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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by reepa View Post
    Mages were built to be glass cannons, in almost every single game that has ever been ever created like EVER! people that complain that mages are always one of the top 5 dps classes and/or specs, need to really think about what you are talking about, they will always be glass cannons they will always do devastating amounts of damage, thats what a damned mage is!
    Actually in this game, there are four pure classes, and way more damage specs. Being a "glass cannon" is meaningless in PvE, where a tank with a foot long dick is taking all the hits and healers are healing everyone and you're free to play chess in the background (which usually involves dodging mechanics while DPSing).

    Mages are intended to be solid in PvE. In fact, most of their issues have come from the fact that they are asked to hold still too much in PvE in order to turn out good numbers. I don't really think that "Noxxic's rankings" is a great thing to judge on. Raidbots overall isn't so bad. "Raidbots top 100" tends to show mages overperforming, mostly because fire is an RNG spec (aka, the same mage's performance can vary more per pull than if he was playing, say, a mutilate rogue with the same skill). I would dismiss arguments made at mage PvE performance with these valid reasons, instead of something that doesn't have much application outside of tabletop gaming- or at the very least, outside of group PvP.

    The "glass cannon" idea is built from a different mold. Do you really think that in arena, the mage is normally the kill target, for instance? Do your mages normally die on whatever PvE fights are progression for your guild? Does it take more skill to survive as a PvE mage than a PvE warlock, or death knight, or fury warrior?

  2. #102
    Mechagnome Wootylicious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    "WHAT?! USE COOLDOWNS BASED ON ME GETTING CC'D OR HAVING TO DISPEL THINGS?! UNTHINKABLE!!!!!"

    Is what 95% of players who rage about Mages actually are like.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-13 at 05:47 PM ----------



    Okay, and that's the only way we really do any damage.

    Unfrozen Frost Bombs hit like a wet noodle (especially non crit, non frozen frost bombs) in comparison to one in a Deep. Ice Lance w/o FoF does like... what, 1k damage? Casting Frostbolt puts us in danger zone with the thousands of interrupts and silences there are in the game. WHAT OTHER SPELL DO WE HAVE, PEOPLE?!

    Seriously. All you whiners need to get a Mage to 90 and realize that we don't have a huge toolkit for damage. Outside of a deep and without any procs, our damage is just non-existent.
    rogues dont do any dmg outside of dance & opener's and they are nerfing us. why would you be any different. just make mages actually cast again rather than this "jump jump hi i has dem procs" playstyle.
    Last edited by Wootylicious; 2013-05-14 at 04:16 PM.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    Why do you list Sap also?
    Lol obviously when a mage deeps my healer, I should instruct my Sheepverain or Rootverain to go and sap him. MY EYES ARE OPENED!

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    Throwdown and Gag Order have been removed from the game (Gag Order against players) and you're assuming for every time the Mage can put out pressure that you have access to all of the abilities listed, which is not the case. Listing abilities doesn't really help anyone since some of the things you can't use at the time etc etc, it's all situational. Why do you list Sap also?
    Sorry abOut sap, you would think after playing with rogues for years I would remember they can't sap in combat but eh whatever. I had to pull up a list of abilities for warriors so it was probably a dated list. My point however remains through positioning effective communicate on cc and teamwork it's easy to counter a mages pressure during deep freeze. More often then not somebody on your team has some sort of cc to shut down burst during deeps. My reason for listing those abilities was to show that every team has crazy amounts of counters. If your caught in a deep freeze and cross cc with nobody on your team able to trinket and help out with cc/defensive cooldowns then you were simply outplayed.

    Ps sorry for typos and grammar, posting on my phone
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  5. #105
    mages are balanced in regards to playing vs 2500/glad players. just because you are inexperienced and are facing a mage who knows how to press 123 and get killed in a deep doesn't mean mages arent balanced.

    with all that being said, mages have been favored by changes since vanilla(what other class could ap double trinket pompyro and 1shot you?), so don't expect that to change 8 years later.

    yes, i play a mage and if i face a 2k team i can easily kill anyone in a deep since people are doing(most of the time not doing anything) stupid stuff so you can get away with casting in their face as an example - and its SUPPOSED to be like this so the other team can learn. when you play vs a good team you have to force shit to make a kill happen and people dont just blow 3 defensive spells out of panic like your average 2k player.

    also if you class sucks AND is getting nerfed you should be whining about buffing your class and not nerfing others, let alone trying to fix other classes.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    mages are balanced in regards to playing vs 2500/glad players. just because you are inexperienced and are facing a mage who knows how to press 123 and get killed in a deep doesn't mean mages arent balanced.

    with all that being said, mages have been favored by changes since vanilla(what other class could ap double trinket pompyro and 1shot you?), so don't expect that to change 8 years later.

    yes, i play a mage and if i face a 2k team i can easily kill anyone in a deep since people are doing(most of the time not doing anything) stupid stuff so you can get away with casting in their face as an example - and its SUPPOSED to be like this so the other team can learn. when you play vs a good team you have to force shit to make a kill happen and people dont just blow 3 defensive spells out of panic like your average 2k player.

    also if you class sucks AND is getting nerfed you should be whining about buffing your class and not nerfing others, let alone trying to fix other classes.
    Yeah cause ambush backstab, coolblood evi didnt kill anybody too. (except maybe warriors and paladin).

    If you had tea you could kill anybody and they couldnt do a thing.

    The firsts expansions weren't balanced at all, they were a joke
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  7. #107
    Legendary! Korgoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    mages are balanced in regards to playing vs 2500/glad players. just because you are inexperienced and are facing a mage who knows how to press 123 and get killed in a deep doesn't mean mages arent balanced.

    with all that being said, mages have been favored by changes since vanilla(what other class could ap double trinket pompyro and 1shot you?), so don't expect that to change 8 years later.

    yes, i play a mage and if i face a 2k team i can easily kill anyone in a deep since people are doing(most of the time not doing anything) stupid stuff so you can get away with casting in their face as an example - and its SUPPOSED to be like this so the other team can learn. when you play vs a good team you have to force shit to make a kill happen and people dont just blow 3 defensive spells out of panic like your average 2k player.

    also if you class sucks AND is getting nerfed you should be whining about buffing your class and not nerfing others, let alone trying to fix other classes.
    So basically, Mages are meant to be OP always have, 2000 mage = 2500/glad other player, not whine about nerfing my OP class, whine about buffs for yours...

    Mages are so filled with scrubs who think that deep bursting is some amazing skill and that the other team just needs to l2p to counter it. WHICH IS SUCH FUCKING HORSESHIT EASILY DISPROVEN BY LOOKING AT THE TOP OF THE LADDER. BECAUSE IF MAGES WERE ACTUALLY BALANCED AROUND 2500/GLAD, THEY WOULD NOT HAVE A MUCH HIGHER REP PERCENTAGE AT THAT LEVEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    "Gamer" is not a bad word. I identify as a gamer. When calling out those who persecute and harass, the word you're looking for is "asshole." @_DonAdams
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  8. #108
    Standard thread this.....
    Mages defence: We arn't OP. L2P

    Yvaelle is spot on tbh.

    I dont see how anyone can justify mages damage/control/representation.

    For the first time ever, blizz have admitted mages are a problem. I'm so overwhelmed...........I don't know what to say..............

  9. #109
    Didn't we lock another thread that had a misrepresenting thread title? OP has trouble reading.

  10. #110
    Field Marshal Azureqt's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=rnbwtrout;21116806]
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    We are aware that there are many players who have issues dealing with Mage burst capabilities, however we feel that the main problem right now isn't simply Deep Freeze or Frozen orb directly, but rather the damage increase caused by Incanter's Ward. When stacked with other damage increasing effects such as procs and Frost Mage mastery, it can add up to an additional 30% damage multiplier, which can be quite devastating against many opponents. Because Incanter's Ward is one of the bigger reasons for high Mage burst, we have plans to make changes to it in patch 5.3.

    In an upcoming change to the patch 5.3 patch notes you will see that we are looking to change the maximum spell damage increase from 30% to 15% but have the effect duration increased to 25 seconds, up from 15 seconds. This will lower the damage coming from Frozen Orb, Frost Bomb and other skills during a Mages burst window, but that damage multiplier will just last for a bit longer.
    It seems Blizzard never steps up and takes the blame for anything anymore.

    Mages have been blatantly out of control since AT LEAST the beginning of Wrath of the Lich King. Ghostcrawler and his developers are either astoundingly ignorant to the real problems that plague PvP or they just don't care.

    They should take out Nether Tempest and Frost Bomb for starters... We can talk about Ice Lance's astronomical crit damage afterwards.

  11. #111
    this is a funny thread ^^.


    the IA nerf is going to fix some problems.. most of you are complaining about being globaled in deeps and that only happens when mages buff stack. if he pops offensives, deeps bombs and orbs its no different then a warrior reck'n on you.. you have stop what you're doing and peel and stop any cc chain.

    you will not get globaled by a mage without him using trink / IA .. if you do then your gear is garbage.


    80k lances and 100k FFB likewise non existent without IA. not saying mages aren't powerful and do decent dmg.. but hunters are 100 times worse on live right now.

    edit - they made it 25 seconds instead of 15 seconds? LOL. NM. permanent dmg increase.. still pretty good. :/
    Last edited by Lulbalance; 2013-05-14 at 05:35 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    The devs aren't stupid.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    Casting Frostbolt puts us in danger zone with the thousands of interrupts and silences there are in the game. WHAT OTHER SPELL DO WE HAVE, PEOPLE?!

    Seriously. All you whiners need to get a Mage to 90 and realize that we don't have a huge toolkit for damage. Outside of a deep and without any procs, our damage is just non-existent.
    Oh yeah, a CASTER having to CAST!! thats just crazy...

    Say hello to a destro lock

  13. #113
    Same old arguments against deep. Do people really think every class should have an immune to use every time a deep is up? A bubble every 30 seconds or a 5 minute cd on deep makes no sense. If you're eating them, letting the mage free cast, and your partners are doing nothing to stop controlled burst you need to play better. You don't need an immune for every deep.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelvales View Post
    deep freeze is needed, mage damage is aweful against unfrozen targets and frost nova breaks from a gental breeze
    30-40k frostbolts and frost bomb HITS vs. melee hitting for 9k-30k with any attack except obliterate or templar's verdict (depending on target armor). And you're complaining about yourself hitting like a wet noodle? Really? Hell, your ice lances hit as hard as melee bread and butter attacks on non-frozen targets.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-14 at 06:04 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Chestbrah View Post
    Same old arguments against deep. Do people really think every class should have an immune to use every time a deep is up? A bubble every 30 seconds or a 5 minute cd on deep makes no sense. If you're eating them, letting the mage free cast, and your partners are doing nothing to stop controlled burst you need to play better. You don't need an immune for every deep.
    No, you don't need an immune to every deep. Deep just needs to be a 1-1.5 minute cd AT LEAST for the amount of control and damage it provides. Just like shadow dance.

    And the fact that both these classes have cd resetting cds only goes on to push them further over the top. And of course hunters too.
    Last edited by Flaks; 2013-05-14 at 06:05 PM.
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  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    So basically, Mages are meant to be OP always have, 2000 mage = 2500/glad other player, not whine about nerfing my OP class, whine about buffs for yours...

    Mages are so filled with scrubs who think that deep bursting is some amazing skill and that the other team just needs to l2p to counter it. WHICH IS SUCH FUCKING HORSESHIT EASILY DISPROVEN BY LOOKING AT THE TOP OF THE LADDER. BECAUSE IF MAGES WERE ACTUALLY BALANCED AROUND 2500/GLAD, THEY WOULD NOT HAVE A MUCH HIGHERmisconcep REP PERCENTAGE AT THAT LEVEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Sweeping generalizations and caps lock makes you right! Nobody said deep freeze required a lot of skill, but the misconception that countering it requires an exuberant amount of skill is wrong as well, it's predictable and easily nullified through team play.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    If you bathe your motherboard in the blood of 20 chickens during the first full moon after the equinox, the WoW gods will shower you with many loots.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by draconith1 View Post
    Sweeping generalizations and caps lock makes you right! Nobody said deep freeze required a lot of skill, but the misconception that countering it requires an exuberant amount of skill is wrong as well, it's predictable and easily nullified through team play.
    The only legit counter I've heard to deeping is dispel. Too bad that has an 8 second cd and must be used in many MANY other scenarios against mage teams. 99% of the time if the deep/nova is getting dispelled, it's because the mage fucked up at setting up the deep, not because the other team "knows how to play".
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
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  17. #117
    Nothing new here lol. Mages since the beginning of wow have always been great or above average. They always have top tier comps every season. No reason complaining when we know the people pulling the string will never change it.

  18. #118
    Legendary! Korgoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by draconith1 View Post
    Sweeping generalizations and caps lock makes you right! Nobody said deep freeze required a lot of skill, but the misconception that countering it requires an exuberant amount of skill is wrong as well, it's predictable and easily nullified through team play.
    So then mages would be having trouble at high ratings wouldnt they, because of how predictable and easily nullified their burst setup is. But oh wait they aren't, they are dominating the high end of the brackets far beyond what any objective person would considered balanced.

    BECAUSE GASP! MAGES HAVE MULTIPLE INSTANT CCS AND PARTNERS TO CC OUT THE ENTIRE TEAM COMPELTELY EVERY 30S DURING THE BURST PHASE.
    "Gamer" is not a bad word. I identify as a gamer. When calling out those who persecute and harass, the word you're looking for is "asshole." @_DonAdams
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  19. #119
    Herald of the Titans Nadev's Avatar
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    Consider yourself lucky to have had a mage blow your face off. /sarc
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  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    So then mages would be having trouble at high ratings wouldnt they, because of how predictable and easily nullified their burst setup is. But oh wait they aren't, they are dominating the high end of the brackets far beyond what any objective person would considered balanced.

    BECAUSE GASP! MAGES HAVE MULTIPLE INSTANT CCS AND PARTNERS TO CC OUT THE ENTIRE TEAM COMPELTELY EVERY 30S DURING THE BURST PHASE.
    Unless I'm mistaken most other classes have instant cc, silences, interrupts, and partners to help them as well. Unless you've been queuing alone. See a Mage cast a deep freeze? Silence him, fear him, cyclone him, pull him away out of range, team spell reflect, stun him. The possibilities are rediculous and to suggest otherwise is stupid.
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