1. #1

    Breaking Insanity for dots?

    On HowToPriest they say the spells priority is like this:
    http://howtopriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=3507

    #1 - DP with SOx3
    #2 - MB on CD, especially DI procs
    #3 - SW: D x2 below 20%
    #4 - MF:I while DPx3 is up
    #5 - SW:P / VT
    #6 - Halo / Cascade

    I'm wondering, as I see I'm about to cast my next MB to get 3 orbs, to cast DP to trigger MF:I, and I see my dots are about to die... do I wait to cast DP to cast dots, do I cast DP then do the dots, or just MB -> DP -> MF until it's empty, then redot?

  2. #2
    What I’ve been doing in this situation is:

    MB (3rd orb) > SW:P > VT > DP > full MF:I > MB

    Typically you’re only delaying the second MB by a second or so if that.

  3. #3
    It's more like this:

    1-DP(if three orbs)
    2-MB(DI Proc especially)
    3-SW: D(for the orb not the second use)
    4-MF:I(if 3 orb DP up)
    5-SW: D second use(if the internal for the orb hasn't been ticking down and you are using it back to back, sometimes when at the end of 6-DP on the target you can only get one more channel either way and will want to death twice before the last MF:I as long as you can start the channel before DP falls off after the second death)
    7-SW:P
    8-VT
    9-Level 90 talent
    10-Mind Flay

    assuming less than three orbs MB on CD death on CD or not at execute range and DP 3 orbs still up you want to clip MF:I same as regular flays finishing the channel to the last tick on it only when you actually have no DP still on the target while orb generators are still on CD and you don't have 3 more orbs(don't accidentally clip MF:I for mind flay or dots)

    edit:
    sorry didn't read the last line of the OP at first

    In that situation you'd dot first before DP after you get your third orb and then interrupt your MF:Is for mind blast procs or when it comes off CD no matter how little channel time you get
    Last edited by Vicarious; 2013-05-09 at 08:29 PM.

  4. #4
    I am Murloc! Volitar's Avatar
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    This is what I've been going by.

    3 Orb DP (With Lei Shen trinket up)
    SW: P (With Lei Shen trinket up)
    2 Orb DP (With Lei Shen trinket up)
    VT (With Lei Shen trinket up)
    Normal 3 Orb DP
    Mindblast
    SW: D (Only cast it once during MF:I channel)
    Insanity
    Normal SW: P
    Normal VT
    Normal Flay

  5. #5
    Refresh your dots before the mind blast will give you 3 orbs. But do that early enough that you're not delaying the mind blast. So it looks like this:
    SWP/VT > MB (3 orbs) > DP > MFI > MB once it comes back off CD. You should be able to extend MFI off the last < 1 second of DP to stretch it out so that it ends almost exactly when your MB is ready again.

    If you can't do the above for some reason, then you're best off delaying DP a little such that you can fit your next mind blast inside of DP but still have time left after it to catch one last MFI channel at the end of DP. You don't want to miss taking advantage of being able to channel MFI after DP has fallen. You'll need to delay DP a few seconds to do this. I recommend delaying it a lot (mainly just for ease of use and consistency), and hitting it right when MB has 1 gcd left on its CD (somewhere between 1.0-1.5 sec, depending on your haste). You'll do this:
    MB (3 orbs) > SWP/VT > MF until MB is almost ready > DP > MB > MFI until you can't MFI anymore.

    So, in other words, unless UVLS proc'd, don't break insanity for dots. You should make it so that they're not falling off during insanity.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Volitar View Post
    This is what I've been going by.

