Page 9 of 11 FirstFirst ...
7
8
9
10
11
LastLast
  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Xuk View Post
    Athlete = Gamer
    Basic Equipment = Gaming Rig + game

    Bad Comparison
    Personally I don't think so. The difference between computers is far greater than the difference between basic equipment in sports. I know Nike, Reebok and others like claim their equipment is the best, but Lebron is still Lebron no matter what brand of shoes he wears. Games can meet the minimum specs but run like sh!t, meaning the machine a person plays on drastically effects game play.

    Professional gaming is no wierder than Professional anything else, if people will spectate then advertisers will advertise and money will get made.
    100% agree, I said as much. If someone's willing to sponsor and pay a someone to be a professional anything, all the power to them.

    Another bad comparison. If your giving Messi the most basic equipment and a location to play he can still play...So you'd have to do the same with the Gamer, give him a comp with the min spec to run his game of choice.
    See above, I don't think so because I've played games on bad rigs that are at the minimum spec and the game is different. Imagine being at the arena and despite having your graphics set at the lowest setting any particle effects drops your frame rate down to less 10. Or the draw distance is so low that you can't see other players yet they can see you. It's effectively like having different rules for different players at that point.

    Also, when I give Messi horrible shoes, he's at a slight disadvantage (if that), but both teams are using the same ball and are playing on the same pitch. This is not the case where one player is using a crap computer that struggles to redraw at a decent rate and someone else is using a better computer. The player with the better computer has a huge, maybe even astronomical advantage.

    But as I said, my reasons are completely arbitrary.
    Last edited by Siddown; 2013-05-20 at 12:55 PM.

  2. #162
    Herald of the Titans Draknalor186's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    2,503
    if u are doing arena for gear, u are doing it wrong

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Draknalor186 View Post
    if u are doing arena for gear, u are doing it wrong
    Very insightful. The discussion, however, is based on a thought that some of us think Blizz is the one "doing it wrong" by not having any sort of substantial reward to pushing ratings in arenas.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by mmowin View Post
    So my question is whats the point in pushing high ratings anymore since you get absolutely NO reward for it other than just too play?
    Does anyone PvP for the fun of it anymore? You do a job for a reward, you play a game for the fun.
    WoW PvP; Where DPS are healers, tanks are DPS, and healers are tanks!

    RETH RETH RETH!

  5. #165
    The people who are bad at a sport should obviously only be allowed to use crappy equipment. After all, what is the point of sports if not to be allowed to use better equipment?

    It is the same in chess. If a bad player is up against a Grand Master, obviously the bad player should start with a few pieces off the bord. Else it would be totally unfair to the Grand Master who had to work up to reach a high rating.

  6. #166
    I PvP purely for fun.
    By that I even mean the climb from quest greenies to full tyrannical.
    You need a point in which gear does not progress, imagine infinite upgrades...
    I love imbalances, every pvp game has them, every pvp game needs them. I agree that some imbalances are a bit too much sometimes but thats pretty much extremely rare(and mostly due to gear scaling).

    Community involvment -> Ranged has advantages over melee -> Melee gets gap closers -> Melee gets out of control -> Ranged get more CC -> Melee gets counter CC...
    People are always whining about everything and that leads to more imbalances than you could realise.
    The changes in favor of a halt in PvP gear progression is by far the best choice made in months.
    If you are a cry baby who needs to be pampered because you cannot have fun with just the PvP aspect, quit the game..

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by inferior2 View Post
    The people who are bad at a sport should obviously only be allowed to use crappy equipment. After all, what is the point of sports if not to be allowed to use better equipment?

    It is the same in chess. If a bad player is up against a Grand Master, obviously the bad player should start with a few pieces off the bord. Else it would be totally unfair to the Grand Master who had to work up to reach a high rating.
    The people who are good at sports actually train in top notch facilities with the best physios to guide them. The people who are not good at sports train in far worse facilities.

    Chess is a completely different game than WoW. WoW has always been unfair, about progression and reward.
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    The problem is warriors are not easy to kill like we were in cata and people are mad at that
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    Brian may answer differently, but I would say mages are hard to counter for average players but easy for great players.

  8. #168
    Imagine if LFR, or even heroic raiding didn't award any gear/upgrades... what would a good 70% of the WoW playing population say about that? They would quit because everyone expects to be rewarded for accomplishing things. Otherwise there would be no reason to do it, unless you say you feel great about killing computer generated mobs because.... nevermind. It's not about "pvp for the fun you idiots," it's about having a challenging goal, reaching it, and getting something for your time, effort, and accomplishment. If I wanted to just kill people and feel good I'd go play more call of duty (which may still give more rewards than the current WoW pvp system).

