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  1. #1

    Blizzard: Mages Can Do No Wrong

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    We are aware that there are many players who have issues dealing with Mage burst capabilities, however we feel that the main problem right now isn't simply Deep Freeze or Frozen orb directly, but rather the damage increase caused by Incanter's Ward. When stacked with other damage increasing effects such as procs and Frost Mage mastery, it can add up to an additional 30% damage multiplier, which can be quite devastating against many opponents. Because Incanter's Ward is one of the bigger reasons for high Mage burst, we have plans to make changes to it in patch 5.3.

    In an upcoming change to the patch 5.3 patch notes you will see that we are looking to change the maximum spell damage increase from 30% to 15% but have the effect duration increased to 25 seconds, up from 15 seconds. This will lower the damage coming from Frozen Orb, Frost Bomb and other skills during a Mages burst window, but that damage multiplier will just last for a bit longer.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...67?page=10#189

    if you've been following the official forums, there's been many threads recently closed or deleted related to mage nerfs. yet, the threads regarding nerfs to other classes are not bothered with at all, especially the recent outcry against hunters. two-face much, blizzard?

    now we have this condescending blue post which basically says it's our fault we're getting blown up by mages. our "issues dealing with mage burst capabilities," or lack thereof is forcing their hand.

    i used to not put much credence to the cries of favoritism, especially when GC repeatedly denies there's none of it, but how can you look at these recent developments and not go hmmmmmmm? i can tolerate a lot of stuff, but the one thing that will get me to unsub is class favoritism.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by rnbwtrout View Post
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    We are aware that there are many players who have issues dealing with Mage burst capabilities, however we feel that the main problem right now isn't simply Deep Freeze or Frozen orb directly, but rather the damage increase caused by Incanter's Ward. When stacked with other damage increasing effects such as procs and Frost Mage mastery, it can add up to an additional 30% damage multiplier, which can be quite devastating against many opponents. Because Incanter's Ward is one of the bigger reasons for high Mage burst, we have plans to make changes to it in patch 5.3.

    In an upcoming change to the patch 5.3 patch notes you will see that we are looking to change the maximum spell damage increase from 30% to 15% but have the effect duration increased to 25 seconds, up from 15 seconds. This will lower the damage coming from Frozen Orb, Frost Bomb and other skills during a Mages burst window, but that damage multiplier will just last for a bit longer.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...67?page=10#189

    if you've been following the official forums, there's been many threads recently closed or deleted related to mage nerfs. yet, the threads regarding nerfs to other classes are not bothered with at all, especially the recent outcry against hunters. two-face much, blizzard?

    now we have this condescending blue post which basically says it's our fault we're getting blown up by mages. our "issues dealing with mage burst capabilities," or lack thereof is forcing their hand.

    i used to not put much credence to the cries of favoritism, especially when GC repeatedly denies there's none of it, but how can you look at these recent developments and not go hmmmmmmm? i can tolerate a lot of stuff, but the one thing that will get me to unsub is class favoritism.

    The threads about mage nerfs have been locked, because they were just "Nerf Mages!!!!1!11!Eleven!" Those kind of threads always get closed.

  3. #3
    I was surprised when they said that mages are handled well by gladiator level characters, but then Yvaelle linked arena rep at really high ratings- and there's plenty of mages there too.

    I don't really get why every deep has to be so goddamned threatening, on top of a class with solid spammable CC. I can't threaten that well outside of dance, and I certainly can't throw out a CC at a teammate for every dance- much less every kidney shot. I get that different classes are different, but EVERY DEEP is like this.

  4. #4
    Mages have always been favored by GC. Noxxic rankings for DPS has all 3 specs in the top 5 for most of the gear level rankings.

    Its burns me all the time when I think about it.

    In PvP they have stupid amounts of control.

  5. #5
    Man, I didn't know fox newscasters frequented these forums.

    Quote Originally Posted by rnbwtrout View Post
    if you've been following the official forums, there's been many threads recently closed or deleted related to mage nerfs. yet, the threads regarding nerfs to other classes are not bothered with at all, especially the recent outcry against hunters. two-face much, blizzard?
    Some threads are being closed, others are not. There are a thousand reasons why this could be. You're offering nothing but a correlation, with no possible support for this correlation being the causation.

    Quote Originally Posted by rnbwtrout View Post
    now we have this condescending blue post which basically says it's our fault we're getting blown up by mages. our "issues dealing with mage burst capabilities," or lack thereof is forcing their hand.
    It's not worded the best, but it definitely doesn't say it's your fault. It just says that mage burst capabilities are hard to counter. And yes, when there's a balance issue, that does mean they have to change something.

    People will take you more seriously if you stop putting words in other peoples' mouths. Learning to use the shift key and not using straw men in your post title will also help.

    I don't feel strongly one way or another on whether mages are favored or not, but I couldn't let this kind of terrible go scot-free.

  6. #6
    Everyone should just reroll mages and it will be ok. On a serious note tho mages are countered by a few classes now, the only trouble is that a mage can still break those classes in a DEEP. A full DEEP is normally a kill.

  7. #7
    1v1 mages have quite a few counters, and really many classes can dominate them. 2v2, the same. Everyone acts as if they don't have a teammate, defensive cd's, or positioning when they start talking about "OMG DIED IN THE DEEP SO OP NERF PLS".

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by rnbwtrout View Post

    if you've been following the official forums, there's been many threads recently closed or deleted related to mage nerfs. yet, the threads regarding nerfs to other classes are not bothered with at all, especially the recent outcry against hunters. two-face much, blizzard?
    And if you read the Blue postings on these threads you would see why they were closed.
    Firstly, breaking rules by having multiple threads on the same topic.
    Secondly, calling thread 'OMFG BLIZZ SHOULD NERF MAGES' or something like that in capitals gets deleted because it is in caps, against the rules.
    Thirdly threads complaining about the above two types of threads getting deleted because it is against the rules to have threads discussing Blizz's decision about closing threads.
    Also threads which descend in to multiple people name calling/posting in capitals/screaming at Blizz will get closed because they are not constructive.

    Blues always say this, and they are ignored. If you try and drive up the wrong side of the road according to the laws in your country you will have many problems and could be arrested. Breaking Blizz's rules in forums is exactly the same. Follow the rules and the threads will not be closed/deleted.

  9. #9
    Legendary! Korgoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chestbrah View Post
    1v1 mages have quite a few counters, and really many classes can dominate them. 2v2, the same. Everyone acts as if they don't have a teammate, defensive cd's, or positioning when they start talking about "OMG DIED IN THE DEEP SO OP NERF PLS".
    Oh where to start with this mage defending horeshit.

    Should I choose the easy target in "positioning" and point out how fucking retarded it is to bring that up when you are dealing with instant spells on a super mobile class.

    Or maybe we go into how stupid it is to bring up Defensive CDs when you A. Cant use them in Deep, B. have much longer CDs on them then Deep, and C. often die through them.

    Oh how about, THE MAGE HAS A FUCKING TEAMMATE TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BUT THATS MAGE MENTALITY, 1v2 IS HOW THEY EXPECT IT TO WORK.

    THE TWO OF YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO WORK TOGETHER TO COUNTER THE 1 OF THEM, WHILE THEIR TEAMMATE JUST DERPS IN A CORNER.
    "Gamer" is not a bad word. I identify as a gamer. When calling out those who persecute and harass, the word you're looking for is "asshole." @_DonAdams

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    Oh where to start with this mage defending horeshit.

    Should I choose the easy target in "positioning" and point out how fucking retarded it is to bring that up when you are dealing with instant spells on a super mobile class.

    Or maybe we go into how stupid it is to bring up Defensive CDs when you A. Cant use them in Deep, B. have much longer CDs on them then Deep, and C. often die through them.

    Oh how about, THE MAGE HAS A FUCKING TEAMMATE TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BUT THATS MAGE MENTALITY, 1v2 IS HOW THEY EXPECT IT TO WORK.

    THE TWO OF YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO WORK TOGETHER TO COUNTER THE 1 OF THEM, WHILE THEIR TEAMMATE JUST DERPS IN A CORNER.

    TL;DR It's impossible to outplay a mage. What class do you play that you don't have either A. Some counter to eating a deep, or B. Some immune you can use immediately after and not die. And the teammate thing just gets me, because your teammate can't do anything while you're in a deep either.

    In the amount of time you spend raging about mages, you could just level a hunter and then trolololol your way to being able to beat them 100% of the time with little skill involved.
    Last edited by Chestbrah; 2013-05-13 at 09:07 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    Oh where to start with this mage defending horeshit.

    Should I choose the easy target in "positioning" and point out how fucking retarded it is to bring that up when you are dealing with instant spells on a super mobile class.

    Or maybe we go into how stupid it is to bring up Defensive CDs when you A. Cant use them in Deep, B. have much longer CDs on them then Deep, and C. often die through them.

    Oh how about, THE MAGE HAS A FUCKING TEAMMATE TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BUT THATS MAGE MENTALITY, 1v2 IS HOW THEY EXPECT IT TO WORK.

    THE TWO OF YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO WORK TOGETHER TO COUNTER THE 1 OF THEM, WHILE THEIR TEAMMATE JUST DERPS IN A CORNER.
    Frostbolt and Frost bomb, 2 of the hardest hitting spells that need to hit during the deep (and must be cast before deep) are not instant and can easily be interrupted, LOS, or dispelled.

    Defensive CDs you can used while stunned: IBF, pain sup, barkskin, disbursion, a simple lock pet silence... just off the top of my head.

    mages are not that hard to counter... especially with a healer dispelling all of the frost bombs.

  12. #12
    Legendary! Korgoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chestbrah View Post
    TL;DR It's impossible to outplay a mage. What class do you play that you don't have either A. Some counter to eating a deep, or B. Some immune you can use immediately after and not die. And the teammate thing just gets me, because your teammate can't do anything while you're in a deep either.

    In the amount of time you spend raging about mages, you could just level a hunter and then trolololol your way to being able to beat them 100% of the time with little skill involved.
    Ah yes the next Mage defender argument, "you could reroll"...

    Deep's CD is far below any effective counter, and you know that, just like you also know that mages possess enough instant CC in addition to deep to stop the deep from getting peeled.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-13 at 09:12 PM ----------

    Defensive CDs you can used while stunned: IBF, pain sup, barkskin, disbursion, a simple lock pet silence... just off the top of my head.
    Whats the CD on Deep compared to those abilities??? Make Deep have the same CD as Pain Sup, and Ill be happy with it.
    "Gamer" is not a bad word. I identify as a gamer. When calling out those who persecute and harass, the word you're looking for is "asshole." @_DonAdams

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    Whats the CD on Deep compared to those abilities??? Make Deep have the same CD as Pain Sup, and Ill be happy with it.

    Pls stop. This is pathetic.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelvales View Post
    Frostbolt and Frost bomb, 2 of the hardest hitting spells that need to hit during the deep (and must be cast before deep) are not instant and can easily be interrupted, LOS, or dispelled.

    mages are not that hard to counter... especially with a healer dispelling all of the frost bombs.
    Or the mage can spec nether tempest and never have to hardcast a damaging spell ever again?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by thisnamesucks View Post
    Or the mage can spec nether tempest and never have to hardcast a damaging spell ever again?
    How would you win a match not hardcasting a damaging spell? This thread delivers.

  16. #16
    Deeps not going to kill you without a frost bomb on you, prevent it, have someone dispell it... have your friend stop the mage from utilizing the deep!

    As for your instant CC, do you mean CS? or frost nova? because thats all the instant CC they have to through at your teammates unless they spec into presence of mind.

    And all of those defensive cds are the ones usable while stunned.. the ones you use when you screw up and/or no one can save you.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Chestbrah View Post
    How would you win a match not hardcasting a damaging spell? This thread delivers.
    Nether tempest opposing team, spam ice lance or frostfire bolt for every damaging gcd, win game.

  18. #18
    Mechagnome Zippoflames's Avatar
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    From a 2s point of view Mages are a bit crazy because they start in stealth 9/10 and cast polymorph now if he has a Rogue team mate your pretty much fucked. So lets trinket the poly.. oh say hello to blind.. Lets sit the poly.. oh hang on my team mate just got killed.. It's not always like that obviously but a good mage is dangerous as hell in 2s.

    In 3s I don't find them that bad as you have team mates to protect you and the others when a poly goes off but deep and imp cs is one bastard combo.

    I think they have far too much burst when I can die in a full deep with full current gear gemmed with resi

    But I also think trinkets need changing to either give a, CC immunity from trinketed cc so sheep trinket > 5 secs sheep immunity as currently on a 2 min cd trinks are trash..

    (all my opinion as a 1700 rated priest in 3s and 1800 in 2s so take with a pinch of salt I guess)

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by thisnamesucks View Post
    Nether tempest opposing team, spam ice lance or frostfire bolt for every damaging gcd, win game.
    and here we see the level of knowledge held by people who cry about mages

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Miko View Post
    Everyone should just reroll mages and it will be ok. On a serious note tho mages are countered by a few classes now, the only trouble is that a mage can still break those classes in a DEEP. A full DEEP is normally a kill.
    Funny how when ferals were a good counter to frost mages in early cata feral got nerfed HARD because they were considered 'op' to have mechanics they had since vanilla, but just not have stupid dps taxes along with their spec.
    Blizzard really has been making sure mages are extremely competitive ever since Sunwell. If every class got as much attention as mages, the game would be near perfectly balanced.
    What are you willing to sacrifice?

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