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  1. #21
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BergErr View Post
    PvE boost and PvP nerf, fine by me. I dont pvp anyway (except the foolish hordes that try to gank me).
    Losing the stun is sad though, was so handy to have.

    BB amoc, u wont be missed.
    Time to cleave those mobs, think I should break the million dps on aoe now (BM 4 life).
    BM will never beat SV at AoEing. BM would need perfect pet positioning and it still follows the 10 target AoE cap, where SV AoE does not.

  2. #22
    Aoe cap is 20 not 10, was changed in 5.2, and with blink strikes and the beast cleave buff it will bring BM very close to survival in terms of Aoe.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baracuda View Post
    As someone who doesn't play hunter I really believe they need to fix the second tier, EVERYONE takes silencing shot on PTR... Maybe give hunter a 30-40 sec CD base interrupt with a 1 sec cast time or something xD?
    The outrage would be tremendous. Silencing shot is *the only interrupt* we have access to, and we have to TALENT into it. Hunters, btw, are the only DPS class/spec to not have access to a baseline interrupt. Making it 40s would put it on par with Silence, the spriest interrupt, which is currently the "worst" interrupt in terms of CD - but is baseline, and instant, unlike the changes you want.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenhawk View Post
    Aoe cap is 20 not 10, was changed in 5.2, and with blink strikes and the beast cleave buff it will bring BM very close to survival in terms of Aoe.
    As a hunter you shouldn't even know what the aoe cap is. Because multi-shot doesn't obey the AoE cap.

    Prime example : H tortos.


    My other hunter buddy likes to seee big numbers so he multishots the bats a ton when there are a whole bunch of them. I believe we had 9 call bats which spawn like 10 bats each. So like after the third call bats the damage would be normalized if we had an aoe cap, but it's not.

    Close to the end of the fight, he spiked very very high.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=6055&e=6084

    That shows that his mulit shots were hitting for 20k and crtting for 43k in that period. Now if the damage was split and it was that far into the fight we can assume he multishotted 1-2 times. Which means he hit ~100 bats with 2 multishots. If that damage was being normalized multishot would've been hitting for ~100k when it wasn't above the aoe cap.

    We go to the second damage spike in the fight

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=5727&e=5809

    What probably happened is he multi-shotted the second set of bats in mid air which gave him the 7 then multishotted again which gave him the 17. Now you can see that the damage is lower than the damage with hundreds of bats being multishotted.

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  5. #25
    Field Marshal Sagain's Avatar
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    I'm still hoping for a raidwide DPS or mitigation cooldown but I suppose progress in the right direction is still progress. Perhaps next tier we'll have buffs before progression is finished.

  6. #26
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    BM will never beat SV at AoEing. BM would need perfect pet positioning and it still follows the 10 target AoE cap, where SV AoE does not.
    Mby, but im rolling BM on everything so it will just go easier.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    As a hunter you shouldn't even know what the aoe cap is. Because multi-shot doesn't obey the AoE cap.

    Prime example : H tortos.


    My other hunter buddy likes to seee big numbers so he multishots the bats a ton when there are a whole bunch of them. I believe we had 9 call bats which spawn like 10 bats each. So like after the third call bats the damage would be normalized if we had an aoe cap, but it's not.

    Close to the end of the fight, he spiked very very high.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=6055&e=6084

    That shows that his mulit shots were hitting for 20k and crtting for 43k in that period. Now if the damage was split and it was that far into the fight we can assume he multishotted 1-2 times. Which means he hit ~100 bats with 2 multishots. If that damage was being normalized multishot would've been hitting for ~100k when it wasn't above the aoe cap.

    We go to the second damage spike in the fight

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=5727&e=5809

    What probably happened is he multi-shotted the second set of bats in mid air which gave him the 7 then multishotted again which gave him the 17. Now you can see that the damage is lower than the damage with hundreds of bats being multishotted.
    I think Beast Cleave is affected by AoE cap, which was how I read the point.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by 3clipse View Post
    I think Beast Cleave is affected by AoE cap, which was how I read the point.
    Oh, my bad. Was just saying multi shot is unaffected by the aoe cap just for clarification.

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  9. #29
    I thought Multi-shot is affected by the AOE cap, but Improved Serpent Sting and Serpent Spread weren't.

    Edit: Until I looked at those logs Tehstool posted.
    Last edited by Jeremypwnz; 2013-05-16 at 08:35 AM.
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  10. #30
    I really don't think the cleave buff is going to bring BM even close to SV AoE. It's just going to bring BMs AoE from bad to possibly acceptable. I don't think most people realize how insane SV AoE really can be, as shown by those logs.

    Overall these changes still suck. The AP buff is nice but if the next tier is anything like ToT then it still won't matter. Enrages weren't really an issue this tier. It's all about those raid CDs that we have none of.

    The binding shot change is retarded. Now 100% of Hunters will take silencing shot instead of 98% with the 2% that run CMs taking Binding Shot.

    Getting rid of aMoC could be nice. I won't be running BM next tier regardless because I think it's the dumbest and clumsiest spec ever so it really just depends how well BS turns out for SV for me.

    I have no thoughts on the PvP CC changes because I don't care about PvP in this game.

    Still just waiting on that raid CD. Enh Shammys are getting nice buffs to their damage so if we still suck at bringing anything special to heroic progression next tier then it'll be them that gets to sit in for the agi mail soaks. Their utility destroys ours without question.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by mistahwilshire View Post
    I really don't think the cleave buff is going to bring BM even close to SV AoE. It's just going to bring BMs AoE from bad to possibly acceptable. I don't think most people realize how insane SV AoE really can be, as shown by those logs.

