1. #1

    How do Ret Pallies fight Rogues?

    In 2v2's I've had problems with Rogue teams. Doesn't matter if they're with a healer or another dps. The moment they get on you, it's like a death sentence. A lot of Rogues seem to take me down to 20% health, which forces me to Bubble. I heal back up, they get back on me and dead. Trinket does nothing, cause they just stun me again anyway. I try to Hammer of the Righteous them, to give them the 10% physical damage reduction. I try to kite them, but they just get back on me.

    If I can get them out before they get on me, my team may have a chance. Though it's rare to do it. Sometimes my Holy Prism gets them, but not very reliable. My Hunter partner rarely gets them out too. Wondering what other Ret Paladins have done against Rogues.

  2. #2
    Pit Lord Mifuyne's Avatar
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    How do Ret Pallies fight Rogues?
    They lay down on their stomach and pretend to be dead.

    On a more serious note, rogues are pretty strong as of right now.
    You won't be winning (mostly) when you 1v1 against one.
    The best chance you have is make sure you take care of the healer for a bit and unleash your wrath and your teammates on the rogue while the healer is licking bubblegum from the floor.
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  3. #3
    The Patient
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    Mifuyne is correct, unless the rogue has already used his opener on someone else and you happen to come up and he is under 50% hp. Then pop all you got and hop your trink is off cd. If not the use, Ra'sha's Sacrificial Dagger to deny him of a an hk.

    edit: didn't see that it was 2's. yeah good luck

  4. #4
    Try not to think of it as "being forced to use cooldowns because you are low". Using your bubble/HoP just to get a few flash of lights is probably not going to help, use these cooldowns more proactively to break the rogues burst cooldowns, such as bubbling Shadow Blades, regardless of your health. Divine Protection also works well there because a portion of their damage becomes magical. Try to prevent the rogue getting restealth openers on you, possibly using censure dot although it can be tough if the rogues is Subterfuge specced.

    That said, dealing with rogues is different depending on spec. Shadow Dance is a good thing to bubble, but if they are combat its Killing Spree you should watch out for. Assassination rogues can have more of their damage reduced in general by magic reductions (Poison damage on Envenom and strong Deadly Poison), and you can Bubble Vendetta to clear it off you completely. Try to get your healing off whenever you have a free second, if he stealths start using flash of light, your healing is most likely better than his over time, and he will be trying to bust you down with all his major cooldowns back to back.

  5. #5
    Unfortunately my friend there is nothing you can do rogues are just that powerful right now that if they get the opener on you its game over.

    Every single ability we have they have one better to counter it.

    Fingers crossed for 5.3

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by squid View Post
    That said, dealing with rogues is different depending on spec. Shadow Dance is a good thing to bubble, but if they are combat its Killing Spree you should watch out for. Assassination rogues can have more of their damage reduced in general by magic reductions (Poison damage on Envenom and strong Deadly Poison), and you can Bubble Vendetta to clear it off you completely. Try to get your healing off whenever you have a free second, if he stealths start using flash of light, your healing is most likely better than his over time, and he will be trying to bust you down with all his major cooldowns back to back.
    If you see a Rogue rolling Assass in PVP the best thing you can do is spam /lol at them.

  7. #7
    Assuming you are playing with a dps partner in 2s and fighting a 2dps rogue team, rogues are very susceptible to switches on them with their trinket down, and they are still very much squishy and easy to plow through with cooldowns up. You have to take advantage that Rets are so very cooldown heavy, and try to end the game as fast as possible and avoid dragging it out.

    Generally I see rogue/mage for rogue teams, and the general plan is to somehow force a pvp trinket on the rogue or early iceblock on the mage, and then run them down with a second cd up, so depending on your team composition, there are many ways to accomplish this goal. Usually what works is the second I'm hit with a deep freeze, I trinket it, and Blinding Light the mage and rogue. One of them will usually trinket, and this gives me and my partner a chance to drop some cooldowns on them, or get a little recovery time for me to hide behind a pillar. If the rogue trinkets, you hit him with a stun and kill him in it. In a general example: a warrior with Recklessness and Skull Banner, and then a Ret using GoAK, HA and AW will kill a rogue in those 6 seconds easy, unless the mage is forced to blow his trinket/iceblock and then PoM sheep one of us. If we don't succeed in killing the rogue here, he flees, and we turn on the mage who will be forced to block if he hasn't yet, or die.

    Again, this isn't a scenario that happens 10/10 times, but you get the gist of it. In a 1v1 situation with a rogue, you will never stand a chance against them because of restealthing and the control they have over us. In an arena fight, you just have to take advantage of how flimsy they are, though they may seem otherwise. Evasion is annoying, but doesn't work when they're stunned or you're behind them. Cloak of Shadows is great, but is useless against physical abilities. Combat Readiness is the only thing that can slow your roll, and it's a talent in the same tier as deadly throw.

  8. #8
    good post by Bacon. just a question though, can you blinding light the rogue if he's in subterfuge? also, if trinket+blind is the standard counter to a rogue opener you might want to make sure he's not cloaking offensively.
    Last edited by Bonkura; 2013-05-14 at 01:16 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    If you see a Rogue rolling Assass in PVP the best thing you can do is spam /lol at them.
    Assassination is fine, they just trade burst for more consistent damage. Better than combat in PVP who do 0 damage outside of killing spree.

  10. #10
    Blinding Light should work on rogues in Subterfuge. Ideally you don't want to trinket the opener unless the rogue has popped cooldowns, in which trinketing and blinding him will pressure him to trinket as well to make use of his cd's, leaving him open to eat a full duration FoJ. On the other hand, you don't want to trinket unless its to keep uptime on your own cd's, or you risk getting blinded+sapped for the entirety of your HA/AW/GoAK. You can counter this by using Hand of Sacrifice on your partner just as you blow all your cds. Hopefully the enemy team doesn't notice your sacrifice and doesn't dispel it, and they pour disorients/polymorphs into you only for them to break early and cause DRs. You're shit outta luck if you get feared though.

    And anytime you're fighting any mage, you must either bubble or trinket a deep freeze if your partner cannot do something to stop the mage from killing you. Even if you preemptively use Divine Protection, you can die in a deep freeze to a mage by himself. So keep that in mind when fighting rogue/mage teams.

  11. #11
    Kite as much as possible blow wings and hammer them as much as possible but even this doesn't work most of the time i get 3 shotted.

  12. #12

  13. #13
    Make a grin like my avatar, and just wait for him to finish you. Then find some easy target and take out all your frustrations on

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    In 2v2's I've had problems with Rogue teams.
    Nothing you can do, it's been always like this pretty much.

    As long Rogues have the mobility to sit on you the whole time, the freedom to pick and choose fights and reset them at will, the survivability and cc to negate your cooldowns and the pressure they can put out with nerf-worthy damage (shadow blades, I'm looking at you) you will always be fodder for Rogues in 2s.

  15. #15
    If the rogue on their team is truly the issue of whats killing you (shouldn't be, if he has a mage partner) then you can bubble the second you see Shadow Blades (and likely his Shadow Dance at the same time as well) since it only lasts 12 seconds. Of course you'll have to plan for all that damage to be thrown at your partner instead, and you have used your trinket/debuff clear from bubble, and now have a minute to kill the rogue before his next dance kills you if his partner doesn't. You'll mitigate much more damage if you bubble when you see his cooldowns than you'd be able to heal up after you bubble at near death.

  16. #16
    there is a way u can deal with rogues but you would have to give up all your offense and go full defensive-
    You will have to spec into:
    Fist of Justice (should already be specced)
    Sacred shield
    Hand of Purity
    Divine Purpose

    and glyph Divine Prot, Flash of Light, and Templar verdict

    use Seal of Truth and keep Sacred Shield up at all times...when rogue opens on you use Hand of purity (usable while stunned if im not mistaken) Do not trinket, once out stuns use divine prot and use the guardian but not wings. when on the offense use Wog whenever you get Divine Purpose procs to get as much health back as possible. rogue will prolly vanish, heal as much as possible. When rogue re-opens use hand of purity and sacred shield then burst him dwn.

  17. #17
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
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    I'm not the highest rated Reti out there so I may be wrong in all my stuff but I'll try to help with what I do:

    If they open on you with cools just Trinket IMMEDIATELY and use Blinding Light. If it's a 2x DPS combo just pop your bubble and start wearing them off and then pop cools once the bubble is down and tear one of them apart. Second time the rogue comes you'll have your bubble (if you use trinket) or your trinket if you used bubble.

    If you want to beat the rogue you have to play an offensive defense in my experience. You need to generate HoPo to heal yourself and get SH stacks for extra heals. I always run SoJ to snare them but might be useful to switch to SoT a tad to keep Censure rolling and force them to blow cloak if they want to vanish (since you run with a Hunter you can skip this part and just have him keep his poisons rolling on the rogue).

    If you face a Rogue + Healer (specially Disc or MW) then you're in for a hell of a ride. Usually people go for the healer but your best bet would be to keep CC on the healer as much as possible, force the rogue to pop defensive cools and once he's blown them you gotta pop all you got and bring him down fast. It's risky, it's a very long shot, but that's the only thing I've done that worked (I can barely get past 1750 rating on 2s atm so take my advice with a grain of salt, it's just what I do).


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