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  1. #1101
    Herald of the Titans Injin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by isadorr View Post
    nd speaking of "WoW," Sams said he expects "Titan" to eclipse "World of Warcraft" (a game that currently boasts more than 12 million subscribers), and added that they expect the game's reach to be "more hardcore than anything that we've done before."

    "We think that it's going to be very impactful in our industry and, we hope, very impactful to the world," Sams said. "The thing that we hope will happen is that it will not stop 'World of Warcraft' but we believe will eclipse it."

    And Sams pointed out that many of the people on the "Titan" team are the people who built "WoW." But with those employees being shifted over to "Titan" and so much focus being heaped on the forthcoming game, does this mean Blizzard plans to back away from supporting "WoW"?

    Not anytime soon.

    "I see 'World of Warcraft' as having many more years in front of it," Sams said. "We're going to continue to support that product for many, many years to come."

    One thing's for sure, Blizzard knows how to raise our expectations. But what is "Titan" going to look like? What is it going to play like? The company has been incredibly tight-lipped so far.
    If you read it properly, nowhere does it say that titan will be hardcore. It says Titans REACH will be hardcore.

    If he expects more than 12 million subs, you'd be crack smokingly batshit insane to think it means a game catered to hardcore raiders. Because there are like 15k of them in the western hemisphere, max.
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  2. #1102
    You can't really argue with isadorr or people like isadorr. I mean, blizzard basically said that 10 mans leave this gap between normals and lfr because of how they changed their raiding model. Many of us have been saying that in this thread and other threads like it. But of course people like isadorr plug their ears saying that normals modes are fine the way there are. Even with evidence to the contrary they will continue to deny that anything is wrong with how things are. For hardcore guilds, normals are easy and they SHOULD be, but for the average everyday run of the mill guild they are too hard. What does this even accomplish? All it does is cause guilds to die or to get cannibalized by the more hardcore guilds at a faster rate. Why can't you raid with your friends if you suck? Isn't that the point of an MMO? If you want to target everyone as your audience then why is raiding only accessible by a small amount of people? Furthermore, out of that small amount of people why should it matter who they are playing with? Why do so many people care what the crappy guilds are doing? Do you lose sleep at night because someone is beating a game on easy while you beat it on hard?

    Normals should be tuned for people who want to raid and can dedicate the times they set up to do it, and they should be able to do it with whoever they want. If you want normals to be hard, harder than they ever have been because "normals aren't for filthy bads" then you have problems. Problems that you're probably trying to hide from by playing this game so much.

    TLDR: Heroics should be for the hardcore and normals should be for everyone else.

  3. #1103
    Which is why the harcore player is a better business model than a casual who quits because of a challenge. Quality who will stick around for years or quantity who quits easily
    .

    Its like you are just making things up now... how on earth can you claim that?
    So the last 8 years Blizz should of just made content for the 3% of the population that could do heroics... so Blizz sub numbers would be 300k to 500k depending on what year it was...

    SUUUUURRRREEEE the better buisness model is to make a hardcore game that only 500k people pay 15 bucks a month for instead of 12 million in WotLK and 10 million they had in Cata and the 8 million now...

    Your buisness sense is pure genius...

    Leaving 40 billion dollars on the table over the past 8 years is a much much better buisness model....

    /facedesk

  4. #1104
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragashii View Post
    You can't really argue with isadorr or people like isadorr. I mean, blizzard basically said that 10 mans leave this gap between normals and lfr because of how they changed their raiding model. Many of us have been saying that in this thread and other threads like it. But of course people like isadorr plug their ears saying that normals modes are fine the way there are. Even with evidence to the contrary they will continue to deny that anything is wrong with how things are. For hardcore guilds, normals are easy and they SHOULD be, but for the average everyday run of the mill guild they are too hard. What does this even accomplish? All it does is cause guilds to die or to get cannibalized by the more hardcore guilds at a faster rate. Why can't you raid with your friends if you suck? Isn't that the point of an MMO? If you want to target everyone as your audience then why is raiding only accessible by a small amount of people? Furthermore, out of that small amount of people why should it matter who they are playing with? Why do so many people care what the crappy guilds are doing? Do you lose sleep at night because someone is beating a game on easy while you beat it on hard?

    Normals should be tuned for people who want to raid and can dedicate the times they set up to do it, and they should be able to do it with whoever they want. If you want normals to be hard, harder than they ever have been because "normals aren't for filthy bads" then you have problems. Problems that you're probably trying to hide from by playing this game so much.

