yd aoe raid heal. It's BS.....even some spells that had certain limitations like pally's light of dawn have gotten major improvements to make them easier to use.
I see two ways to solve this problem:
1. Add a brand new aoe heal to fit that niche of "wide range, 0-40yd, raid heal"......my idea is something like the priest halo spell/graphic, a ring that goes outward from the shaman but once it reaches 40yds it bounces back inwards, like a ripple effect. This would be called "Ripple" to fit the water theme, a 10 sec CD or longer, and heal all raid members in both directions as well as smart heal the lowest 6 raid members.
Would also buff Chain Heal up to 16yd jump radius from 12.5yd, so this is our "medium" range aoe heal...... currently HR is at 10yds and CHL at 12.5 yds which is too similar in range of healing for me....we should have a wide range heal "ripple", medium range smart heal with CHL, and narrow range stacked aoe heal with Healing Rain. This would balance our toolkit with some nice variety just like all the other healers get.
2. The other idea I have (tho I prefer the first idea with Ripple spell) is to buff CHL to 18-20yd jump radius baseline and increase the number of jumps to 6 total as well as decrease the healing penalty of jumping (or remove it, or reverse it to slightly boost each next heal jump). This way HR is our stacked short range aoe heal, and CHL (with a wider and more effective jump) will be the medium to long range aoe raid heal.
I always felt crit build was bad for mana even with it calculated to be ok. And crits very often are overheal so its not that good for output either.
In the long run, yes, shaman need a spread healing spell that shares a CD with healing rain (or resource sharing, but healing rain is too cheap to not use on CD which means mana is a no-go... that leaves unleashed elements buff as the only "resource"). IF shaman's had a powerful spread tool that didn't prevent Healing Rain full-power usage then stacked healing will be too powerful.
So that the stacked Healing Rain is still way superior to the spread version.
Probably buff the effect of UE for the single heal by alot(maybe free or sth like that), to not make it only usefull for healing raid usage (like it is now on live). Would like to see it as a part of our rotation, maybe different effect for each healing spell.
Last edited by Genju; 2013-05-16 at 12:53 PM.
Interesting story about myself and how terrible resto shaman is since, oh well, cataclysm and the introduction of that putrid thing called mastery for our spec:
Hi, I am currently a raid leader in my guild and playing a resto shaman. We are on Lei Shen 25 heroic, we are 5 healing it and I shit you not, but I proposed to sit myself out of this fight. Our comp is:
2 holy paladins
1 disc priest
1 resto druid
Yes, I decided to give the almost equally broken (in 25 man only) resto druid class a shot before me because it's not hard to figure that he would vastly outperform me in P3 during the wind phases in addition to be able to soak a static shock all by himself through symbiosis on a hunter (which gives him deterrence). On top of that, Lei Shen heroic seems to be one of the rare heroic fights where mana doesn't seem to be an issue up until phase 3 at least.
Having stated my point I hope, we have 2 options, my fellow resto shaman friends. You can either:
1) Read vixsin blog on lifeingroup5.com, stay positive and confident, work your ass off to squeeze any tiny bit of HPS possible and hope that Blizzard will open their eyes and make some creative changes to our class so we can finally become competitive on fights where we are not stacked like sardines and taking massive amounts of raid damage (Iron Qon last phase wink wink). But I would not get my hopes too high about the creative changes part, since Blizzard somehow believes that "we are fine".
2) Adopt the mentality "if you can't beat them, join them". That's what every well organized top raiding guild is doing with DPS and tanks so why should it be different for healers? I am glad to say that my raid group is steadily progressing on Lei Shen heroic, getting to P2 transitions most of the time after only two nights of progression, so it's not like my supposedly incredible cooldowns are making a difference right?
So, to those who will keep playing their resto shamans for 5.4, well, you better go light some candles at your local church and pray that Blizzard will design their next raid bosses like Dragon Soul's or you will experience another tier of uselessness and mediocrity.
i dont know about Lei Shen Heroic, but Method used a Resto Shaman for their firstkill.
Unfortunetly, he was the Manabitch für the other 2(or3) Healer (H-Palas).
If it wasnt for the wasted Itemslot (Int-mail) or the amount of time it needs to get the legendary meta (which makes rerolling so much worse), i would have changed my class in a heartbeat.