    3 Orb DP (With Lei Shen trinket up)
    SW: P (With Lei Shen trinket up)
    2 Orb DP (With Lei Shen trinket up)
    VT (With Lei Shen trinket up)
    Normal 3 Orb DP
    Mindblast
    SW: D (Only cast it once during MF:I channel)
    Insanity
    Normal SW: P
    Normal VT
    Normal Flay
    yeah true dots first with the unerring vision trinket up especially at the end of the duration

  7. #7
    The idea is to set yourself up for the longest uninterrupted MF:I you can possibly have without delaying any MB. This means looking ahead and planning when your dots will fall off. If you think your dots will fall off soon, and you have two orbs, then alarm bells should be ringing in your head. The moment of no return is not when you get three orbs, but the moment before MB comes of CD when you already have two orbs because the rotation from that point on is (or rather should be) set in stone i.e. if you have two orbs and MB just came off CD your next actions should be MB > 3-orb-DP > MF:I for the whole DP duration > MB and nothing else. This leaves no time to refresh dots, hence this must be done before the 3rd MB comes off CD.
    "I never met a miner who complained about the weather"

  8. #8
    this is what makes me question MF:I as a whole. I understand ToF is the go-to talent together with it but DI feels way more reliable on a single target fight, especially since we don't know how long the execute will be. on multi target fights with some movement I'm usually quick at going back to FDLC instead of MF:I and even opting out of ToF if there's not consistently adds spawning that have low health.

    bear in mind I just got back to playing shadow in 5.2 so if there's been any math done on this or just encounter specific advice for talent choices feel free to point it out. :-)

  9. #9
    Herald of the Titans Keosen's Avatar
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    I don't think there is a single normal boss on this tier that favors FCDL over MF:I
    Actually the only boss that i'm not using MF:I is Tortos.

  10. #10
    Any boss with excessive unpredictable movement and MF:I kinda sucks.
    "I never met a miner who complained about the weather"

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by stiglet View Post
    Any boss with excessive unpredictable movement and MF:I kinda sucks.
    Got Thunderstruck on you? Obvious response is to finish off your MF:I channel and tell your healers to keep you up through a 1 million hit.
    Last edited by NeverStop; 2013-05-13 at 03:26 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Keosen View Post
    I don't think there is a single normal boss on this tier that favors FCDL over MF:I
    Actually the only boss that i'm not using MF:I is Tortos.
    A lot of Council priest parses are using FDCL.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Cerbz View Post
    A lot of Council priest parses are using FDCL.
    A lot of healing parses on every fight that are all top 10 are using all different 90 talents on the same fight comparatively, doesn't make them better or worse. The difference in dps of pretty much any combo of talents you can pick will be less than 5k when used optimally. (I prefer DI with MF:I when there aren't streams of adds to keep 100% uptime on ToF, even if it makes me interrupt it sometimes it gives me more orbs therefore more chances at full well timed channels) FDCL isn't bad it just isn't what it once was and I've soured on it. Its never exceedingly good on any fight so I don't lose much if anything avoiding it.

  14. #14
    regardless of whether you pick SWI or FDCL on council for that extra theoretical 2k, your warlocks will still do 100k+ more so who cares?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by snaxattax View Post
    regardless of whether you pick SWI or FDCL on council for that extra theoretical 2k, your warlocks will still do 100k+ more so who cares?
    "There is one class that does more than every other class on this fight, so all other classes should be ignored"

    That's basically what you just said. Idiotic IMO, and doesn't help at all. Spriest vs Lock debate has been done to death already. Leave it.

    And FYI, there is a "clever use of game mechanics" currently available to locks on council with the Lei Shen trinket. Not really a fair comparison.
    "I never met a miner who complained about the weather"

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by stiglet View Post
    "There is one class that does more than every other class on this fight, so all other classes should be ignored"

    That's basically what you just said. Idiotic IMO, and doesn't help at all. Spriest vs Lock debate has been done to death already. Leave it.

    And FYI, there is a "clever use of game mechanics" currently available to locks on council with the Lei Shen trinket. Not really a fair comparison.
    It's not really a clever use of game mechanics in that it's not abusing anything (for Demo at least). It's just using a glyph to keep 100% crit dooms up on all the targets as much as possible for more imps.

    Now, if you're talking about Affliction and soul swap exhaling dots with the stats they had when consumed, and at full duration, then that's probably something not intended but still there.

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