    TLDR: Heroics should be for the hardcore and normals should be for everyone else.
    So basically do away with lfr, tune normal down to lfr standard and have the those clearing normal spend from the moment they unlock heroic modes, do heroic mode until the next tier finally comes along? Because that's basically what you're saying or can even be interpreted as do away with heroic raiding because if normal is tuned down then heroic would have to be tuned down to bridge the gap between normal to heroic and those who raid at a heroic level can just give up and quit or farm heroic level as they are now but for a LOT longer period then they currently are til the next tier/expansion?

    This is the result this kind of thing would lead to, the whole reason heroic raiders raid at the level they do is for the challenge of being the best they can be. If you can't bridge the gap from LFR to normal or pug normal even then it means the game is too hard and blizz should nerf/make things easier for you rather then you improving yourself as a player and stepping up the plate?

    Sorry but I really can't understand your logic here. I'm not agreeing to the comments about who you want to raid with and reasons for raiding with them but surely if something is holding you back even in life then you step up and deal with it, not whine about it until someone comes along and makes it all better to suit you.

    It's a harsh reality but that's the way of it, I know from experience... Been raiding since Vanilla but had 6months out during Wotlk due to my old pc blowing up in the middle of an Ulduar raid and couldn't afford to replace it straight away but instead had to save up the cash. By time I came back peeps were well into ICC and I was guildless so I just played casual/raider and got helped by friends guilds while I got caught up on gear, worked my way back and joined a raiding guild again.

    Eventually Blizz brought out the shared lock on 10 and 25 which screwed us as a 25man guild because officers decided they'd rather 10man it which lead to a few peeps getting pissed and leaving so in the end a lot of us left and made our own guild with me as GM. Quite a few of those I'm now real life friends with, we raided together through Cata at a pace that suited us but unfortunately the longevity of DS took it's toll and by the end of the expansion our realm was dead and so was our recruitment pool.

    Know what we did? We transferred as a guild to another realm bringing over 8 raiders and 37 casuals (I should add these people brought not only mains but alot of their alts too) which only got us far enough to clear up to Garalon in HoF and no further so we merged our guild with another that had previously moved from our old realm to the new one as well and started raiding 25man, finally cleared everything just as ToT came along but then we hit a brick wall. We could only clear 1 boss, had absolutely no hope on Horridon as a guild. Guess what happened then, I got pissed after a several weeks of this because if I'm brutally honest, my guys who by this point were down to 5 of the original raiders who transferred were doing better then the rest who made up the 25man from the merged guild.

    Reason we ended up so few in the guild merge in terms of raiders was that not all wanted to raid 25man any more. I explained how I felt to those same friends who I'd spent the last 2yrs+ with building our own guild and raiding together and not one of them tried to hold me back because they knew how much I like to raid, a few of them even helped me look for a new guild. I still chat to em on a regular basis and we still do LFR's, achievements and other stuff together but when it comes to raiding I've always been more then casual minded and they know this, for them raiding now, clearing what they're clearing is enough and they're happy with it but I wanted more from this game then the previous guild could provide.

    I'm now in a guild that's clearing 12/12 each week with little effort and we're basically ready for heroic but currently got few extra peeps who could use those last few upgrades, myself included to be the best we can be at this current point in time. Last I heard my previous guild who we merged with ended up going 10man due to lack of attendance in the end because peeps weren't willing to put in the extra effort and only want to do easy/farm bosses when the guilds cleared them, now the 10man is progressing, it's not fast progression but they're doing it all the same and it's by sheer hard work, determination and a little effort we've all got to where we want to be in this game.

    So sitting here whining about how hard things are because you can't clear a *Normal* raid is bull. If you really wanted to clear it you'd either work with your guild to improve or you'd move guilds/realms to succeed. It all comes down to what you want to do in this game and remember it is only a game, why get so bent out of shape because you can't clear content right now? What's truly wrong with playing a tier behind if you want to raid with friends and that's your current progression level?

    I understand wanting to raid current content but so what, if you have friends you enjoy playing with then enjoy that time and deal with the next tier/raid when you can at your own specific level of ability. Rome wasn't built in a day and it's not like the raids going anywhere, it'll still be there next week and many weeks after, hell by then you'll probably out gear it.
    Last edited by Emi666; 2013-05-17 at 04:51 AM.