    Overall these changes still suck. The AP buff is nice but if the next tier is anything like ToT then it still won't matter. Enrages weren't really an issue this tier. It's all about those raid CDs that we have none of.

    The binding shot change is retarded. Now 100% of Hunters will take silencing shot instead of 98% with the 2% that run CMs taking Binding Shot.

    Getting rid of aMoC could be nice. I won't be running BM next tier regardless because I think it's the dumbest and clumsiest spec ever so it really just depends how well BS turns out for SV for me.

    I have no thoughts on the PvP CC changes because I don't care about PvP in this game.

    Still just waiting on that raid CD. Enh Shammys are getting nice buffs to their damage so if we still suck at bringing anything special to heroic progression next tier then it'll be them that gets to sit in for the agi mail soaks. Their utility destroys ours without question.
    AOE cap was increased to 20, as a heads up.

    Also BM AOE can be potent with the right pet/talent choices, but it requires about 3x the effort and micromanaging that Surv does. My hunter and her caterpillar/silkworm pet have done upwards of 450k peak dps on some of the larger pulls in Throne.

    And for the life of me I don't get the 'hunters have no utility' comments. Slowing traps, blanket silence/interrupts, stuns, healing debuffs, Misdirection (which is amazing for add fights, MD + Barrage on Horridon for example), the ability to cover every single buff in the game + several that only hunters have, Battle res, near-tank levels of damage reduction via talents, amazing mobility with 0 damage loss (something pretty much no other class can say), a cooldown for avoiding pretty much every kind of damage, Feign Death for a complete aggro drop or surviving a wipe and quickly ressing the raid (quicker recovery = more attempts on progression fights)... I could go on. So yeah.

    And was said above, the Beast Cleave increase isn't the only buff BM AOE is getting. Blink Strikes increases pet basic attack damage by 50%, and basic attacks proc Beast Cleave. So, its kind of a double dip buff.
    Last edited by Mirishka; 2013-05-16 at 12:51 PM.

  12. #32
    When people talk about Hunters lacking raid CDs and utility they're referring to things that other classes with better DPS don't already cover. In Heroic 25 man progression there is next to nothing a Hunter can bring to the table that someone else can't. We're talking about Pally BoP levels of desirability and power.

    It's not like I'm talking about a problem that doesn't exist either because many many Hunters sat out heroic progression last tier because of this combined with very very average DPS at best.
    Last edited by mistahwilshire; 2013-05-16 at 01:07 PM.

  13. #33
    Well they are giving use attack power buff which according to FD is around 6,7% dmg increase in my case (523ilvl hunter). I wonder how it will look with all the item upgrades available again cause we are one of the worst scaling class. Are we gonna move up a bit or just dont fall lower?

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by khalamo View Post
    Well they are giving use attack power buff which according to FD is around 6,7% dmg increase in my case (523ilvl hunter). I wonder how it will look with all the item upgrades available again cause we are one of the worst scaling class. Are we gonna move up a bit or just dont fall lower?
    We'll obviously move up a nice little bit but we still won't be even close to a Warlock or Mage of equal gear/skill.

  15. #35
    5.3 is taking too long

  16. #36
    Legendary! Tommo's Avatar
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    They are nerfing the wrong stuff, BM my favourite spec since I started playing my hunter god knows how long ago, has been fucking destroyed. You are no longer an unstoppable force that cannot be killed until your rage subsides, your now just a big red target that says "STUN ME so my CD can be wasted!".

    Im just done with them, ill continue playing and sighing at every patch since I dont feel like changing mains. But if they ever release a ranged class like demon hunters or whatever, were dead.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    They are nerfing the wrong stuff, BM my favourite spec since I started playing my hunter god knows how long ago, has been fucking destroyed. You are no longer an unstoppable force that cannot be killed until your rage subsides, your now just a big red target that says "STUN ME so my CD can be wasted!".

    Im just done with them, ill continue playing and sighing at every patch since I dont feel like changing mains. But if they ever release a ranged class like demon hunters or whatever, were dead.
    Um... no?

    The only thing they're nerfing is pet CC (which, combined with the hunter's CC, is pretty damn powerful) in PvP, PVE spells are getting cooldown reductions so they aren't affected.

    I wasn't the biggest fan of the change to Bestial Wrath either but let's face facts, being un-CCable, unstoppable, for 18 seconds was just too much. My main is a hunter (hence my many posts in the hunter forums) and even I agree with that. No other class has anything that compares to that. Its fun to be overpowered sure, at least until you come up against the class that is overpowered, but it inevitably gets nerfed. I'm surprised that it took Blizz 8 years to nerf BW.

    Otherwise? Buffs and nothing but. Straight AP buff (BM arguably benefits the most from an AP buff), huge Beast Cleave buff and an amazing change to Blink Strikes that buffs pet damage significantly and has the added perk of further buffing Beast Cleave. So, you might wanna relax. :P
    Last edited by Mirishka; 2013-05-16 at 04:07 PM.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Libertarian View Post
    5.3 is taking too long
    I would be very surprised if it isn't next reset.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Woobels View Post
    I would be very surprised if it isn't next reset.
    sadly I'd be very surprised if it is I'm guessing 2 weeks if not 3. We still haven't got the warning they promised us to be able to save VP, PTR isn't in a release state or taken down yet.

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  20. #40
    Brewmaster Caninese's Avatar
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    I don't use any of the mentioned pet families in PvP, and I'm MM, so I'm cool with it.

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