    And as far as the "everyone should be on a level playing field" goes, I really can't agree with that either. I know alts are great fun and all, but there shouldn't be a system that is so easy to gear up an alt that in a week you can have full, fairly viable pvp gear... and then you ride out week by week doing 10 arena matches and getting the best pvp in the game with no requirement whatsoever. And now with the conquest catchup system you can pretty much have half of the best pvp gear in the game in a week.


    Allofmywhat.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Kreeshak View Post
    Even on counter strike - if you won the first round you had more money to buy better weapons than your enemies. Even counter strike HAD a minimal sense of progression and ahievement and reward.
    That was not a good example... how is that progression? Those mechanics were between rounds... not matches...
    Some games benefit loosers (giving chance of map choice, start defending, etc) others winners (+gold, etc) but between rounds, not matches... It has nothing to do with the progression...

    You keep nothing after the match between 2 teams have ended...
    In competitive games you fight for beating others and going up in a ladder... not by logging and playing 10 games a week!

    In any case PVP gear was never progression, is just something you have to get before you can get competitive... just a hassle that you need to farm before playing...
    Last edited by elderamy; 2013-05-20 at 04:09 PM.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Kreeshak View Post
    Chess is a completely different game than WoW. WoW has always been unfair, about progression and reward.
    And the unfairness is one of the things holding the game back as far as pvp goes. Not all of it can be eliminated, but there certainly are elements that can be, and gear is one of them.
    Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion
    Plox. I got your plox right fucking here. - Animalhouse
    I still prefer seeing Thrall rather than blood in my urine, that doesnt make him a good character. - Verdugo

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    And the unfairness is one of the things holding the game back as far as pvp goes. Not all of it can be eliminated, but there certainly are elements that can be, and gear is one of them.

    Gear "unfairness" is nothing more than one person spending more time and effort making their character better than someone else. It has nothing to do with "fairness". Class balance, however, certainly does. But that's not what we're talking about.

    The argument "Give everyone the same gear to make pvp balanced" is about the most flawed thing I've seen yet in attempts to balance pvp in the game. Horrible, ultra-casual player argument. If you want something like that go play guildwars or one of the many other failed attempts at dethroning WoW. They failed for a reason.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Chestbrah View Post
    Gear "unfairness" is nothing more than one person spending more time and effort making their character better than someone else. It has nothing to do with "fairness". Class balance, however, certainly does. But that's not what we're talking about.

    The argument "Give everyone the same gear to make pvp balanced" is about the most flawed thing I've seen yet in attempts to balance pvp in the game. Horrible, ultra-casual player argument. If you want something like that go play guildwars or one of the many other failed attempts at dethroning WoW. They failed for a reason.
    You are looking in the wrong direction ... look at MOBA games. LoL alone has 3x-4x the players WoW has. For new generation of players this grind or fight an unfair fight mechanic must sound ridiculous. To me it certainly does. PvP should be about skill, overused phrase but so true. Class inbalance is inevitable, intentional gear inbalance is retarded.

    My part in this story has been decided. And I will play it well.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Repefe View Post
    You are looking in the wrong direction ... look at MOBA games. LoL alone has 3x-4x the players WoW has. For new generation of players this grind or fight an unfair fight mechanic must sound ridiculous. To me it certainly does. PvP should be about skill, overused phrase but so true. Class inbalance is inevitable, intentional gear inbalance is retarded.
    And this is how the argument that all gear should be the same and easily accessible fails. You twist character progression and gearing from a standard RPG perspective and present it as an "intentional gear imbalance." This is garbage. It's not an intentional gear imbalance. It's how WoW's gear progression has always been. If WoW was like LoL and I could jump into the game, have a max level character ready to go, fully geared, I wouldn't play it. That's not what WoW has been about over the past 8 years. It's been a solid blend of easy learning curve, somewhat difficult to master, that required 1. Leveling to the cap, which was a big part of the game now reduced by BOA's and XP decreases (which isn't a bad thing now that the cap is 90), 2. Gearing through entry level PvP zones (BG's) and entry level "raiding" zones (heroic 5 mans, 10 mans, etc.), and finally you work your way up to being geared enough for arenas, 25-40 man raids, and all of the end game content.

    If there is no gear progression and everyone should be exactly the same, you instantly jump over a good portion of endgame content, and make the rest even EASIER (PvE used to be quite challenging from many different aspects (most raids requiring full guild runs, tactical class usage, gearing your guild, etc.). PvE now is a completely different game, and really went down the shitter imo). Getting rid of any end game journey of progression cuts out a good portion of what the game really is (or was, I guess).

    If you want this sort of junk go play on the PTR and leave the rest of us who still want some worthwhile goals in the game to remain.

  14. #174
    Personally I like gearing myself up in pvp. It's nice to see and experience my character get stronger and stronger while I get gear that I worked for.

    Im happy with the way it is. It would be sad if gear did not matter anymore.

    Btw, would be cool for more rewards to those who actually want to perform well in pvp and not just the selected few that gets TOP TOP rank.

    I also believe that most people like the gearing up part. If most people hated it, they would mass up in games like GW2. They really dont.

    Gearing up is a important part of a MMO. You get rewarded for what you do. Cosmetic rewards is not enough, not when its the only thing to get.
    Last edited by CrusaderNerò87; 2013-05-20 at 05:58 PM. Reason: Adding something
    Follow me on twitter @crusadernero
    Nero - Human Retribution Paladin on Burning Blade EU.

  15. #175
    Mechagnome lordzed83's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    UK Nottingham
    Posts
    567
    CrusaderNerò87 cant see anything in pvp for me as warrior now.
    I think i will go back to PVE ....
    Geme smtn 2 kielllllll.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Chestbrah View Post
    And this is how the argument that all gear should be the same and easily accessible fails. You twist character progression and gearing from a standard RPG perspective and present it as an "intentional gear imbalance." This is garbage. It's not an intentional gear imbalance. It's how WoW's gear progression has always been. If WoW was like LoL and I could jump into the game, have a max level character ready to go, fully geared, I wouldn't play it. That's not what WoW has been about over the past 8 years. It's been a solid blend of easy learning curve, somewhat difficult to master, that required 1. Leveling to the cap, which was a big part of the game now reduced by BOA's and XP decreases (which isn't a bad thing now that the cap is 90), 2. Gearing through entry level PvP zones (BG's) and entry level "raiding" zones (heroic 5 mans, 10 mans, etc.), and finally you work your way up to being geared enough for arenas, 25-40 man raids, and all of the end game content.

    If there is no gear progression and everyone should be exactly the same, you instantly jump over a good portion of endgame content, and make the rest even EASIER (PvE used to be quite challenging from many different aspects (most raids requiring full guild runs, tactical class usage, gearing your guild, etc.). PvE now is a completely different game, and really went down the shitter imo). Getting rid of any end game journey of progression cuts out a good portion of what the game really is (or was, I guess).

    If you want this sort of junk go play on the PTR and leave the rest of us who still want some worthwhile goals in the game to remain.
    Problem with keeping everything old school is that the playerbase evolves ... what was acceptable 5 years ago nowdays often fails in light of new standards. Gearing up in PvP is one of those things. And there is nothing wrong if you like it the old way. But if you look at how many players prefere gearing up in PvP vs how many players appreciate PvP where it's just about skill and class you play; the 2nd group is massively bigger. And it's likely that the difference will grow further with fewer and fewer players appreciating having to "serve your time" till you can become competitive.

    So the shift from steep gear progression to something much more subtile in WoW is only logical imho.

    My part in this story has been decided. And I will play it well.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by lordzed83 View Post
    CrusaderNerò87 cant see anything in pvp for me as warrior now.
    I think i will go back to PVE ....
    What do you mean by that? Your class is not the FOTM? I got friends that play warriors in pvp and they do fine.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-20 at 06:23 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Repefe View Post
    Problem with keeping everything old school is that the playerbase evolves ... what was acceptable 5 years ago nowdays often fails in light of new standards. Gearing up in PvP is one of those things. And there is nothing wrong if you like it the old way. But if you look at how many players prefere gearing up in PvP vs how many players appreciate PvP where it's just about skill and class you play; the 2nd group is massively bigger. And it's likely that the difference will grow further with fewer and fewer players appreciating having to "serve your time" till you can become competitive.

    So the shift from steep gear progression to something much more subtile in WoW is only logical imho.

    Im sure if wow made it so gear did not matter at all, fewer people would do pvp and queues would be longer.
    Follow me on twitter @crusadernero
    Nero - Human Retribution Paladin on Burning Blade EU.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Repefe View Post
    Problem with keeping everything old school is that the playerbase evolves ... what was acceptable 5 years ago nowdays often fails in light of new standards. Gearing up in PvP is one of those things. And there is nothing wrong if you like it the old way. But if you look at how many players prefere gearing up in PvP vs how many players appreciate PvP where it's just about skill and class you play; the 2nd group is massively bigger. And it's likely that the difference will grow further with fewer and fewer players appreciating having to "serve your time" till you can become competitive.

    So the shift from steep gear progression to something much more subtile in WoW is only logical imho.

    While I can understand this shift, I am still confused as to how having gear progression completely removes the skill and class component to PvP. In my opinion it doesn't remove it at all, it just creates a gearing reward aspect so you can't just ding 90, have full gear, and the point of the game is no longer to better your character but to just "play." Gets boring fast from what I've seen with other games.

  19. #179
    Herald of the Titans DiscoGhost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Behind the Pillar
    Posts
    2,648
    titles, enchants, and bragging rights? cool part is ill have time to play my alts and get better at them also.
    You can tune a piano, but you can't tuna fish.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoGhost View Post
    titles, enchants, and bragging rights? cool part is ill have time to play my alts and get better at them also.
    Indeed characters become rather generic and disposable at that point.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •