Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
LastLast
  1. #21
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    757
    Quote Originally Posted by manamonster View Post
    Two things I notice in your analysis as being iffy. First of all, WrathCalcs is great for a rough estimation, but it will never hold up against Simcraft. Since Simcraft can literally run hundreds of thousands of sims and give you an average, it will always be more accurate (in addition to giving you multiple scenarios like modeling Movement in a fight).

    You also admit that the 1.6% difference is too close to count. End of the day, WrathCalcs doesn't account for trinket procs (outside of averages), movement, etc. The reason Berserking is better as a racial is because it stacks multiplicatively with other buffs --- not because it is a "average haste" throughout the fight (as some websites try to compare when comparing different racials). Since Simcraft tries to model as if you're in the actual game, casting every spell, while account for randomness and RNG, it is much more accurate. It will run 250,000+ simulations of fights with / without movement and actually account for multiplicative bonuses with buffs. Especially since the introduction of RPPM trinkets (and weapon buffs), tools like WrathCalcs become even less accurate. There's no way (that I know) to accurately model something that can be as horribly random as a RPPM trinket with an Excel spreadsheet.
    WrathCalcs models the RPPM trinkets pretty well with the uptime distribution Hamlet put in for it - in fact, I wouldn't be surprised SimCraft uses the same formulas to check for when the RPPM trinkets/meta proc per unit time during their calculations (side note: Hamlet used a poisson distribution to account for procs overlapping, more info here: http://iam.yellingontheinternet.com/...advanced-rppm/). We have to remember that WrathCalcs is a steady state of our DPS over a set amount of time, without taking into account movement/stacking of certain cooldowns. It still stacks Inc/CA/NV, so most of the stacking is apparent. But you'd be correct in saying trinket procs get averaged instead of applied directly into cooldowns. I understand a tool like SimCraft can do that, but then again we're assuming SimCraft has the correct priority for boomkins and stays up-to-date with theorycrafting changes we are constantly revising, including the recent opener change.

    What I'm trying to get at is both tools are relevant to our needs. WrathCalcs is good for quick gear changes, modelling our steady state DPS for any baseline fight, and is good to springboard logical ideas from, but lacks in the area of stacking buffs outside of our own as well as not showing hard numbers for multiple targets. SimCraft is great for looking at specific fights with movement and additional targets, can model the multiplying effect of buffs overlapping, but isn't always up-to-date with our spec and might have other shortcomings I'm not aware of.

    What's funny is that SimCraft generally agrees with the results of WrathCalcs when you extrapolate the ideas into the dimension of more targets + light movement. In average normal gear (~523 ilvl), if we have a look at the marginal stat changes as we increase targets we can get a better feel for the symbiotic relationship between the two models. I've also included total DPS and SS proc waste for fun.

    One thing to note is that I needed to change buff.shooting_stars.react to buff.shooting_stars.up in order to get reasonable amounts of SS proc waste. On top of that, I also added "interrupt_if=buff.shooting_stars.up" to the end of the four Starfire/Wrath lines, so that it properly interrupts our hardcasts if we get a SS proc. Without these changes, SimCraft reported 88% SS proc waste for 4 targets, which is preposterous. This largely devalues the value of crit, so the default SimCraft isn't as accurate as you'd believe. SS proc waste with the changes is still pretty high, but reasonable.

    Crit build (5802 haste, 11894 crit):

    targets 1 2 3 4
    DPS 154648 204406 230201 255011
    Int 5.48 7.18 7.99 8.83
    Haste 3.51 5.14 6.15 7.22
    Crit 2.51 3.43 3.48 4.10
    Mastery 2.50 3.02 3.46 4.32
    SS proc waste 24% 37% 56% 67%

    Haste build (10307 haste, 7389 crit):

    targets 1 2 3 4
    DPS 159190 208607 236659 257616
    Int 5.57 7.39 8.22 8.93
    Haste 2.65 3.00 2.84 2.44
    Crit 2.72 3.77 3.98 4.15
    Mastery 2.53 3.35 3.55 4.14
    SS proc waste 15% 32% 48% 60%

    So after an hour of simming, what can we conclude from these tables? For a crit build, we can see the value of haste is much higher than the value of crit per point, and this gap is widened by the number of targets. This is a very significant outcome, especially since haste even approaches the value of int per point. SS proc waste is high with a crit build, as you would suspect, but this may be due to some unknown inadequacies in SimCraft. Regardless, they are within the realm of reason.

    For the haste build, SS proc waste is almost exactly what I've seen on World of Logs for boomkins running a haste build. If we say the average amount of targets on Council is 3, then some anecdotal evidence from my last Council kill is spot-on (48% recorded SS proc waste - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=4891&e=5154). Additionally, we see haste decreasing in value per point as targets increase, which is exactly what we expected to happen. Since we have already reached the GCD cap for haste at this point, more points of haste don't help to speed up our rotation if we spend most of our time using SS procs or DoTing. Additional haste is great when you aren't at the GCD cap since it allows you to DoT faster and hopefully reduce SS proc waste with the shortening of the GCD, but once you hit the 10296 cap more points wont contribute to that factor at all. Therefore, after the cap, haste is helping us mostly on our hard casts, but we're getting so many SS procs with more targets this too is reduced. Thus, we expect the value of haste to diminish as more targets are added when already GCD capped. We also see crit being our best stat with a haste build as well, with mastery close behind.

    After looking at this data, we can see that SimCraft has essentially agreed with all the extrapolation we made from WrathCalcs. We have been looking at the base single-target, no movement modelling in WrathCalcs and finding haste is significantly ahead of crit until the GCD cap, whereby crit moves ahead. We have also taken crit to increase more than the other stats when considering more targets, which is not entirely supported by SimCraft, more so our own logical conclusions. Regardless, once you are capped, crit is the best stat you can stack, though I'm not sure on how accurate SimCraft is being with mastery. It's understandable that SimCraft shows mastery to be higher than purported in WrathCalcs since it would be benefitting from the simulation's stacking buffs and whatnot, and it reasons that with more targets you spend more time eclipsed (SS procs power through non-eclipse phases). Might need to ensure the modelling SimCraft does is completely accurate before we draw any conclusions on that point.

    Anyway, lengthy post and mostly directed generally. I think the biggest thing to take from all this is not the actual DPS numbers between the two builds, but the vast differences between the marginal changes in stats. Int seems disproportionately large in the haste build, but that may be true. Haste is quite a strong stat, and does indeed scale well with more targets.

    As always, let me know if you see any gross errors and I'll work to correct them.

  2. #22
    Moderator Stommped's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Chicago, Illinois
    Posts
    1,822
    Interesting that in the 10307 Haste build, 1 int > 2 crit in all situations except 2 targets. Meaning those who use the haste build should consider Brilliants over Potents and Potents over Smooths.

  3. #23
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    757
    Quote Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
    Interesting that in the 10307 Haste build, 1 int > 2 crit in all situations except 2 targets. Meaning those who use the haste build should consider Brilliants over Potents and Potents over Smooths.
    Yeah I noticed that as well. It's something to consider, and I'll look into it further over the next couple of days. It would become more prevalent with gear, judging by the way the ratio increases.

  4. #24
    Field Marshal
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    74
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    One thing to note is that I needed to change buff.shooting_stars.react to buff.shooting_stars.up in order to get reasonable amounts of SS proc waste. On top of that, I also added "interrupt_if=buff.shooting_stars.up" to the end of the four Starfire/Wrath lines, so that it properly interrupts our hardcasts if we get a SS proc. Without these changes, SimCraft reported 88% SS proc waste for 4 targets, which is preposterous. This largely devalues the value of crit, so the default SimCraft isn't as accurate as you'd believe. SS proc waste with the changes is still pretty high, but reasonable.
    I would not say there are any fights where 4 targets is a viable option. On Heroic Council if you're dotting 4 targets you're just padding meters. I'm lucky if I'm able to dot 2 targets between consuming SS procs and handling utility jobs (killing adds and whatnot). Though this might change if you were assigned to "stand still and DPS". Unfortunately (or fortunately?) too many fights revolve around movement and usage of your utility spells which I feel are inadequately modeled by WrathCalcs.

