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  1. #1

    askmrrobot...

    Hey guys!

    alot of people say that askmrrobot is a good site to use for gems/enchants and reforges.

    but if i use it it places my expertise on 8.12%
    and my hit on 9.93%..

    since both needs to be 7.5%
    why are they putting it so much above the 7,5%

  2. #2
    Brewmaster Yuuki Asuna's Avatar
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    Sometimes I notice that happens when you have too much hit and nothing left to reforge. I have over 8% hit on my toon.
    I cried alone every single night. It felt like every day that passed here stole another piece of my real life away. After i cried, I’d go and fight as hard as I could. My only thought was winning, moving forward, and getting stronger. — Asuna Yuuki

  3. #3
    Morgrah, I'm from Ask Mr. Robot. Can you give me your character name / realm so I can look into it? Even better - if you save a profile (blue save button, while logged in), it saves every setting you have. Send me that URL so I can see exactly what you see.
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  4. #4
    Dreadlord
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    My guess would be, that you have so much hit, that you simply cannot forge away enough.

  5. #5
    Immortal Soisoisoi's Avatar
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    Your character probably just has too much hit gear. I was stuck at over 12% hit on my Death Knight for a while. You can get closer reforging done with Wowreforge and the likes, if you prefer.

  6. #6
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Currently, these are the things that need to be improved:

    1.) Stat weights. Crit:Strength relative value fluctuates based mainly on weapon and legendary meta gem, and to a lesser extent TG or SMF. As a result, if there is some way for AMR to check for those to account to get more precise values for each person, without requiring editing of custom stat weights, that's the best. Otherwise, simply fixing Str:Crit ratio so strength isn't so far overvalued would suffice.

    2.) The trinket list, and BiS list. The trinket list is still a mess. It should be organized by value, not alphabetically, and it really needs to be cleaned up. Since most trinkets outside of the feather have a fairly simple value for order, that shouldn't be hard to do (It's Feather-Gaze-Talisman-Rage-LSFO:H2/2 and maybe even 0/2-Spark). As it stands the list is confusing, and half the stuff up there shouldn't even be up there. As well, there honestly is no reason to show average stat gain unless its presented in SEP format. Not only is it confusing, but it's mostly useless. As for BiS list, yours is wrong on a few points. 541 gaze should be up there, not rage. Also, the bracers should be crit not mastery. Even in BiS gear mastery is still slightly inferior to crit as SMF, and tied as TG, except in AoE fights where mastery is better. Yet this is a SMF build and TG is mainly an AoE spec once we are that far into farming the tier and as such the crit bracers should be shown. Checking the normal mode BiS list it should again be feather/gaze not feather/talisman for trinkets. Also, the socket bonus in the boots isn't worth meeting. 320 crit>220 crit+80 strength.

    3.) Gear optimizer (Or loot roll optimizer thingy). It is mostly useless unless you can check which bosses you can kill, whether that is normal or heroic modes. Very few guilds are only clearing through 12/12 normal and doing nothing else. Most are either working on heroics, or working on normals. So for example me being able to tick heroic jinrok and heroic tortos and heroic ji-kun and heroic horridon, and the rest normal mode is far more useful.

    Those are the main things I thought of for now.

  7. #7
    Hey Zoopercat,

    this should be the URL :P

    askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/fa8ff2a2-2855-4f49-87f9-a97e00197054

    otherwise its Morgrah on the server Kazzak eu
    playing 1h fury

    (not 10 posts yet cant use links..)

  8. #8
    here ya go the link from askmrrobot
    http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/f...9-a97e00197054

    if thats not what you needed then.

    Character Server
    Morgrah Kazzak EU

    1h fury warrior

  9. #9
    Dreadlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    Currently, these are the things that need to be improved:

    1.) Stat weights. Crit:Strength relative value fluctuates based mainly on weapon and legendary meta gem, and to a lesser extent TG or SMF. As a result, if there is some way for AMR to check for those to account to get more precise values for each person, without requiring editing of custom stat weights, that's the best. Otherwise, simply fixing Str:Crit ratio so strength isn't so far overvalued would suffice.

    2.) The trinket list, and BiS list. The trinket list is still a mess. It should be organized by value, not alphabetically, and it really needs to be cleaned up. Since most trinkets outside of the feather have a fairly simple value for order, that shouldn't be hard to do (It's Feather-Gaze-Talisman-Rage-LSFO:H2/2 and maybe even 0/2-Spark). As it stands the list is confusing, and half the stuff up there shouldn't even be up there. As well, there honestly is no reason to show average stat gain unless its presented in SEP format. Not only is it confusing, but it's mostly useless. As for BiS list, yours is wrong on a few points. 541 gaze should be up there, not rage. Also, the bracers should be crit not mastery. Even in BiS gear mastery is still slightly inferior to crit as SMF, and tied as TG, except in AoE fights where mastery is better. Yet this is a SMF build and TG is mainly an AoE spec once we are that far into farming the tier and as such the crit bracers should be shown. Checking the normal mode BiS list it should again be feather/gaze not feather/talisman for trinkets. Also, the socket bonus in the boots isn't worth meeting. 320 crit>220 crit+80 strength.

    3.) Gear optimizer (Or loot roll optimizer thingy). It is mostly useless unless you can check which bosses you can kill, whether that is normal or heroic modes. Very few guilds are only clearing through 12/12 normal and doing nothing else. Most are either working on heroics, or working on normals. So for example me being able to tick heroic jinrok and heroic tortos and heroic ji-kun and heroic horridon, and the rest normal mode is far more useful.

    Those are the main things I thought of for now.
    Since you can modify your statweights on your own, I donßt think point 1 is a real problem. Agree with the other two, thou.

  10. #10
    Immortal Soisoisoi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    So for example me being able to tick heroic jinrok and heroic tortos and heroic ji-kun and heroic horridon, and the rest normal mode is far more useful.
    Would love this, just like Rawr had. It gets annoying enabling heroic loot and having to disable multiple items on every slot individually.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post

    2.) The trinket list, and BiS list. The trinket list is still a mess. It should be organized by value, not alphabetically, and it really needs to be cleaned up. Since most trinkets outside of the feather have a fairly simple value for order, that shouldn't be hard to do (It's Feather-Gaze-Talisman-Rage-LSFO:H2/2 and maybe even 0/2-Spark). As it stands the list is confusing, and half the stuff up there shouldn't even be up there. As well, there honestly is no reason to show average stat gain unless its presented in SEP format. Not only is it confusing, but it's mostly useless. As for BiS list, yours is wrong on a few points. 541 gaze should be up there, not rage. Also, the bracers should be crit not mastery. Even in BiS gear mastery is still slightly inferior to crit as SMF, and tied as TG, except in AoE fights where mastery is better. Yet this is a SMF build and TG is mainly an AoE spec once we are that far into farming the tier and as such the crit bracers should be shown. Checking the normal mode BiS list it should again be feather/gaze not feather/talisman for trinkets. Also, the socket bonus in the boots isn't worth meeting. 320 crit>220 crit+80 strength.
    .

    Have you tried clicking the "RELATIVE" box?

    There's a Ranking feature for gear where NONE, ABSOLUTE and RELATIVE are your choices.
    Relative lists them based on what your gear and stat weights are.

  12. #12
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mil Mascaras View Post
    Have you tried clicking the "RELATIVE" box?

    There's a Ranking feature for gear where NONE, ABSOLUTE and RELATIVE are your choices.
    Relative lists them based on what your gear and stat weights are.
    I don't use Askmrrobot, because it's bad. I've been trying to give feedback to their devs so they can fix their site, their trinket list is just BAD.

  13. #13
    Morgrah, got your PM and responded. It's like other people guessed: the hit/exp from your gear is already really high. Let me know if you end up having more questions.

    Regarding feedback:

    1) A lot of classes have different stat weights once they have enough RPPM items (LMG, trinkets, etc). We've been testing these out and adding in other presets for users to select when they have the LMG & other RPPM items. Warriors are on that list, we'll get to them. In the meantime, the stat weights are still editable, we just don't have a handy preset yet.

    2) We want to add in sorting for the Trinket pages. It's on a LONG list of features, but we'll get to it

    3) We want to beef up the functionality of the Bonus roll picker as well. Our feature list is pretty long, there are just so many cool things to do! Since we just did some really cool things with premium earlier this year, now we're spending a few months on the free features. We just released an update to the stat weight editor to make it easier to use. Next, we're very close to have a beta of our new optimization algorithm. The idea is it can guarantee the optimal result AND run in sub-second time. We have a few other little free things we want to improve as well (like trinket sorting). And of course, we're working on updating the site for 5.3 Once those are done, we'll do another round of improvements on the premium features (like the bonus roll calculator). Hang in there, we are always releasing updates and cool features
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  14. #14
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoopercat View Post
    Morgrah, got your PM and responded. It's like other people guessed: the hit/exp from your gear is already really high. Let me know if you end up having more questions.

