Northern Ireland Question / Irish Reunification

[Nakura Chambers]

Centuries ago the British conquered the island of Ireland and began to settle the territory. Though Britain nominally controlled all of Ireland, they only effectively settled it's northern territory, Ulster. With Ulster having been settled by Britons, it now had a protestant majority, whereas the rest of Ireland had a Catholic majority. In addition to religion, many in the north supported monarchism and British rule, as opposed to many in the south, who supported republicanism and independence from Britain.

In 1919 revolutionaries in Ireland declared their independence and fought a war against the British that lasted over two years. Eventually the British agreed to recognize Ireland as an independent country, however the six counties comprising Northern Ireland refused to join the new state. Though accepting the peace treaty, the newly established Irish Free State refused to recognize British sovereignty over Northern Ireland and claimed it as their own territory. Eventually the Irish Free State, which was a commonwealth realm (the British monarch was their head of state), was replaced with the Republic of Ireland. The Republic of Ireland relinquished claims to Northern Ireland, though they created provisions for Northern Ireland to join in the future.

Since the early days of the partition of Ireland, many republicans and Catholics in Northern Ireland were discontent. Though initially peaceful (for the most part) many took up arms to "kick the British out" in the 1960s. These rebel groups, the most prominent being the Irish Republican Army, started a civil war in Northern Ireland. In response to the Irish revolutionaries, many unionists took up arms against the IRA and other groups, claiming they were acting in "self-defense." The British government was officially neutral in the civil war, but some have accused them of secretly supporting the unionists. Fighting ravaged Northern Ireland 1998, though some sporadic fighting continues to this day.

Though the United Kingdom, including Northern Ireland, is a democratic state, some have accused the British of gerrymandering and of setting up a system that favors the unionists. In 1973 a referendum was held in Northern Ireland on whether or not they should secede from the United Kingdom, thus forming an independent country or joining the Republic of Ireland. The majority of the people voted in favor of remaining part of the United Kingdom, though some republican groups boycotted the referendum. In 1998 most hostilities came to an end with the Good Friday Agreement, which created a democratically elected Northern Ireland Assembly, where parties could settle their disagreements peacefully.

Today it appears that the majority of the people do wish to remain part of the United Kingdom, but a very large minority wish to join the Republic of Ireland, with a third group wishing for Northern Ireland to become an independent country. All of the major political parties in the Republic of Ireland support Irish reunification. In the United Kingdom, the Labour Party and Liberal Democrats support abandoning Northern Ireland and even refuse to participate in elections there. What do you believe should become of Northern Ireland?


Note: The poll isn't about whether or not a referendum should be held, the poll is only about what your personal thoughts are on the subject.

[Deleted]

Coming from Belfast myself, and all my family being from Ireland or the north - i'd support it staying a part of the U.K.

It's so much more attractive, and we retain our identity on a whole.

What's really happening is simply a faith war, being directed to the U.K. Thankfully when i was born in Belfast i was *made* a christian despite my family being protestants, it meant i was a neutral participant until we moved away (the troubles, and a bombing spree had just went off).

Now i just pity those in my birthplace, they still adhere to old practices to further there agenda. That being said, lots of progress has been made - but there is still a simmering discontent with some people there.

England hasn't been innocent though, and i won't forget it - but on a whole it's unjustified - and people are exploiting the situation...

TL;DR, N.Ire to stay in the U.K

[Deleted]

Galician, so i'm quite familiar with the topic even if it doesn't directly concern me.

At this point of history, i think the best option for N.Ireland would be to be its own country, while working on very strong ties with both UK and Ireland (best option would be a customs union with both countries while applying for EU membership, and other forms of joint governance with Ireland). But obtaining sovereignty to then surrender it to someone else sounds like famous last words.

Now that we are all in the EU, it really makes no sense to have these overlarge "national" states that actually contain several nationalities.
I support a Europe of the Regions

[Nakura Chambers]

Galician, so i'm quite familiar with the topic even if it doesn't directly concern me.

At this point of history, i think the best option for N.Ireland would be to be its own country, while working on very strong ties with both UK and Ireland (best option would be a customs union with both countries while applying for EU membership, and other forms of joint governance with Ireland). But obtaining sovereignty to then surrender it to someone else sounds like famous last words.

Now that we are all in the EU, it really makes no sense to have these overlarge "national" states that actually contain several nationalities.
I support a Europe of the Regions

Interesting, but I think we need to take into account just how unpopular the European Union is in Northern Ireland. All four of the major unionist parties are opposed to the EU. The parties being the Democratic Unionist Party, Traditional Unionist Voice, UK Independence Party and Ulster Unionist Voice.

[Deleted]

Let the people decide as whole as to where they want to go/stay.

Personally I hope the UK keeps N. Ireland for now. Its costing them a fortune and the Rep. of Ireland is so broke we are selling off the resources as fast as we can.

[Deleted]

Let northeners decide themselves by vote I'd say.

[Nakura Chambers]

Let northeners decide themselves by vote I'd say.

The problem is that the public is so divided on the issue. It's literally like 60% support Britain and 40% support joining Ireland. It's such a close percentage that either way, half of the country will be unhappy. The already tried holding a referendum, but the republican side knew they were going to lose, so they boycotted the election and continued fighting anyway.

[oblivionx]

I've been there, and I don't think a solution is imminent.

Both "sides" have their buildings painted with slogans and portraits of their "war" heroes, with a big wall in the middle of the city so they don't have to see each other. It's pretty morbid...

[Deleted]

Let the people decide as whole as to where they want to go/stay.

Personally I hope the UK keeps N. Ireland for now. Its costing them a fortune and the Rep. of Ireland is so broke we are selling off the resources as fast as we can.

Ireland isn't broke at all.

[Kalis]

I believe Ireland should be united under British rule.

[Deleted]

The problem is that the public is so divided on the issue. It's literally like 60% support Britain and 40% support joining Ireland. It's such a close percentage that either way, half of the country will be unhappy. The already tried holding a referendum, but the republican side knew they were going to lose, so they boycotted the election and continued fighting anyway.

Aye I know the situation, got quite a few friends and acquaintances from Cork, Limerick and Kilkenny so I get an earful every now and then about it. Personally I've never liked the idea of divided islands, or enclaves/exclaves, but as you said about the Ulster having so big of a support in the north, just uniting Ireland couldn't happen for a few generations.

I'd like to get a citizen vote on abolishing Corks accent, that's the real issue of the Emerald Isle.

[Deleted]

When people ask me if im Irish or British i just say im Northern Irish, i hold both an irish and a british passport, but would gladly hold a 'Northern Irish' Passport and throw the other 2 out!

Im a Catholic who lives right on the boarder and my hometown was bombed during the troubles! The G8 Summit is being held in my town in June so hopefully the world leaders can have an influence on our countries leaders and bring an end to this conflict even though you dont hear about bombings and shootings as much there is still huge conflicts among people! With a few Major instances happening every few years!

I would welcome whatever solution anyone comes up with that means peace.. but it will never happen, 2 very different cultures are mixed throughout N.I and it will always be like that..

[Deleted]

With Ulster having been settled by Englishmen

It was mainly Scotsmen actually. Hence the Ulster Scots dialect.

These rebel groups, the most prominent being the Irish Republican Army, started a civil war in Northern Ireland.

The IRA were terrorists, through and through. Some of their acts rival Islamic terrorists in their brutality, they targeted civilians indiscriminately, and were nothing more than a group of vicious thugs. Good riddance to them.

In the United Kingdom, the Labour Party and Liberal Democrats support abandoning Northern Ireland and even refuse to participate in elections there. What do you believe should become of Northern Ireland?

They'll remain with the Union for the time being, but I'm dubious the Union is going to last much longer, too many cracks, forming too quickly. I would suggest they might rejoin with Ireland, but last I heard, the RoI don't want them back for the most part.

[Deleted]

It was mainly Scotsmen actually. Hence the Ulster Scots dialect.



The IRA were terrorists, through and through. Some of their acts rival Islamic terrorists in their brutality, they targeted civilians indiscriminately, and were nothing more than a group of vicious thugs. Good riddance to them.



They'll remain with the Union for the time being, but I'm dubious the Union is going to last much longer, too many cracks, forming too quickly. I would suggest they might rejoin with Ireland, but last I heard, the RoI don't want them back for the most part.

Of course, if you ignore the bloody oppression the Irish had to go through for 500 years, the ira comes out as bloody terrorists. Thank god, anyone reading 1 or 2 books about it will understand how the issue came up to begin with.
Lets not forget the protestant paramilitary groups like the "shankill butchers" which would kidnap innocent man and women and torture them before killing them.
The situation wasn't as clear cut as you make it out to be. There is tons of material on how the events that subsequently led to the troubles developed.

Unfortunately the place is far from being at peace. The protest about the Union Jack flag for example, that lasted a month? Two? And at the end was only an excuse for kids to wreck the place, shows how little balance there is.

[Deleted]

if you ignore the bloody oppression the Irish had to go through for 500 years, the ira comes out as bloody terrorists.

Don't be a fucking stupid. Yes, the Irish suffered under British rule for many years, that doesn't make the IRA not become terrorists however. They were a bunch of stupid thugs shooting at civilians because they thought they could justify it. I'm perfectly aware of Ireland history, it doesn't excuse the IRA of their actions in the slightest; I will forever regard them as murdering thugs.

[Deleted]

Don't be a fucking stupid. Yes, the Irish suffered under British rule for many years, that doesn't make the IRA not become terrorists however. They were a bunch of stupid thugs shooting at civilians because they thought they could justify it. I'm perfectly aware of Ireland history, it doesn't excuse the IRA of their actions in the slightest; I will forever regard them as murdering thugs.

Post Irish independence the IRA were indeed an illegal body. However the IRA pre independence were more in line with general revolutionaries.

[Deleted]

Don't be a fucking stupid. Yes, the Irish suffered under British rule for many years, that doesn't make the IRA not become terrorists however. They were a bunch of stupid thugs shooting at civilians because they thought they could justify it. I'm perfectly aware of Ireland history, it doesn't excuse the IRA of their actions in the slightest; I will forever regard them as murdering thugs.

I see the whole Ireland segregation situation the same as Palestine. Everyone involved is far from innocent.

[Deleted]

Don't be a fucking stupid. Yes, the Irish suffered under British rule for many years, that doesn't make the IRA not become terrorists however. They were a bunch of stupid thugs shooting at civilians because they thought they could justify it. I'm perfectly aware of Ireland history, it doesn't excuse the IRA of their actions in the slightest; I will forever regard them as murdering thugs.

First, chill.

Second, no it doesn't justify the brutalities committed. But as they say, if you plant shit don't expect roses.
How do you think any other country would have reacted? People born under years of oppression how do you think they are going to behave?

[Deleted]

I see the whole Ireland segregation situation the same as Palestine. Everyone involved is far from innocent.

Oh for sure, the actions from the Brits such as Bloody Sunday were equally bad.

[oblivionx]

They have a "sight wall" in the middle of belfast between the two factions. By sight wall I mean a wall so they don't have to see each other...

I have some pictures from belfast of the taunts they paint on their buildings and homes with portraits of the "fallen". They really are some of the oddest things to see in a city I've ever seen, and I've seen a lot of cities.