    Saying you should interrupt a hard cast to use SS I believe is incorrect. Especially if you are nearing the GCD of 1s cast times there is no point in interrupting your cast to consume a SS proc. That is a waste of DPS.

    I'll have to run some more sims to compare my results to yours.

  5. #25
    Thanks for the feedback on my stuff, manamonster. I share some of your concerns about WrathCalcs, especially the lack of a good model for movement. So I decided to see how the difference between the two builds looks on a few different fight styles in SimCraft.

    With my gear (524 ilvl), I compared a full crit build and a haste build meeting the 10289 breakpoint using WrathCalcs and SimCraft. For SimCraft, I looked at a one target fight with the default settings and rotation with 10,000 iterations (gave 95% CIs of ~0.1% of the total dps).

    Crit build: 11979 crit, 6364 haste
    Haste build: 8017 crit, 10326 haste

    Crit build dps Haste build dps % increase
    WrathCalcs
    0% shooting star waste
    162331 164012 1.04
    10%
    159016 161181 1.36
    20%
    155797 158447 1.70
    30%
    152711 155820 2.04
    SimCraft
    Raid dummy
    158806 162855 2.55
    Patchwerk
    158484 161789 2.09
    Light movement
    154751 158075 2.15
    Heavy movement
    130776 132241 1.12
    Helter skelter
    132534 134906 1.79

    So for me, meeting the 10289 haste breakpoint is a dps boost in SimCraft against a single target, even using the heavy movement fight style. This agrees with what I found using WrathCalcs. Again though, the differences are small enough that I'll probably just end up going with whichever build feels more fun to play. I'm trying out a haste build now and I've been enjoying it so far.

    What fight style did you use for your sims with more targets, Slippkins? How does the rotation end up working out? Can you tell it to only apply eclipsed dots to each target?
    Last edited by Tarm; 2013-05-16 at 12:10 AM.

  6. #26
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    757
    Quote Originally Posted by manamonster View Post
    I would not say there are any fights where 4 targets is a viable option. On Heroic Council if you're dotting 4 targets you're just padding meters. I'm lucky if I'm able to dot 2 targets between consuming SS procs and handling utility jobs (killing adds and whatnot). Though this might change if you were assigned to "stand still and DPS". Unfortunately (or fortunately?) too many fights revolve around movement and usage of your utility spells which I feel are inadequately modeled by WrathCalcs.

    Saying you should interrupt a hard cast to use SS I believe is incorrect. Especially if you are nearing the GCD of 1s cast times there is no point in interrupting your cast to consume a SS proc. That is a waste of DPS.

    I'll have to run some more sims to compare my results to yours.
    Heroic Horridon has plenty of 4 target opportunities, Heroic Council isn't padding if you are prioritising SS procs over uneclipsed DoTs, Primordius will be many, many more than 4 targets at one time assuming you're doing adds. Point wasn't to say 4 targets is standard, more to emphasise that these trends are seen for more than 2 or 3 targets.

    Are we talking about "what you should be doing" or practicalities? In a raid you should be aiming to do your theoretical maximum, and WrathCalcs finds your theoretical average - that's what all sims set out to simulate. Using your utility spells is obviously going to hamper your DPS, but why should we consider the use of them if all they do is reduce our damage? In the perfect fight, you aim to minimise movement and you wont have to use your utility spells, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say. There's no way to say "well in a normal fight you'll do an average of 1 Tranquility, 3 Solar Beams and 2 Vortexes," because this is entirely situational and not applicable to your DPS.

    Interrupting hardcasts has been a point of contention for two tiers now, would have thought you've seen the discussions abound on many of the forums. General consensus is interrupting a Wrath is typically advantageous, while interrupting a Starfire should only occur very early in the cast. Remember that once you interrupt a spell, your GCD completely resets and allows you to cast immediately. The point is that if you don't interrupt the cast, you have a chance of losing a SS proc by waiting for the spell to conclude. The old saying of "never interrupt your casts" is not always true. SimCraft showed it as a DPS increase anyway, so take that as you will.

