Page 5 of 65 FirstFirst ...
3
4
5
6
7
15
55
... LastLast
  1. #81
    Herald of the Titans Beavis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Van down by the river
    Posts
    2,836
    Quote Originally Posted by pallyopness View Post
    i mean honest question here.....if raids were too easy and you cleared them easily, would you still raid? seems to be you'd get tired of farming the same bosses for over a year just because blizzard caved into people not willing to prepare properly
    Gating aside, I think Icecrown Citadel had it about perfect. Normal modes were simultaneously challenging enough to keep low skilled raiders occupied for months while easy enough for the moderate and high skilled guilds to blow through quickly enough to get to heroics. And then heroics were tuned in such a way that the high end guilds got to the truly challenging content fast while the people in the middle got to tangle with the lower end heroics. Pretty much all things to all people. And for the truly bad, there was 10-man normal.

    Blizzard signed the death warrant for raiding when they merged lock outs. It was an absolutely insane decision.
    When survival is the goal, it's into the spider hole!

  2. #82
    i mean if normal ToT is too hard and your ilvl is adequate, that is why blizzard made LFR.....if you feel that you are better than the LFR raid but arent progressing as a guild, then simple fact is you need to look for resources to better yourself. It falls on player responsibility, NOT blizzard. There are 3 different raiding difficulties.....Heroic raiding was not meant to be for everyone so blizzard isnt going to simply nerf content at the start of releases. Im sorry if those stuck on horridon with 500+ ilvls feel its overtuned and think they are better than other players in lfr, but the fact of the matter is you arent. There are different difficulties to help you get better, if you dont utilize the system and help yourself achieve a better playing ability its not up to blizzard to hand you kills.
    Last edited by pallyopness; 2013-05-14 at 04:53 PM.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by pallyopness View Post
    i mean if normal ToT is too hard and your ilvl is adequate, that is why blizzard made LFR.....
    This argument has been made and debunked repeatedly on these forums. Go back and read before repeating this fallacy.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  4. #84
    Playerbase: normals are too hard, we don't want a second job, and you're losing subs because of it
    Blizzard: look! Lfr!
    Playerbase: that's too easy! it's not real raiding, we're insulted that you've relegated us to easy mode
    Blizzard: ok, we'll nerf normals a bit

    (one month passes by)

    Playerbase: heroics are too hard, we don't want a second job, and you're losing subs because of it
    Blizzard: but you have lfr and norma...
    Playerbase: THEY'RE BOTH TOO EASY, STOP INSULTING US WITH SCRUB CONTENT
    Blizzard:.....
    ...

    ..

    ok, we're going to make a card game.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-14 at 12:53 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    This argument has been made and debunked repeatedly on these forums. Go back and read before repeating this fallacy.
    It has? Where?
    Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Playerbase:
    Wow, the playerbase is a giant hive mind that speaks in unison. I'm enlightened now.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  6. #86
    Please stop calling for nerfs. If you have a set group of raiders with DBM, you can clear Normal ToT in a few weeks, at least in 10 man (especially with the Horridon/Council/Megaera nerfs). 25 man requires considerably more coordination but with the exception of Qon healing p1 and Megaera healing (if you're under geared/don't have the dps to push the breaths before 4), and Lei Shen p2 dps check (at least my guild's strategy), the raid is still not too difficult. This is coming from a guy who has no heroic experience yet in t15 (aside from an hour of H Jinrokh). The raids aren't that difficult, it doesn't take much to read a few pages on your class and watch a ten minute video explaining the fights.

  7. #87
    The Lightbringer shise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Spaniard in Copenhagen
    Posts
    3,864
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    it is indeed pointlessly overtuned for a normal mode raid.

    I don't think it's the main reason for the guild break ups though. Main one I am having right now can be summed up as "summer is coming."

    Normal mode is really easy. I mean, seriously it is. Just be sure to have hte proper gear (which you most cetainly do) and follow the tactics... it's plain easy and simple.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by shise View Post
    Normal mode is really easy. I mean, seriously it is. Just be sure to have hte proper gear (which you most cetainly do) and follow the tactics... it's plain easy and simple.
    That's why so many people have completed it -- because it's so easy!

    Oh wait.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    This argument has been made and debunked repeatedly on these forums. Go back and read before repeating this fallacy.
    LOL? debunked? it's an opinion...you cannot debunk an opinion, sorry sir...let me rephrase my prior post for you....IMHO if regular difficulty is too challenging than its better you raid content that is more suitable. LFR is the easier of the 2 choices, you should stay there instead of complaining and ruining the gaming for a massive amount of players by nerfing everything.

  10. #90
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Posts
    10,842
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    ToT normal is simple to hard and to say otherwise is ignorant. All that needs to be done with raiding is encaspulated in my signature.
    This is an opinion. It's an opinion that may be shared by many but it's still an opinion. Do not make the mistake of thinking that anyone that disagrees with your opinion is 'ignorant'. The same for those that may want to reach for the word 'retarded'. Don't go there.
    If you have anything to contribute to a thread topic, please do so. Discussing moderation or calling out specific people is against the rules and makes a post liable for an infraction. Please report problem posts. If anyone is unclear about the rules please read our FAQ. Thanks.

    It's a magical world, Hobbes, ol' buddy...let's go exploring!

  11. #91
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    In my bunker leading uprisings
    Posts
    9,407
    Please stop saying it's easy. Get your heads out of your asses and understand that not everyone is you. THE ACHIEVEMENT FOR DEFEATING THE RAID ON NORMAL IS CALLED AHEAD OF THE CURVE:LEI SHEN. How in gods fucking name can it be tuned for normal raiders? Even the developers do not agree with that...
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    That's why so many people have completed it -- because it's so easy!

    Oh wait.
    Just because people aren't doing it doesn't mean its hard. Raiding is not a large portion of the playerbase, and many guilds are still doing T14 Heroics to gear up for Horridon and beyond. The speed at which Blizzard released T14 and T15 meant that not everyone would finish T14 in time for T15 (which is in no way bad, because T14 is still there....), and I know there are a pretty decent number of guilds on my server at least that clear 1/12 ToT and immediately hop back into H HoF or H Terrace.

  13. #93
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    In my bunker leading uprisings
    Posts
    9,407
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    This is an opinion. It's an opinion that may be shared by many but it's still an opinion. Do not make the mistake of thinking that anyone that disagrees with your opinion is 'ignorant'. The same for those that may want to reach for the word 'retarded'. Don't go there.
    It is the most correct opinion one can have on the matter. So correct that it is virtually indistinguishable from fact. Ignorance on the part of the vocal minority will not changed this.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  14. #94
    there are over 10,000 guilds who have completed at least 6/12 regular........that is at MINIMUM 100,000 players.......thats not even including 25 mans into the equation which raises it much higher....also 10,000 is my base number for using...a guild on my server is ranked 10,686 at 6/12 regular.......that is a lot of people capable of doing more than 2 bosses....sorry

  15. #95
    Bloodsail Admiral Chrispotter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    1,197
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    That's why so many people have completed it -- because it's so easy!

    Oh wait.
    6474 Guilds have killed Lei Shen Normal. Even if all of them were only 10 mans, thats still 64740 people that have completed it. Then Take into consideration about 30% of those guilds are 25 man. Yeh.... Many people HAVE completed it on normal, because it IS so easy. Also then consider that alot of these are probably 14 year olds playing only 1 night a week. Yeehhhh

    Okay 30% is a large exageration, but still you get my point.
    800 25 mans = 20,000 Players, excluding players who have been swapped in after the first kill is made, the real number is more likely to be around 25000 for 25 man players.
    5677 10 mans = 66,770 players, excluding players who have been swapping in after the first kill is made, the real number is more likely to be around 68,000 for 10 man players.

    I guess approx 93 Thousand players killing it isnt enough for you.
    Last edited by Chrispotter; 2013-05-14 at 05:06 PM.
    www.twitch.tv/xchrispottertvx
    We ( Rapid Eye Movement) sell a variety of boosts. Private message me for more info.
    So far on 1 Char: Top 10 Destro PR Ranks, top 30 Afflic PR Ranks, TOp 30 Demo PR Ranks.
    Rapid Eye Movement World 15th 25 man Guild. - www.remgaming.com

  16. #96
    Most fights on normal have like 1 mechanic that will wipe the raid...If you can't properly manage 1 ability I am glad your guild is falling apart because that is just sad. (Ex: Kicking Turtles on Tortos, Durumu Maze, Ionization on H-Jinrohk)....They aren't exactly overly complicated abilities.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by jayinjersey View Post
    I agree.

    And to that poster I would say, try running it again with only low 500 gear...it's still quite challenging
    My guild cleared 6/12 with 8 of 10 people under 500 ilvl in the first two weeks it was out. It's coordination that's stopping people, not gear. In 25 man, our average ilvl was 502 when we killed Megaera the first time. I will give you that Primordius, Qon, and Lei Shen do require a bit of gear, but 9 of the 12 bosses are coordination and mechanics checks with relatively easy enrage timers.

  18. #98
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    In my bunker leading uprisings
    Posts
    9,407
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrispotter View Post
    6474 Guilds have killed Lei Shen Normal. Even if all of them were only 10 mans, thats still 64740 people that have completed it. Then Take into consideration about 30% of those guilds are 25 man. Yeh.... Many people HAVE completed it on normal, because it IS so easy. Also then consider that alot of these are probably 14 year olds playing only 1 night a week. Yeehhhh
    Calling 64740 people many out of potential millions is a joke. Relative to even the previous tier it's a joke. NORMAL IS TO FUCKING OVERTUNED AND HARD. Get it through your heads people.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyve View Post
    I think to blame entirely the difficultly of Throne of Thunder as a reason for guild breakups isn't quite right, but I think it is part of the calculation.

    Combined with the disappointing Legendary Series, Daily Quests, Reputation Gating, and many other issues, are some of the reasons I left. Throne of Thunder is a good difficulty level I think, but combined with the rest of the expansion, it might be a little too much.
    The design issues of MoP seemed to speed up burn out for a lot of people. Sure they have fixed a lot of it but the damage was already done for many people. Having such a long quest chain, that for many was lack luster but still needed for alt, mixed in with the way they gated and tied in rep and valor and people end up playing alts less then they would have. Without that they burn out on their main and stop playing.

    Many of the raid fights do seem to be overloaded with mechanics and extra action button usage. For me this was at its worst in HoF were it felt like you just had a lot of busy work for the sake of having it. When you keep dumping that on people they get tired of it. Blizzard seems to be all over the place with some design and running with the idea that we need more and more animation and a flooding of abilities. You end up with this feeling you are at a bad 80s glam rock show with the band lip syncing, while things explode and light up everywhere.
    Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before... He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. -Kurt Vonnegut, "Cat's Cradle"
    "Not everything on the internet is true." -- Abraham Lincoln
    Good is the enemy of great.

  20. #100
    The Lightbringer Valarius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Whales
    Posts
    3,429
    Eh.. no. I'm sure some guilds break up because they can't faceroll everything but I was enjoying the tier. The reason my guild fell apart is that we lost 3 raiders out of our 10 close friends to IRL shit and on a dead realm, finding players who can replace them is a bit impossible.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •