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  1. #41
    I am still sticking with mastery over haste at 528 ilvl feels a lot safer, I don't like relying on trinket and the meta proc to increase my dps slightly through going haste.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by T Man View Post
    So even if shadowcraft says to gem and reforge haste, we should still go mastery?
    no haste ist already better with meta+1 rppm trinket and in heroic gear its equal to mastery with just the meta and no rppm trinket, with 2 rppm trinkets+meta there is no reason to not go full haste (and that target downtime thing is just stupid, no idea where you get this, but the rppm thing even gets stronger with damage downtimes , even when it is such a small factor that you wont will notice it) In BIS Gear there is no no no no no reason to not go for full Haste, its just stupid to say something like this

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by bi0 View Post
    no haste ist already better with meta+1 rppm trinket and in heroic gear its equal to mastery with just the meta and no rppm trinket, with 2 rppm trinkets+meta there is no reason to not go full haste (and that target downtime thing is just stupid, no idea where you get this, but the rppm thing even gets stronger with damage downtimes , even when it is such a small factor that you wont will notice it) In BIS Gear there is no no no no no reason to not go for full Haste, its just stupid to say something like this
    And yet theres a bunch of top Rogues still going full mastery, so you probably just making things up rather than listenning to actual theorycrafting here.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by bi0 View Post
    no haste ist already better with meta+1 rppm trinket and in heroic gear its equal to mastery with just the meta and no rppm trinket, with 2 rppm trinkets+meta there is no reason to not go full haste (and that target downtime thing is just stupid, no idea where you get this, but the rppm thing even gets stronger with damage downtimes , even when it is such a small factor that you wont will notice it) In BIS Gear there is no no no no no reason to not go for full Haste, its just stupid to say something like this
    And it's been proven a lot of times that:
    - haste advantage over mastery is minimal
    - when you get enough haste, you'll reach the "sweet point" at which mastery become better again
    - all the talk here is theoretical and based on the simulations/calculations, while actual raid enviroment is subjected to RNG, actual mechanics instead of a patchwerk fight, and the person actually playing the rogue
    - mastery still scales extremely well for assa, it's just that new implemented mechanics have artificially raised the value of haste.

    You want to go full haste? Totally fine, also your perfomance will be good.

    But look at actual parses. Full mastery rogues are rocking good even with all the shenanigans about haste.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by DakonBlackblade View Post
    And yet theres a bunch of top Rogues still going full mastery, so you probably just making things up rather than listenning to actual theorycrafting here.
    Yeah they are, but the problem with haste is that it may be superior in a theoretical vacuum or over 10k iterations, but the reason it closed on mastery is due to the rppm trinkets and in an individual relatively short duration fight, you may or may not actually see any benefit (energy/auto attacks aside). A very small theoretical loss for a more stable dps output makes a lot of sense.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    Yeah they are, but the problem with haste is that it may be superior in a theoretical vacuum or over 10k iterations, but the reason it closed on mastery is due to the rppm trinkets and in an individual relatively short duration fight, you may or may not actually see any benefit (energy/auto attacks aside). A very small theoretical loss for a more stable dps output makes a lot of sense.
    Dont know why you quoted me here, I agree with your above statement (and was already agreeing with it on my first post).

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by fierydemise View Post
    At lower ilvls crit and haste are very close in value and will swap places with each other in the ep order. At higher gear levels/with an RPPM item or two haste becomes clearly better than crit and you start having to balance it with mastery.
    The EP for Haste is like 1k more than Crit, but if I actually reforge for Haste over Crit, it's a DPS loss. I must be in some sweet spot for Haste, I guess.
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  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by DakonBlackblade View Post
    Dont know why you quoted me here, I agree with your above statement (and was already agreeing with it on my first post).
    I was disagreeing with you that those saying haste weren't "listening to actual theorycrafting."

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    But look at actual parses. Full mastery rogues are rocking good even with all the shenanigans about haste.
    I'm not saying that full mastery sucks with this post nor the opposite, but I just wanted to point out something.

    Increasing haste, you're increasing trinket uptime (plus autoattack damage and energy regen, ofc). Increasing mastery, you're increasing poison damage.

    While trinket uptime can (and will) be increased by streaks of good luck (which is mostly the case for top wol parses, especially for a spec like assassination which has little mastering), poison damage can't, mastery's the only one affecting it.

    That means that provided you have a good luck streak, haste is getting less and less valuable, but mastery's value is staying roughly the same. While that is almost non-noticeable during normal play, that obviously stands our clearly when you look at top wol parses, because most of those are dictated by luck (or ignoring mechanics) rather than good play, due to the very little skill required to play assassination to its fullest potential.
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  10. #50
    Increasing mastery, you're increasing poison damage.
    And Envenoms damage as well. It can be confusing whether those are poisons or not, so it's better clearing thing. Since Envenom damage (without considering the buff) represents ~13% of our total damage on a standard encounter, this strenghten a lot the mastery choice for those that weren't thinking Envenom as "poison".

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