  5. #1105
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    @ Emi666 -
    You guys are terrible. You haven't cleared 12/12HC yet? Waiting for people to get those last few upgrades? If you were truly pro, you'd already be in there killing bosses with the gear you have. Your raid members just need to get better and watch a few videos - not waiting for the rest of the group to hold their hands. It's not about gear, it's about skill.

    It doesn't feel so good, does it?

    Why is it so hard for you guys to look at things from other people's perspective? What happened to your empathy? Don't you want as many people as possible to enjoy the things you do? Right now, that's not happening. Right now there is a mode for people who want to be and truly are the best at this game: Heroic mode. There is a mode for people who cannot commit to an organized raid in any way, shape, or form: that is what LFR is for. Blizzard used to have a mode for people to get together in a tight-knit group based on average (See, there's that 'average' word again) skill level. But not this expansion.

    I mean, if you just glance at the numbers from whatever source you choose, they all say the same thing. Numbers are dropping. Is it caused by the difficulty being too hard? Who knows. There may very well be more than one cause. But for people to openly take a stance on a possible solution out of selfishness and a feeling of exclusivity is beyond me.

    If all of a sudden, after 4ish years or so, they decide that they weren't reaching the people with normal mode they were targeting, at least have the decency to explain to your customers 'Hey, with this mode we're changing it so that it no longer means what it used to mean', I'd be okay with that. I'd be relegated to LFR, and that's that. However, in the interview with IH, he notes that there was a group that wanted a mode that currently wasn't being served by the modes they have in place now.

    One could infer that he was referring to 'casual' raiders and normal mode, as that would probably be the most logical inference. But, those Blizzard personnel people, they are sly with their language and they say things without really saying anything.
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  6. #1106
    Quote Originally Posted by NRL1515 View Post
    @ Emi666 -
    You guys are terrible. You haven't cleared 12/12HC yet? Waiting for people to get those last few upgrades? If you were truly pro, you'd already be in there killing bosses with the gear you have. Your raid members just need to get better and watch a few videos - not waiting for the rest of the group to hold their hands. It's not about gear, it's about skill.

    It doesn't feel so good, does it?

    Why is it so hard for you guys to look at things from other people's perspective? What happened to your empathy? Don't you want as many people as possible to enjoy the things you do? Right now, that's not happening. Right now there is a mode for people who want to be and truly are the best at this game: Heroic mode. There is a mode for people who cannot commit to an organized raid in any way, shape, or form: that is what LFR is for. Blizzard used to have a mode for people to get together in a tight-knit group based on average (See, there's that 'average' word again) skill level. But not this expansion.

    I mean, if you just glance at the numbers from whatever source you choose, they all say the same thing. Numbers are dropping. Is it caused by the difficulty being too hard? Who knows. There may very well be more than one cause. But for people to openly take a stance on a possible solution out of selfishness and a feeling of exclusivity is beyond me.

    If all of a sudden, after 4ish years or so, they decide that they weren't reaching the people with normal mode they were targeting, at least have the decency to explain to your customers 'Hey, with this mode we're changing it so that it no longer means what it used to mean', I'd be okay with that. I'd be relegated to LFR, and that's that. However, in the interview with IH, he notes that there was a group that wanted a mode that currently wasn't being served by the modes they have in place now.

    One could infer that he was referring to 'casual' raiders and normal mode, as that would probably be the most logical inference. But, those Blizzard personnel people, they are sly with their language and they say things without really saying anything.
    I have to admit there are plenty of flaws in my game play and I am pretty bad at this game. I acknowledge that I have flaws but unlike some people I don't ask for content to be nerfed so I can do them. I would love to kill Lei Shen right now, but my skill level doesn't allow me to do that and I accept that fact.

  7. #1107
    Unfortunately like a few others @NRL who have gotten the wrong idea on the number drop recently and missed the previous threads and answers I'll explain although I think I've actually posted it somewhere in this thread as it was brought up before.

    The high number drop recently is not down to the difficulty but heavily due to the Asian market of players dropping their subs. These players completely screwed WoW and the game was actually made harder for them and they were also given an extra lockout each week to help entice them to keep playing but the fact remains that in Asia there are so many F2P games released on such a high and regular basis with quite decent gaming experience and challenging game play that it made no financial sense for them to continue paying subs to WoW when they can play games that are F2P and always constantly improving with the aim of giving the best experience possible in a gaming environment that exceeds WoW but only has X amount of life in it before it either becomes needed to pay to continue playing or the project is discontinued for their next big release.

    I'm not saying it's all like that there, there are many F2P games in Asia like the rest of the world where you pay if you want to get a certain item or in game currency or to enter instances/bgs whatever but they have such a high turn over of media (Example: Anime - new one every other week and they don't care if a series is 5 episodes or 500) that when it comes to this type of thing they just move on where as those like you, myself and the many others posting here or playing WoW will keep playing WoW until we're either bored, quit or find something better to do because we don't want to constantly have to rush level a character to max out the experience we get from a specific game before it's replaced and we gotta do it all over again if we want to experience that end game content where as in Asia they don't care about that part as much because it's basically just something they're used to doing game wise.

    Also add in the fact there's what, 8-12Million players on WoW? Asia alone makes up over 4 Billion of the worlds population on it's own :/

    As to my guilds progress, what can I say, we do things at our own pace and that's how people should approach this game. Stop with the *Oh we can't kill stuff so it must be too hard* business rofl. There's truly no need. There's so many ways to get ahead in this game it's stupid, all it takes is some effort on the players part to do so but calling for a nerf every time if a little bit difficult is just plain pointless. The nerfs will be in at some point, that's obvious, there's always nerfs eventually, hell the meta gem itself is a big boost for peeps so that's a nerf in and of itself. Noticed quite a difference in numbers when I got mine the other day.

    I'm not saying more people shouldn't have access to normal raids but bringing them down to your level of ability is not the answer, stepping up and getting better at your class and your role in a raid is. If people didn't improve in this game in any way and blizz just catered to the masses who *can't do something as good as the next gear whose playing the exact same class and role*, then this game was be boring as hell and I'm pretty sure you would really notice the difference in general in the raiding community as a whole.

    It's no different then the skills we apply in our lives, you go to school, you learn to read, write, math whatever and this prepares you for higher education and that then leads to more education if you want to study longer for a specific reason and then you start working applying the knowledge you've gained over the years which allows you to gain experience in your particular field of employment which in turn gives you the abilities you need to perform your job well or to even excel in your job/career choice.

    How is this any different to raiding? You level your class learning how to play it along the way, you get to max level and so must now work with the knowledge you've gained using it to gear, gem and reforge appropriately which in turns helps you get in to a raiding guild which then helps you perform better in raids which gets you further into progress which leads to more gear which gives better stats meaning if you play well you can perform the job/role better and better every time.

    All quite logical don't you think?

    As I also mentioned before, you don't even need to grind out dailies to gear, do some dungeons, spend justice in conversion to honor points, get 476 epics and skip 450 blues and get into LFR faster, farm it, get more gear and ilvl to get it to better raids and so on. This game hasn't gotten so much easier for people with less time to play then it used to be for those who raided Vanilla, TBC, Wotlk normal and hard modes, Cata normal and heroic and now MoP...

    Let me give you an example: TBC - Grind rep to be able to enter heroics so you could grind other rep to get some gear pieces so you could do start making head way on your attunements so you could enter raids where you grinded more rep and epics which only came from raids which lead to gaining attunements for the next tier and it was like that all the way into Wotlk, then we got rep tabards which were a joke to the raiding community at the time but it opened the doors for the casual player to start raiding. Do I personally begrudge those people? Hell no, good luck to em, had some decent pugs back then, good social atmosphere and everything.

    Cata was just crap and felt rushed and got nerfed way too early but now there's some distinction in the gap between LFR and normal meaning peeps actually gotta work a bit harder is all.

  8. #1108
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeverStop View Post
    I have to admit there are plenty of flaws in my game play and I am pretty bad at this game. I acknowledge that I have flaws but unlike some people I don't ask for content to be nerfed so I can do them. I would love to kill Lei Shen right now, but my skill level doesn't allow me to do that and I accept that fact.
    This is my favorite post in this thread so far.
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  9. #1109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    If he expects more than 12 million subs, you'd be crack smokingly batshit insane to think it means a game catered to hardcore raiders. Because there are like 15k of them in the western hemisphere, max.
    I highly doubt Titan or any MMO will ever again reach WoW's peak
    There is just too much competition these days in that market

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-17 at 07:22 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Emi666 View Post
    . These players completely screwed WoW and the game was actually made harder for them and they were also given an extra lockout each week to help entice them to keep playing but the fact remains that in Asia there are so many F2P games released on such a high and regular basis with quite decent gaming experience and challenging game play that it made no financial sense for them to continue paying subs to WoW when they can play games that are F2P .
    dont people in Asia also pay by the hour instead of a monthly fee?
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  10. #1110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    dont people in Asia also pay by the hour instead of a monthly fee?
    They do. I believe there are actual monthly subs, as well, but they are significantly cheaper than the US/EU subs.
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  11. #1111
    Quote Originally Posted by Arothand View Post
    The number of people experiencing this kind of lends itself to the fact a bigger problem than the overall difficulty ramp-up is that the curve is too large between Jin'rokh and Horridon. As stated previously there needs to be several fairly easy bosses in a new raid (and hey that's incentive to make them larger than 7 or 8 bosses lol) so guilds like yours and mine can down a few, feel good, and work on the later (and harder) bosses without getting burned out wiping on an early boss and feeling dejected because of it. I'd take the same overall difficulty with gradually harder bosses (with a few easy ones spread throughout after a particularly challenging boss) as well. Right now it absolutely kills morale to down Jin'rokh and hit a wall on Horridon every week.

    Like I said before, the ICC model was good enough because you were pretty much guaranteed to get at least to Saurfang, if not kill him. If Marrowgar had been as tough as Stone Guards were in T14, or how Horridon is now, guilds would have burned out in ICC as well.
    The problem is the players and not the game. I guess it's a trend to complain about getting stuck somewhere. I am not saying the bosses can't be tuned better, it's never perfect. But there are now so many ways to make encounters easier by yourself... Gear is so easy to obtain and you get to see the fights in LFR which is like experiencing encounters on the PTR for top guilds to get an advantage except LFR is unlimited.

    If you got stuck on Stone Guards you would have also got stuck on Feng. You apparently just got a tank in your guild that doesn't know how to taunt.
    I also don't see how Stone Guards was that much harder than Marrowgar... Maybe you raided ICC after nerfs or on 10 man which you obviously can't compare? There is really not a huge difference.

    "There is a big gap between LFR and normal". Seriously? Ofcourse there is. LFR is unorganized with 20% being afk and 50% being extremely bad and normal mode is organized raiding unless you run in without any preparation or communication. It's seriously all on you if you get stuck.

  12. #1112
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    Normal modes are too hard and that is really killing the casual/noob raiding scene which is the majority of the game. In my opinion MOP is a little to tedious with all the dailies and farmville and nonstop new reps you have to grind that is probably contributing to the the burnout of a lot of people.

  13. #1113
    Quote Originally Posted by Emi666 View Post
    The high number drop recently is not down to the difficulty but heavily due to the Asian market of players dropping their subs. These players completely screwed WoW and the game was actually made harder for them
    You must be kidding. The game was made harder? The game is only made easier and easier and more casual and accessible.

    I agree with the rest of your comment.

  14. #1114
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    If you read it properly, nowhere does it say that titan will be hardcore. It says Titans REACH will be hardcore.

    If he expects more than 12 million subs, you'd be crack smokingly batshit insane to think it means a game catered to hardcore raiders. Because there are like 15k of them in the western hemisphere, max.
    The game was never really being catered to anyone when it was released (referring to WoW). The game was just good and people played it.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-17 at 04:14 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by NeverStop View Post
    I have to admit there are plenty of flaws in my game play and I am pretty bad at this game. I acknowledge that I have flaws but unlike some people I don't ask for content to be nerfed so I can do them. I would love to kill Lei Shen right now, but my skill level doesn't allow me to do that and I accept that fact.
    I just want to say don't stop believing with your profile name.... DON'T STOP BELIEVING!!!! YOU CAN KILL LEI SHEN IF YOU GET BETTER!!!!
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  15. #1115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post
    You must be kidding. The game was made harder? The game is only made easier and easier and more casual and accessible.

    I agree with the rest of your comment.
    Maybe if you are comparing current LFR to Wotlk normal modes.

  16. #1116
    Quote Originally Posted by Volitar View Post
    Maybe if you are comparing current LFR to Wotlk normal modes.
    The game is easier, nothing else to say. Raids were harder in WOTLK than this shit, maybe Naxx was a bit too easy but Ulduar and ICC were much harder, like fuck if I had the urge to skin random animals that went past me, I'd sure as hell do it when I read stuff like this... But I'm not a critter killer.
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  17. #1117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aang View Post
    The game is easier, nothing else to say. Raids were harder in WOTLK than this shit, maybe Naxx was a bit too easy but Ulduar and ICC were much harder, like fuck if I had the urge to skin random animals that went past me, I'd sure as hell do it when I read stuff like this... But I'm not a critter killer.
    ICC was very easy on Normal. Ulduar had varying levels of difficulty, but was an open-concept raid where you could choose where you wanted to go, and bosses could be skipped/ignored. ToC was similarly very, very easy on Normal.
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  18. #1118
    Quote Originally Posted by NRL1515 View Post
    @ Emi666 -
    You guys are terrible. You haven't cleared 12/12HC yet? Waiting for people to get those last few upgrades? If you were truly pro, you'd already be in there killing bosses with the gear you have. Your raid members just need to get better and watch a few videos - not waiting for the rest of the group to hold their hands. It's not about gear, it's about skill.

    It doesn't feel so good, does it?

    Why is it so hard for you guys to look at things from other people's perspective? What happened to your empathy? Don't you want as many people as possible to enjoy the things you do? Right now, that's not happening. Right now there is a mode for people who want to be and truly are the best at this game: Heroic mode. There is a mode for people who cannot commit to an organized raid in any way, shape, or form: that is what LFR is for. Blizzard used to have a mode for people to get together in a tight-knit group based on average (See, there's that 'average' word again) skill level. But not this expansion.

    I mean, if you just glance at the numbers from whatever source you choose, they all say the same thing. Numbers are dropping. Is it caused by the difficulty being too hard? Who knows. There may very well be more than one cause. But for people to openly take a stance on a possible solution out of selfishness and a feeling of exclusivity is beyond me.

    If all of a sudden, after 4ish years or so, they decide that they weren't reaching the people with normal mode they were targeting, at least have the decency to explain to your customers 'Hey, with this mode we're changing it so that it no longer means what it used to mean', I'd be okay with that. I'd be relegated to LFR, and that's that. However, in the interview with IH, he notes that there was a group that wanted a mode that currently wasn't being served by the modes they have in place now.

    One could infer that he was referring to 'casual' raiders and normal mode, as that would probably be the most logical inference. But, those Blizzard personnel people, they are sly with their language and they say things without really saying anything.
    Normal didn't really get much harder the average player skill just dropped. And no wonder when you can faceroll everything up to normal mode. And I am not just trying to be funny by using the word faceroll, I mean you can literally faceroll leveling, 5 man dungeons and LFR.

    You got your empathy in the last couple of years when they butchered this game for "the majority with the other perspective".
    Blizzard introduces LFR for people who don't have time but want to see the content. But what happened to your empathy?

    There is also a big difference in trying to play better or at your best and constantly complaining on a forum about how things are too hard for you while you are obviously not even trying while you are getting help from so many people (just look at all the guides on the internet). Why would anyone need to empathize with that? You are getting everything you need handed to you and you complain then someone says something about it and you tell him to empathize...

  19. #1119
    Quote Originally Posted by HeatherRae View Post
    ICC was very easy on Normal. Ulduar had varying levels of difficulty, but was an open-concept raid where you could choose where you wanted to go, and bosses could be skipped/ignored. ToC was similarly very, very easy on Normal.
    ICC easy on normal... Yeah like the first 4 bosses but the rest wasn't exactly faceroll. After the first 4 the difficulty level definitely started to rise pretty fast, PUGS would probably down the next 2 bosses at max (you get the occasional amazing PUG that gets farther but that was rare). You needed a guild to progress in that instance because if you cleared all of it minus the last boss then you were in for a big surprise. Lich King didn't take shit, he would throw you around like it was his god-given right. He'd show you who daddy was because that was just what the boss was, a minority finished Lich King before the nerfed the shit out that place.
    The Runaway. I love my new nickname. Is there a picture of me? Does it look good?

  20. #1120
    Quote Originally Posted by HeatherRae View Post
    ICC was very easy on Normal. Ulduar had varying levels of difficulty, but was an open-concept raid where you could choose where you wanted to go, and bosses could be skipped/ignored. ToC was similarly very, very easy on Normal.
    In what universe is this? You were raiding 10 man?

    LK normal was easy? The top 500 25m guild I was in who finished all hardmodes wouldn't really agree with your statement.

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