    Regarding feedback:

    1) A lot of classes have different stat weights once they have enough RPPM items (LMG, trinkets, etc). We've been testing these out and adding in other presets for users to select when they have the LMG & other RPPM items. Warriors are on that list, we'll get to them. In the meantime, the stat weights are still editable, we just don't have a handy preset yet.

    2) We want to add in sorting for the Trinket pages. It's on a LONG list of features, but we'll get to it

    3) We want to beef up the functionality of the Bonus roll picker as well. Our feature list is pretty long, there are just so many cool things to do! Since we just did some really cool things with premium earlier this year, now we're spending a few months on the free features. We just released an update to the stat weight editor to make it easier to use. Next, we're very close to have a beta of our new optimization algorithm. The idea is it can guarantee the optimal result AND run in sub-second time. We have a few other little free things we want to improve as well (like trinket sorting). And of course, we're working on updating the site for 5.3 Once those are done, we'll do another round of improvements on the premium features (like the bonus roll calculator). Hang in there, we are always releasing updates and cool features
    No, RPPM trinkets have next to NO impact on stat weights for warriors at least (which is what this is about anyway). Each RPPM trinket boosts hastes SEP by around .03. This changes NOTHING for reforging. As for gemming, NOTHING changes either. The only change that occurs for gems is that you use exp/crit gems instead of str/crit gems when the SEP of mastery is over .5, as long as each point of expertise you gem can be turned into mastery through reforging out of expertise. The higher the SEP of mastery, the fewer points of expertise reforged out of are needed to make it worth switching.

    I can give you a handy preset for stat weights.

    In SEP
    Str - 1
    Crit .82
    Haste .58
    Mastery .69

    BOOM done.

  15. #15
    Is it just me or does every thread about askmrrobot never fail to bring darkfriend in for a bashing session? I love askmrrobot and thank them for all the effort they have put into making reforging, gemming, and enchanting pain free so that I can focus on playing the game and working on my rotation rather than maximizing my gear. Sure they may be a few points off here and there that may constitute to 0.1% dps, but in all honesty if you are willing to go and do all the work on your own then more power to you. Please stop harassing zoopercat and other representatives of askmrrobot for allowing the other players who do not want to trudge through simulators and work out math in order to play a game. They do an above and beyond job in providing quality work to allow the rest of us to bypass the annoying part of the raiding game in order to actually get to mash our weapons into the asses of giant bosses.

  16. #16
    Field Marshal
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    This. AMR seems to be a bit of a hot-button issue for many. Is AMR good enough for Darkfriend and others that want to min/max and push their DPS to the ultimate limit? No. That's what sims and high-end theorycrafting are for. Is AMR good enough for people (like me) that just want to be hit-capped while spending their paltry gold on reforges and appropriate gems, while getting a decent look at where gear upgrades come from? Yes. Bottom line: use the tools that provide the best results for YOU in YOUR situation, and try to be respectful in the process. WoW has plenty of room for wildy different playstyles and levels of obsession with optimization, so there's certainly room for more than one tool.

    /end rant

  17. #17
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torgo View Post
    This. AMR seems to be a bit of a hot-button issue for many. Is AMR good enough for Darkfriend and others that want to min/max and push their DPS to the ultimate limit? No. That's what sims and high-end theorycrafting are for. Is AMR good enough for people (like me) that just want to be hit-capped while spending their paltry gold on reforges and appropriate gems, while getting a decent look at where gear upgrades come from? Yes. Bottom line: use the tools that provide the best results for YOU in YOUR situation, and try to be respectful in the process. WoW has plenty of room for wildy different playstyles and levels of obsession with optimization, so there's certainly room for more than one tool.

    /end rant
    Then tell every other warrior who ever wants help to not look on these boards. People should be giving the BEST advice, not AVERAGE advice. If you want to be mediocre, go ahead and use AMR. It has lots of problems that should have been fixed months ago. Until they are fixed, I'll continue to point out their major problems every time I see a thread about them, so people understand how to use it, and why they are better off NOT using it unless they know how to work around its problems.

    People on this thread give out help because they want to. Askmrrobot is a FOR PROFIT website, and I'll be damned if I give my acceptance to go ahead and use a site I KNOW has major issues without telling people what those issues are. AMR has been contacted numerous times and still won't fix their stuff. Their devs are terrible simmer's, and their website is poorly designed. In short, it has a lot of potential but overall it is BAD for someone trying to improve their DPS.

    If you don't care about doing the best you can, why bother checking these boards for help anyway? In that case, it won't matter how you play because you'll play at sub optimal level. And since this is a game that's not always bad. Play at the comfort level you enjoy. But don't go around saying "hurr durr this tool is fine because at my lower level it works" That is a bad argument. That's like telling a 12 year old telling me that I shouldn't use a calculator to do math because working it out long form works JUST FINE for them and that I shouldn't tell anyone not to use long form because it works FOR THEM.

    TL;DR, go ahead and use AMR, you'll get sub optimal results. If you like that, fine. Same thing for Noxxic and Icy veins (although icy veins fixed their guide *a little* recently.) If you want to do well, use better tools. Also, respect is earned, and AMR has more than lost the respect of every warrior I know for obvious reasons.

  18. #18
    Darkfriend, we seem to cover this every couple of weeks:

    1) The stats change based on whether you have the LMG. Alright- users can edit the stat weights. That makes it a flexible tool, not a bad one. And as I stated, we're working on adding new presets. But people can still edit the weights - we even have a super-handy sim-c export for people to check the results!

    2) You don't like how we sort our trinkets on the trinket page. Ok, but that isn't giving bad advice... it's just not as convenient to sort as we would like.

    3) You would like to be able to check which bosses you're killing when using the bonus roll feature. Ok, that's a fair and cool request. But it doesn't make the advice WRONG! It just means you have to skim past the bosses you can't kill yet. Not as convenient of course, but not wrong. And we give everyone a 1-week free trial of that feature (while never asking for a credit card) to make sure users like it before buying it. Seems fair, right?! If they don't like the options we present them, then they don't upgrade to premium, and that's totally ok!


    EDIT: You said:
    1.) Stat weights. Crit:Strength relative value fluctuates based mainly on weapon and legendary meta gem, and to a lesser extent TG or SMF. As a result, if there is some way for AMR to check for those to account to get more precise values for each person, without requiring editing of custom stat weights, that's the best. Otherwise, simply fixing Str:Crit ratio so strength isn't so far overvalued would suffice.
    AMR has been contacted numerous times and still won't fix their stuff
    I assume you want the same Crit:Strength ratio mentioned in a previous thread on 4/8, where I simmed it to show that with your weights, 3 of 4 cases got a 0.05% to 0.2% increase to DPS. Even though those are very small increases, I said we'd look into it some more and do more testing to see if we should update the weights. Well, a week later, we updated the weights because it was better in a majority of the cases So as far as I know, the Crit:Strength ratio is in line with your suggestions! We listened and updated it!!!

    The tool doesn't give bad advice. Or even 'average' advice as you stated. As you can see from the sims we did here, the default weights resulted in a 0.05 - 0.2% DPS loss. Users could still input their own custom weights, but we like to have the best defaults possible which is why we updated them based on your suggestion. But 0.2% isn't giving AVERAGE (or BAD) advice

    The current algorithm gets 99.9% of people to 99.9% optimal. That's pretty darn good!! But we don't stop there - as I mentioned, we're very close to having an algorithm that can both guarantee the BEST solution while optimizing in under a second. It's taken a few months to develop, and we're really excited to get it out to people for beta testing.


    Their devs are terrible simmer's
    ps: we aren't bad simmers lol! We do this as our full time jobs (as you pointed out, a for-profit site). We are simming things every day, checking results, working with users who find problems. I'd like to say, as humbly as possible, we're expert simmers In fact, some of Mr. Robot's best robo-friends call me simmer-cat. (that last part may be not be true...)
    Last edited by Zoopercat; 2013-05-16 at 01:00 AM.
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  19. #19
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoopercat View Post
    Darkfriend, we seem to cover this every couple of weeks:

    1) The stats change based on whether you have the LMG. Alright- users can edit the stat weights. That makes it a flexible tool, not a bad one. And as I stated, we're working on adding new presets. But people can still edit the weights - we even have a super-handy sim-c export for people to check the results!

    2) You don't like how we sort our trinkets on the trinket page. Ok, but that isn't giving bad advice... it's just not as convenient to sort as we would like.

    3) You would like to be able to check which bosses you're killing when using the bonus roll feature. Ok, that's a fair and cool request. But it doesn't make the advice WRONG! It just means you have to skim past the bosses you can't kill yet. Not as convenient of course, but not wrong. And we give everyone a 1-week free trial of that feature (while never asking for a credit card) to make sure users like it before buying it. Seems fair, right?! If they don't like the options we present them, then they don't upgrade to premium, and that's totally ok!


    EDIT: You said:


    I assume you want the same Crit:Strength ratio mentioned in a previous thread on 4/8, where I simmed it to show that with your weights, 3 of 4 cases got a 0.05% to 0.2% increase to DPS. Even though those are very small increases, I said we'd look into it some more and do more testing to see if we should update the weights. Well, a week later, we updated the weights because it was better in a majority of the cases So as far as I know, the Crit:Strength ratio is in line with your suggestions! We listened and updated it!!!

    The tool doesn't give bad advice. Or even 'average' advice as you stated. As you can see from the sims we did here, the default weights resulted in a 0.05 - 0.2% DPS loss. Users could still input their own custom weights, but we like to have the best defaults possible which is why we updated them based on your suggestion. But 0.2% isn't giving AVERAGE (or BAD) advice

    The current algorithm gets 99.9% of people to 99.9% optimal. That's pretty darn good!! But we don't stop there - as I mentioned, we're very close to having an algorithm that can both guarantee the BEST solution while optimizing in under a second. It's taken a few months to develop, and we're really excited to get it out to people for beta testing.



    ps: we aren't bad simmers lol! We do this as our full time jobs (as you pointed out, a for-profit site). We are simming things every day, checking results, working with users who find problems. I'd like to say, as humbly as possible, we're expert simmers In fact, some of Mr. Robot's best robo-friends call me simmer-cat. (that last part may be not be true...)
    I can think of a number of ways to improve the site that are layout based. And if you guys are "expert" simmers why is both your BiS list and trinket list WRONG?

    In the end, the site has gotten a little better. But I'm tired of doing your work for you for free, I don't have time. In the end, for the average person, the site is fine. But I don't want the warrior board here on MMO-C to go average, it's the one place besides the one thread on the official forums where good warriors still post. And most of them have given up trying to convince the large majority to play better.

    So until your site can match the accuracy of collision's sims, and the work of other good theorycrafters on this and the official forums, I am going to continue to tell people, for optimal results do not use AMR. I have no vested interest in making your site a success. I've tried to help ya'll in the past, and like I said you made some improvements. But again, I'm not going to do your work for you or advertise for your site until I'd use it to get the best results. And I'll be honest I play around with your site a few times a week or so, see what it does. Honestly, I love the concept, just not what it currently is.

    But honestly the strength of your site will never be in the gear optimizer. By it's very nature it can never give completely optimal results without extra user interaction, which if you're good enough to get you don't need AMR to begin with.

    The strength of your site will be in the trinket comparison, the ability to look at loot coin rolls, and the like. The ability to change around gear sets. Fixing your BIS and trinket list would be a good step in that direction.


    OH ONE LAST THING. I just checked using your "updated" stat weights. And I'm still getting pretty inaccurate results. I'm being told to go an extra .1% over EXP that is already wasted, an extra .47% hit, LOSE .37% crit and .45% mastery to gain 280 strength...NO.
    Last edited by Darkfriend; 2013-05-16 at 01:57 AM.

  20. #20
    Darkfriend, is a fraction of a percent increase in gear optimization so important that it warrants defacing a whole website that provides a free service for the public to optimize their gear in the most efficient way (in terms of effort vs reward)? I think we can agree that the people looking for help in these forums would benefit exponentially more from practicing their rotation, fixing their UI, learning optimum CD usage in each fight, etc., rather than worrying about doing all the extra work finding out how to optimize their characters with much less efficient alternatives (again, relating to the time they would have to put in to get maybe 0.2% better results) and go through all the work of learning how to sim their characters and understand what results they are getting because they are afraid that askmrrobot is robbing them of precious dps because of the negative comments you have posted. I feel like you think you are doing the community as a whole a favor, but in reality you are probably doing more harm in the growth of warriors seeking help because they are now worrying that the website they are using is keeping their numbers down, when that could not be farther from the truth. They should be focusing those hours of research on practice because I guarantee it will net them more than the 1k dps they can get from gemming and reforging in a slightly different way. All I have had to do was check the box that makes sure that AMR enforces hit and exp cap.

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