    Also, it's odd you bring up council. Padding would imply useless damage, yet any DoTs you throw on any of the targets will do their full damage and the damage wont just disappear, unlike Megaera or Protectors. Any damage is good damage on that fight, and your single target spells should be directed at the kill target, whatever that is (add, empowered boss). Your job as a DPS is to do the maximum you can without detriment to the raid - the only point you shouldn't be multidotting on Council is if a boss will likely reach 100 energy without additional single-target damage from yourself.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-15 at 05:17 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarm View Post
    What fight style did you use for your sims with more targets, Slippkins? How does the rotation end up working out? Can you tell it to only apply eclipsed dots to each target?
    I used LightMovement for all my sims, 1 to 4 targets. Rotation ends up being a lot of SS spam, as I put it being the highest priority spell, just to reduce a bit of the SS proc waste inflation I saw. I didn't set it to only use eclipsed DoTs for the 4 target fight - the priority is eclipsed DoT > SS proc > uneclipsed DoT in theory, but because SimCraft was showing so much inflation I made SS proc higher. Doesn't really change much, you need DoTs to get SS procs anyway, and your eclipsed DoTs would take priority there.

    I've been using a haste build for a couple of weeks now and I've enjoyed the sense of speed you have with 1 second GCDs.
    Last edited by Slippykins; 2013-05-16 at 12:33 AM.

  7. #27
    What was your crit at right before you switched Slippy? Do you ever miss the amount of starsurge procs you got during movement from before you switched?

  8. #28
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    757
    Quote Originally Posted by dark666105 View Post
    What was your crit at right before you switched Slippy? Do you ever miss the amount of starsurge procs you got during movement from before you switched?
    I swapped to haste at around 10.8k crit rating. I noticed the drop in SS procs, but I try to move as little as possible. I still get SS procs during movement, just not as frequently. I don't find myself moving around much on fights, and I try to align movement with refreshing DoTs to negate some of it. Works out most of the time.

  9. #29
    Field Marshal
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    74
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    Heroic Horridon has plenty of 4 target opportunities
    Depends on your raid I guess. I could see an argument for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    Heroic Council isn't padding if you are prioritising SS procs over uneclipsed DoTs
    Council is tightly tuned (if you're 3 healing at least) and wasting time dotting extra mobs (beyond 2) is usually a DPS loss for your main burn target which causes your raid to push in to the Dark Power and wipe. Tab targeting and dotting everything runs the risk of not pushing the empowered boss fast enough. Guess it depends on your raid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    Primordius will be many, many more than 4 targets at one time assuming you're doing adds.
    I think most guilds use a Lock, but valid point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    Are we talking about "what you should be doing" or practicalities? In a raid you should be aiming to do your theoretical maximum, and WrathCalcs finds your theoretical average - that's what all sims set out to simulate. Using your utility spells is obviously going to hamper your DPS, but why should we consider the use of them if all they do is reduce our damage? In the perfect fight, you aim to minimise movement and you wont have to use your utility spells, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say. There's no way to say "well in a normal fight you'll do an average of 1 Tranquility, 3 Solar Beams and 2 Vortexes," because this is entirely situational and not applicable to your DPS.
    What I'm saying is that modeling a fight with a static stand-still model (or light movement which most fights in this tier aren't) I feel isn't very good. I usually sim with Helter Skleter setting since most fights this tier are very movement heavy. The reason I mentioned utility spells was that they are essentially the same thing as movement to your DPS - a waste of DPS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    Interrupting hardcasts has been a point of contention for two tiers now, would have thought you've seen the discussions abound on many of the forums. General consensus is interrupting a Wrath is typically advantageous, while interrupting a Starfire should only occur very early in the cast. Remember that once you interrupt a spell, your GCD completely resets and allows you to cast immediately. The point is that if you don't interrupt the cast, you have a chance of losing a SS proc by waiting for the spell to conclude. The old saying of "never interrupt your casts" is not always true. SimCraft showed it as a DPS increase anyway, so take that as you will.
    If your GCD is near 1s and you spend .5s interrupting your cast you're wasting DPS in my opinion. Add in server lag and everything and I just don't see a point. Your GCD resets but still requires you to hit your button 2 times ... server lag + time spent casting .... just seems like no point to cancel your cast. But I could be wrong .

