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  1. #1

    Is ToT too challenging causing the guild break ups?

    We have all seen alot of changes come with throne of thunder. In all honesty I think they are all for the better. But I wanted to bring to everyones attention the difficulty of this tier. this isnt to QQ about how it is too hard. because TOT is the best raid we have had since Ulduar. but to point out the stress it has been causing alot of guild and I wonder if it is the reason guilds are falling apart.

    Becuase of the difficulty can this be the reason we see fatboss fall. and see Exodus fall apart. or is it simply becuase the content is rolling out too quickly and we arent given a chance to breathe or take a break between races for top tier progression.

    All in all. whatever the cause be. I wanted to see what the community thought. I know guilds rise. guilds fall. but this patch. not becuase content is bad. I believe the difficulty is causing strain and what wouldnt seem like faults in a raid team are now becoming very apparent. I just reflect and see alot of it happening.

  2. #2
    Elemental Lord Hyve's Avatar
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    I think to blame entirely the difficultly of Throne of Thunder as a reason for guild breakups isn't quite right, but I think it is part of the calculation.

    Combined with the disappointing Legendary Series, Daily Quests, Reputation Gating, and many other issues, are some of the reasons I left. Throne of Thunder is a good difficulty level I think, but combined with the rest of the expansion, it might be a little too much.

  3. #3
    Isnt that just a means of alot of content. I feel like they have given us so much. unless maybe its that there is too much of a time constraint to actually succeed and do well. I do like the meta gems they introduced into the game. it does help everyone feel like they gain a huge sense of growth through the tier. and does make things alot easier.

    Difficulty I say is becuase of how much time this tier actually took to finish. if you look at wow progress. the number is still so very low compared to previous tiers. to be fair. I dont have exact numbers. but alot of guilds came together and completed DS and went 8/8HM. and there was little content there. now we got alot of challenges. and those DS guilds arent really pushing through this tier becuase of its challenge.

  4. #4
    Herald of the Titans Injin's Avatar
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    it is indeed pointlessly overtuned for a normal mode raid.

    I don't think it's the main reason for the guild break ups though. Main one I am having right now can be summed up as "summer is coming."
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  5. #5
    Short answer for the OP: yes, difficulty is the problem.

    They really need to find out who Mr. Hardcore is making the design decision and hand him a pink slip. I fear it may be Morhaime himself.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
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  6. #6
    to hard to easy, to hot to cold, in and its out, to old to new.. this is the internet.

  7. #7
    I mean I am all for how hard content is. but I do like the time to enjoy it also. we saw maybe about 500 World kills of heroic sha. and then a new raid was rolled out that was even harder. there was never a chance to say. man that was really tough. now lets take a quick 5 and reflect.

    It was. omg heroic sha. wait now ther eis a new patch. hit the ptr even though we havent exactly finished yet. that makes alot of guild questions. man, why did we not finish this tier. and I feel like they look to thier piers of what they could of done better. and causing in house problems. your best friend joe is no longer wanted with his decent numbers becuase if we go that route. we wont get any time to breathe inbetween content.

  8. #8
    I play in a small casual guild, and I love the challenge ToT gives a guild like mine that most likely never will see 13/13 hc in ToT while it's current content. We are having so much fun right now and a lot of people in the guild is talking about how good ToT is.

    It's just that much for fun and rewarding finally killing Horridon normal or Council normal for the first time after having to spend time learning the fights and progress through them for more then one raid night then there is to face rolling a boss the first time you see it.
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  9. #9
    Old God Nerraw's Avatar
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    I think it's kinda funny. When the raids are accessible, the forums are filled with complaints about how Blizzard is catering to "casuals" at the cost of "true raiders". When they turn up the difficulty, suddenly the forums are filled with complaints about the game being too hard.

  10. #10
    High Overlord Pedrolo's Avatar
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    For my normal 10 man guild progression it's hard. 1/12, more than 90 wipes in Horridon. But it's fine we will go over it or die trying!

  11. #11
    You could carry a derpy tank to 4/8H DS. You could carry a derpy dps to 8/8H DS. You can't carry a derpy tank through normal Stone Guard until the healers are in heroic gear. You can't carry a derpy dps through normal Elegon until the rest of the dps are in very good gear. You can't carry any derps through Amber Shaper without just going multiple wipes and hoping for the right people to be transformed.

  12. #12
    I enjoy ToT overall but my big problem is that small subsets of the raid have to learn specialized skills for several fights. If they are not present on an attempt after they've learned it, the raid wipes while someone new learns it. Examples: kicking turtles, flying nests.

  13. #13
    Pit Lord Odina's Avatar
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    No it's not too hard but too many are looking back on 10 mans with rose tinted glasses from the past and only remebering WOTLK 10 man normal and tryign to figure out why 10 normal now is so much harder... News flash it's tuned to the same level that WOTLK 25 normals were so if you did not do those then you really should not comment on how "hard" 10 mans are now!

    Another one is too many remeber how "easy" DS was... yea...it was easy...with that 30% nerf it was a stomp fest!

    Normal modes are perfect for the AVG raider but yes they are too hard for the AVG player and that was always the case up untill the instance wsa either Nerfed bad or they got enough gear to just throw gear at it untill it died... difference is there isnt 5-6 easy bosses to farm gear up to throw this time around and they are actually expected to play there toon properly!

  14. #14
    If ToT is too challenging and causing your guild to break up then your guild had some issues to begin with. Normal ToT is just about perfect as far as balance goes, heroics seem to be tuned appropriately as well. I think the biggest issue is that guilds who aren't that skilled don't extend lockouts. Instead of trying to clear 12/12 in a week, why not a fortnight? The only thing any of these fights require is awareness and a couple raid addons, provided you have the gear of course.

  15. #15
    Pit Lord Odina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedrolo View Post
    For my normal 10 man guild progression it's hard. 1/12, more than 90 wipes in Horridon. But it's fine we will go over it or die trying!
    hey if you have any wol or overall "wtf is going on" issues just send a PM This forrum has a great community of people that are willing to help if help is asked for! That is another one of the issues...people call for nerfs faster than they try to find solutions!

  16. #16
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    10m N-Mageaera is very overtuned when you come straight from the first 4 easy bosses. Our 10m alt raid(we aren't serious and don't always have the same team) had been c**kblocked by Magaera for the past 4 weeks or so.

    We finally killed him last week, Ji-Kun took 2 wipes of just figuring who goes on nests etc., at that point we ran out of time and only got 5-6 tries on Durumu with best attempt around 25%, just had a few derps with dealing with the life leech and people dying in the maze(since some melee are now on range alts etc., it's different than they are used to)

  17. #17
    Brewmaster Knadra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyve View Post
    I think to blame entirely the difficultly of Throne of Thunder as a reason for guild breakups isn't quite right, but I think it is part of the calculation.

    Combined with the disappointing Legendary Series, Daily Quests, Reputation Gating, and many other issues, are some of the reasons I left. Throne of Thunder is a good difficulty level I think, but combined with the rest of the expansion, it might be a little too much.
    I don't know it has happened where some of the world's top raiding guilds have disbanded due to raid difficulty. Cuties only and Death by Taxes for instance.
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  18. #18
    I think it has more to do with the linearity of the raid as opposed to straight difficulty. Ulduar and ICC were great because if you were stuck on a certain boss, Putricide or Thorim, for example, then you could move on to another boss and work on that and still obtain gear, then go back and kill the boss you couldn't before. Now, if you're stuck on Ji-Kun, then you're stuck on him until you kill him. This in itself causes burnout because until you kill him you can't attempt any other bosses that you haven't done.

  19. #19
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    While it seems normal is perceived as too hard, I doubt Exodus broke up about it.

    But if it is any consolation, WotLKs raidstyle, whatever you want to call it got blamed for guilds breaking up. At the same time it was a bdage of honor if you "bragged" how your guild broke apart on M'uru.

    Dunno...people get older, guilds change ...Death and Taxes used to be a top guild. SKGaming, Nihilum, merging to Ensidia...then Paragon overtook them all and in T15 Method comes out on top while others stop.
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  20. #20
    Scarab Lord Shampro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerraw View Post
    I think it's kinda funny. When the raids are accessible, the forums are filled with complaints about how Blizzard is catering to "casuals" at the cost of "true raiders". When they turn up the difficulty, suddenly the forums are filled with complaints about the game being too hard.
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