Mixed feelings on green fire boss.

[Zantos]

Well, I just got my green fire at 481ilevel and I am getting mixed feelings. I feel the fight was very hard and had no room for error. I feel accomplished for doing it. However, I am hearing a lot of people saying the final fight was really easy. So I don't know what to think. How easy or hard was this guy for others and at what ilevel did you kill him?

[Deleted]

Personally i find the fight fun as hell.
It doesn't really make any space for errors, no matter what item level you got.
I killed it myself at the ilevel of 509, and it did take me approximately an hour to get it all right, if not a little more.
And my guess would be that most of those people who calls it "Really easy" watched the guides on the internet and so on, and didn't figure it out by themselves. Atleast that'd be my expectation.

[Zantos]

I watched the guide, but you still gotta get the timing down and get everything correct. The guides helped me know what to do but still had to work on the timing while watching everything on my own

[Deleted]

Nothing wrong in watching the guides either, but it sortof makes it easy if you get me? Or well, it makes it easier.
And yeah, it's all about timing. No matter your itemlevel i doubt you can afford to screw up. That'd be my guess atleast.

[Deleted]

It's a Gear thing. If you vastly outgeared him and are already pretty good at the whole "get ready for that next part of the pattern" and positioning, he is easy. Did him in ~35 attempts with first fresh 90 dungeon gear and the kill was in mostly heroic gear and 3 items from LFR. Some people did him with 480 ilvl.

Hell one guy did him with one arm.

[Biomega]

Everything is "really easy" once you've done it successfully and know all the tricks. Did any of those people kill it in their first few tries? Doubtful. Heck, it's the same story you always hear, be it this boss or a heroic raid - you wipe 100 times, but next week you one-shot it and suddenly it's THE EASIEST FIGHT IN THE WORLD LIKE SRSLYY OMGAAAWD.

It's the gates of Moria all over again.

[Zantos]

Everything is "really easy" once you've done it successfully and know all the tricks. Did any of those people kill it in their first few tries? Doubtful. Heck, it's the same story you always hear, be it this boss or a heroic raid - you wipe 100 times, but next week you one-shot it and suddenly it's THE EASIEST FIGHT IN THE WORLD LIKE SRSLYY OMGAAAWD.

It's the gates of Moria all over again.

Thats what my guild does. Kill a boss once, declare it easy and now on farm.

[Solial]

I leveled a lock just to do this quest, I did it with an ilvl of 464. No potion to remove the curse, I beat the curse timer by about 3 seconds, and it wasn't applied on me until after the first wave of imps spawned; I probably had about 8 and a 1/2 minutes?. My strat to beat the enrage timer was not killing the imps, all I did to them was aoe immolate, drop a RoF and spammed chaos bolts onto the boss. If I was about to die before the pit lord's heal was up I would use ember taps, considering you have unlimited embers with 60 mobs out it's almost spamable.

The fel hunters didn't seem to be an issue, just poped cooldowns on them, havoc chaos bolt, shadow fury. I used an infernal on the second wave for the extra stun. Once the boss was at 20% hp and I had the 3rd wave of imps out my rotation was literally RoF, Shadowburn 2-3 times, ember tap a couple times, new RoF.

I think it took me about 80 minutes to get him, and I did watch videos.

Edit for the poster above me about the fight being easy, I watched a video and after my 4th attempt I was only wiping to enrage.

[Biomega]

I don't doubt that some players will defeat it within only a couple of tries, if they know what to do. It is, after all, a matter of execution - skilled people can master this quickly and there is some very skilled people indeed.

But even if you play like a world first raider on steroids, it doesn't make the fight objectively "easy". Just because a trained, experienced surgeon can perform heart surgery quickly and without error doesn't make heart surgery EASY, either.

[Deleted]

Most of the fight really comes down to aggro dumping on the pitlord or LoSing chaos bolts, while maintaining a good position. Aggro dump is by far the most effective way to do it though, as you can maintain DPS on him.

[ComputerNerd]

The problem being several mechanics that have been vastly underutilised prior to that fight.
Is it really surprising players feel the need to resort to some guide because we simply do not have the experience of using those skills.
It is a nice opportunity to use them, but is it really a case of too much use way too late.

[Biomega]

What are you referring to exactly, ComputerNerd? The only spell in the final fight I have rarely (if ever) used before it has been Enslave Demon. Everything else is fairly standard Warlock repertoire, no? Portals, Banish, AoE and cleave... really the only new thing is controlling the pet properly and that's it. Since that pet is pretty special and not available outside of the scenario, I'm not sure that the you say those mechanics were "vastly underutilized prior to that fight" - they weren't even AVAILABLE.

Unless of course you're referring the the stuff you need to do in the course of the scenario itself, before the actual boss fight. It's true, Eye of Kilrogg is not exactly a timeless classic... but as so often, if you find yourself in a weird situation like the one you are faced with before the Reliquary, you just click through your spellbook and try everything. Not exactly a concept that's revolutionary for RPG puzzle solving.

[ComputerNerd]

Two specific skills which see little use otherwise are valid points I think.
If you have to "click through your spellbook and try everything", then surely is that not a sign that something is wrong.
Far more experienced warlocks than myself have been completely oblivious to using the eye of killrog with the glyph.

If there are parts of your toolkit that can realistically see no use before the level cap, and even aside from a single fight are not likely to see use at the cap then I feel there are missed opportunities.

Class quests are an opportunity to teach their use, but should not be the only place they can really shine.

[Nomial17]

i just recently got my green fire as well. I even made a post about a week ago detailing how hard i felt the fight was. Regardless of Ilvl, the fight is really just mechanics, and not something you can go in and do a few attempts in and get frustrated and leave. Eventually i decided to just grit my teeth and get it done. And when you finally get the kill, it feels so easy since you had to have executed the tactics perfectly. It's not an easy fight, its incredibly frustrating given the amount of things that can go wrong, but the sense of accomplishment from doing it in the same patch it was released, is just immense. Typically id say that the Devs shouldn't waste time on these kind of things, but after finally completing the fight, its one of the best learning experiences ive ever had in this game.

---------- Post added 2013-05-15 at 10:25 PM ----------

What are you referring to exactly, ComputerNerd? The only spell in the final fight I have rarely (if ever) used before it has been Enslave Demon. Everything else is fairly standard Warlock repertoire, no? Portals, Banish, AoE and cleave... really the only new thing is controlling the pet properly and that's it. Since that pet is pretty special and not available outside of the scenario, I'm not sure that the you say those mechanics were "vastly underutilized prior to that fight" - they weren't even AVAILABLE.

Unless of course you're referring the the stuff you need to do in the course of the scenario itself, before the actual boss fight. It's true, Eye of Kilrogg is not exactly a timeless classic... but as so often, if you find yourself in a weird situation like the one you are faced with before the Reliquary, you just click through your spellbook and try everything. Not exactly a concept that's revolutionary for RPG puzzle solving.

Idk, it's not to often I have to utilize my pets abilities to keep threat, heal me, dispel me, annihilate imps, or use my portals to drop threat and avoid one specific ability. So...theres that.

The fight really does utilize a lot of things with aren't standard warlock raiding. Nothing really prepares you for the fight but the fight itself.

[Lysakers]

Well that was one of the true great parts about the fight for me. Forcing me to pull out "all" spells from the spell books and use them wisely and at correct times.

If they made the boss just stand still and nuke, it would be just as eventful as killing one of the rares in Pandaria. And that would not feel great at the end.

[Crispin]

It's "easy" because it's so predictable, there's only 1 random event, which is if you ignore removing your debuffs, and end up with an imp/backfire/blackhole situation, but it's easy to ignore it anyhow.

It's really just a matter of repetitions, ANYONE can do it, it's really just a matter of how many tries you need to get it right, sure your ilvl plays a role, but you can reset the "enrage" with a potion, making ilvl matter alot less.


It is an enjoyable fight, and its also a nice touch that ilvl doesnt have to be the solution to it (like some rank 8 brawler fights are)

[Biomega]

But again, a set of specific actions, even rigid ones, does not necessarily make a fight EASY, just straightforward. It is still quite unforgiving; one mistake often means the end.

To expand on my earlier analogy, it's like saying playing music is "easy" - but there is a difference between Chopsticks and Chopin, even though both essentially just follow set, unchanging instructions.

[Teye]

It took me like 10-15 pulls, whereas the Nexus boss for the Firelands Legendary took me over 25 pulls. My gear was about the same relative to the content (Bunch of heroic shit from the previous tier and a bit of current tier upgrades mixed in).

I seriously think people over estimate the difficulty of Kanrethad just because he's a long long fight if you're not extremely over geared. The Nexus boss (Whose name I can't remember for the life of me) was a challenge because it was very obviously created without Warlock feelings at heart. Boomkins can heal, Shadow can heal and dispel, Mages could spell steal the HoT from the boss, Shamans could purge and heal... We couldn't heal back then. It was literally go Affliction, spec for all the healing pvp talents and Life Drain spam. On top of that, we had to use the Fel Hunter who couldn't melee the boss because we needed his Purge and interrupt. Every other class had to deal with 1-2 sets of adds but because we had to spam life drain we did so little damage that we had 3 or 4 waves of adds.

Its a different kind of difficult. Kanrethad just requires a lot of focus and a proper understanding of mechanics (simple stuff for a Heroic raider, but hard as hell for a casual), but the Nexus boss required you to play Affliction (I'd been Demonology since ICC at that point) and required you to kite adds, spam life drain to stay alive, Mortal Coil on CD and save your one and only Healthstone for the perfect moment so you wouldn't die. It was like trying to plan an Arena match at 2300.

The best thing I can compare Kanrethad to was tanking Heroic Spine (Bloods, not the easy as fuck Amalg part). Anyone who did it will understand.

[Biruta]

Most of the fight really comes down to aggro dumping on the pitlord or LoSing chaos bolts, while maintaining a good position. Aggro dump is by far the most effective way to do it though, as you can maintain DPS on him.

If u do not make mistakes in the fight, there will be no boss chaos bolts because the agro will never be on you.
I agree, Aggro dump + effective dps on boss is by far the most effective way to do it.
I finished him with 487 IL gear and later with full malevolence pvp gear to help a friend.
I see some people trying to pass information that the fight is trivial, but I disagree. The fight has no windows to mistakes, it's not a "faceroll" fight, it's not for everyone, only for those who know the warlock class and play with it.
Even today, I get offers in gold to kill the boss to other players (I refuse all). This proves that the fight is not for everyone, but for those who play well as warlock.

[ComputerNerd]

Well that was one of the true great parts about the fight for me. Forcing me to pull out "all" spells from the spell books and use them wisely and at correct times.

If they made the boss just stand still and nuke, it would be just as eventful as killing one of the rares in Pandaria. And that would not feel great at the end.

Not disagreeing with the range of skills used, just it being wrong that this is the first time some players will have used them.
And I really wonder when again players will have a reason to do so again.