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    Also, it's odd you bring up council. Padding would imply useless damage, yet any DoTs you throw on any of the targets will do their full damage and the damage wont just disappear, unlike Megaera or Protectors. Any damage is good damage on that fight, and your single target spells should be directed at the kill target, whatever that is (add, empowered boss). Your job as a DPS is to do the maximum you can without detriment to the raid - the only point you shouldn't be multidotting on Council is if a boss will likely reach 100 energy without additional single-target damage from yourself.
    This happens consistently in my raid (and even in raids I saw with 2 heals). Whenever people fail to switch on time we generally hit Dark Power. My point is that dotting 3-4 targets on Heroic Council I feel is misplaced DPS. But you seem to generally agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    I've been using a haste build for a couple of weeks now and I've enjoyed the sense of speed you have with 1 second GCDs.
    I'm going to try the haste build next week and see how it feels / compare my #s.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by manamonster View Post
    Depends on your raid I guess. I could see an argument for it.

    I'm going to try the haste build next week and see how it feels / compare my #s.
    Haste suck like hell in a real-raid-environment. Only on paper it shines. Going full crit is the only way to go in 5.2 if you want to maximise your dps.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitestrife View Post
    Haste suck like hell in a real-raid-environment. Only on paper it shines. Going full crit is the only way to go in 5.2 if you want to maximise your dps.
    Not really that black and white imo. It's been said a lot, but a good bit of the crit vs haste argument comes down to personal preference. I prefer crit, others prefer haste. Both are capable of pretty equivalent dps (haste is slightly higher on paper) assuming proper play.

  12. #32
    High Overlord zen0x's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    193
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitestrife View Post
    Haste suck like hell in a real-raid-environment. Only on paper it shines. Going full crit is the only way to go in 5.2 if you want to maximise your dps.
    When you reach a certain amount of crit (13k+) your wasted starsurge procs will be so high that haste becomes the better stat. I recently switched from 13,7k crit and 7,8k haste to 10,6k crit/10,3k haste and now I don't waste as many procs especially on multi target fights. My DPS went up a bit and the transition between eclipses is much smoother. I'd really recommend going for the 2nd haste breakpoint/GCD cap when you reach a high enough amount of crit.
    Join the Dark Side, they haz cookies!



    Atheism and religion are two sides of the same coin. One uses its head, where the other relies on tales.

  13. #33
    Moderator Stommped's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Chicago, Illinois
    Posts
    1,822
    Quote Originally Posted by manamonster View Post
    I think most guilds use a Lock, but valid point.


    If your GCD is near 1s and you spend .5s interrupting your cast you're wasting DPS in my opinion. Add in server lag and everything and I just don't see a point. Your GCD resets but still requires you to hit your button 2 times ... server lag + time spent casting .... just seems like no point to cancel your cast. But I could be wrong .
    In 25 man raids Moonkin will get used every time if they are present, so it's definitely considered a 4 target fight.

    As far as cancelling your casts, I arleady posted this in the Moonkin Guide thread, but with napkin math I compared two rotations in a high SS proc situation: Starfire, Instant SS, Starfire, Instant SS, Starfire vs. Cancelling your Starfire cast for an Instant SS x5. The break even point in terms of DPS was right around .7 seconds, meaning that if you cancelled your Starfire in the 2nd rotation before .7 seconds it was a DPS gain. Assuming you don't have a SS proc the moment you start casting Starfire (if you do then it's just poor play), then reacting to a new SS proc and cancelling your Starfire to cast it will be tough in .7 seconds given human reaction time and latency.

    This situation isn't perfect obviously, but there is countless scenarios to consider if you cancel a Starfire that makes it difficult to compare the value in a vacuum.

  14. #34
    Won't breaking the gcd cap result in lower dps because of client-server interaction or was that fixed with spell queueing and I'm just being retarded? My personal preference is at a haste build but not going an ounce over 9692 if it can't be helped. Being able to quickly bounce between eclipse states with higher NG uptime is much more preferred for me -- even more so when I eventually get my 4p xD. Also being able to get casts out quicker is preferred for start and ends of movement sects -- finishing a cast and/or stopping midway to get one out etc. The only issues I ever have playing this way are when my computer craps out on me and I get bursts of 3 fps where my casts get extended and I can't properly multi dot -- so nothing to do with the play style at all.

  15. #35
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    757
    Quote Originally Posted by boomkinhero View Post
    Won't breaking the gcd cap result in lower dps because of client-server interaction or was that fixed with spell queueing and I'm just being retarded? My personal preference is at a haste build but not going an ounce over 9692 if it can't be helped. Being able to quickly bounce between eclipse states with higher NG uptime is much more preferred for me -- even more so when I eventually get my 4p xD. Also being able to get casts out quicker is preferred for start and ends of movement sects -- finishing a cast and/or stopping midway to get one out etc. The only issues I ever have playing this way are when my computer craps out on me and I get bursts of 3 fps where my casts get extended and I can't properly multi dot -- so nothing to do with the play style at all.
    Spell queuing fixed most of the latency issues people had, especially when connecting from overseas. Being at or just over the GCD cap essentially means you can cast one spell a second that is recognised by the server, vastly speeding up your DoTing time and the DPET of each DoT. And like you said, it aids in being able to finish a cast just before moving or even during movement.

  16. #36
    Field Marshal
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    74
    So I ran my sims with different results for 1 target ... Simcraft is telling me that the 10k haste build is superior to other options. I'll try it out in game and see what it looks like.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitestrife View Post
    Haste suck like hell in a real-raid-environment. Only on paper it shines. Going full crit is the only way to go in 5.2 if you want to maximise your dps.
    Personally I prefer getting the Haste GCD cap while not sacrificing too much crit, because it makes my rotation smoother and I feel, punishes light movement less.
    Check out my youtube channel of fail: http://www.youtube.com/EliteRocketbear

    8/8Hc DS

  18. #38
    Dreadlord xtramuscle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Suffolk, UK.
    Posts
    980
    I'm currently torn as to how to play. I'm ranking with both crit and haste builds, but gradually they're slipping lower and lower as more progressed raiders out gear me. Haste feels smoother, and more reliable, when crit is way more fun to play. My dps within the raid is competitive which ever build i go for, and for nothing other than selfish reasons, and more fun in combat i'm thinking of reforging back to crit until my gear further improves \

    Vexxe of Old School.



    Streaming MOP raids live: (14/14HC 25Man SoO) and WOD Beta (Leveling and raid testing Heoric/Mythic) @ http://www.twitch.tv/vexxee

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by xtramuscle View Post
    I'm currently torn as to how to play. I'm ranking with both crit and haste builds, but gradually they're slipping lower and lower as more progressed raiders out gear me. Haste feels smoother, and more reliable, when crit is way more fun to play. My dps within the raid is competitive which ever build i go for, and for nothing other than selfish reasons, and more fun in combat i'm thinking of reforging back to crit until my gear further improves \
    Well, how much crit do you have to give up to get your 10k breakpoint?

    Personally I only had to get rid of 2.2k crit rating, and I barely noticed the drop in crit percentages while I noticed more uptime on my trinkets and even the faster casts <3.

  20. #40
    Dreadlord xtramuscle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Suffolk, UK.
    Posts
    980
    Quote Originally Posted by whimz View Post
    Well, how much crit do you have to give up to get your 10k breakpoint?

    Personally I only had to get rid of 2.2k crit rating, and I barely noticed the drop in crit percentages while I noticed more uptime on my trinkets and even the faster casts <3.
    Yeah you're a tad better geared than me currently - wtb 541 Cha-ye. I had to drop about 8% crit, which sounds bad, but I was wasting ALOT of SS, so didn't mind the change all that much. Hopefully with the upgrade system on wednesday I'll recover some of that lose for the best of both worlds.

    Vexxe of Old School.



    Streaming MOP raids live: (14/14HC 25Man SoO) and WOD Beta (Leveling and raid testing Heoric/Mythic) @ http://www.twitch.tv/vexxee

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •