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  1. #1
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    Darkspear Rebellion Items, April 16 Hotfixes, RNG and Loot System, Blue Tweets, Comic

    Ray of Frost Also to Receive Buff, Quality Over Quantity, Blue Posts, Fan Creation of the Week: The Art of Crimson-Nemesis

    Patch 5.3 - Darkspear Rebellion Quartermaster
    Ravika, the Darkspear Rebellion Quartermaster sells several useful and novelty items.

    The epic Latent Kor'kron pieces cost 200 of the Barrens resources, 100 of one type and 100 of another. These are also dropped by the Kor'kron NPCs you are killing in the Barrens for the Battlefield: Barrens weekly quest, with roughly a 1% drop rate. They can be combined with a Radical Mojo from the weekly quest to create a piece of item level 476 spec appropriate armor.

    The Raptorhide Boxing Gloves cost one Radical Mojo and grant access to a new Brawler's Guild boss. Gahz'rooki's Summoning Stone also costs one Radical Mojo.

    Griftah's Authentic Troll Shoes, Bom'bay's Color-Seein' Sauce, Whole-Body Shrinka', and Sen'jin Spirit Drum all cost 500 of one of the Barrens resources.

    The Darkspear Battle Standard and Rainstick cost only 10 of the Barrens resources.



    Level Type Slot Name
    11Companion Pets Gahz'rooki's Summoning Stone
    1Other Whole-Body Shrinka'
    1Other Bom'bay's Color-Seein' Sauce
    1Other Sen'jin Spirit Drum
    90Quest Raptorhide Boxing Gloves
    90None Latent Kor'kron Chestpiece
    90None Latent Kor'kron Boots
    90None Latent Kor'kron Gloves
    90None Latent Kor'kron Helm
    90None Latent Kor'kron Leggings
    90None Latent Kor'kron Spaulders
    90None Latent Kor'kron Belt
    1CosmeticFeet Griftah's Authentic Troll Shoes
    1Consumable Xan'tish's Flute
    1Consumable Darkspear Battle Standard
    1Consumable Rainstick


    Patch 5.2 Hotfixes: April 16
    Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker)
    Classes

    Quests
    • Secrets of the First Empire: Fixed an issue where an excessive amount of Trillium Bars could be removed while completing the quest.
    • Securing A Future: Lady Jaina Proudmoore should reappear properly if the player logs out while completing the quest.

    Creatures
    • Maturing Raptor should spawn more frequently now.
    • Trained Compy should spawn more frequently now.

    Raids, Dungeons, and Scenarios
    • Throne of Thunder
      • Durumu the Forgotten
        • Durumu will now have a longer delay before resuming his attacks while the maze of Eye Sores despawn.
      • Iron Qon
        • During the final phase of the encounter, Iron Qon's Quilen champions should no longer try to reposition themselves in 10-player and 25-player Heroic difficulty.
        • Reduced the health of Ice Tomb.
      • Ji-Kun
        • Fixed an issue where players with Daedalian Wings may incorrectly receive the Lesson of Icarus debuff while flying between some of the upper nests.
      • Primordius
        • Fixed an issue that could cause Fully Mutated players to deal excessive damage to Living Fluids or Viscous Horrors that are under the effects of a Warlock's Immolate.
        • Reduced the health of Primordius by 11% in 10-player and 25-player Heroic difficulty.
        • Reduced the health of Viscous Horrors by 15% in 10-player and 25-player Heroic difficulty.
      • Tortos
        • Fixed an issue where certain situations could cause Whirl Turtles to travel more slowly than intended when kicked.
      • Twin Consorts
        • Reduced the health of Lu'lin and Suen by 10% in Raid Finder difficulty.

    Items

    RNG and Loot Systems
    Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
    Why not have something similar for PvE? Why not? I know there are valor and justice points but they don't cover everything. Weapons would be a good example.
    Just my opinion, since I feel this is an interesting topic to talk about...
    One of the aspects that makes raiding (and PVE) so exciting is the fact you don't know what will drop and when. It's not the first time I find myself in a position where I'm chasing a particular drop and it just keeps evading me *forever*. It is, indeed, rather frustrating when you consider it from the perspective of the person that wants to finally get that new shield or bracers or whichever.

    On the other hand, though, and this is where I think it'd make PVE less attractive is that, if you can plan for certain which upgrades you'll be getting, and when, then, there might not be enough reason to progress past certain bosses. Say, your guild has a hell of a time trying to kill Megaera. Under such a system, you'd still be rewarded with a Tier 15 helm token after some time, despite that one dropping only from the Twin Consorts. And therefore, losing part of the incentive to keep pushing your raid progress to that boss as well as getting rewarded just for showing up on the instance and doing some progress.

    Also, the Valor Point items do ensure you'll be able to get items within a reasonable timeframe, of course, you might argue you'd like to get gear faster, but the fact is that you can control to some extent when you'll get something.

    Putting those things into perspective, sure, weapons may feel harder to attain since you can't get them through Valor Points, but, if you could carefully plan item by item when and how you'll get each upgrade, wouldn't that remove that excitement of finally getting the item you've been chasing for so long?

    please explain where the excitement is of going through raid after raid & the item (weapon in this case), just never drops? oh look, another raid & yet again nothing drops...i can hardly contain myself until next week when i get yet another chance to try my luck. oh the excitement of it all. put in that context, would you really think its enjoyable to go through yet another LFR only to find it doesnt drop again?
    Now talking about weapons... how often has it really occurred to any of you that you've never had a weapon drop for an entire tier? Personally I've never been in that position. Have I gotten my weapon late in a tier? Yes. Have I gotten it soon after a tier had launched? Yes. That's RNG. I'd wager if most people could plan their upgrades, weapons might be on the number one spot (depending on the class, of course).

    But above all that, the underlying question isn't just convenience, but rather it branches into two things:

    -Why do we want to get rid of RNG? Because we can't control drops? Why is that negative if you're having fun playing the game? If someone out there wants to get all the items as soon as possible so he/she can stop playing the game as soon as possible, then maybe the proper question should be... are you having fun in WoW? Because the moment we start thinking on the quickest way to get everything done and then not come back until a new patch has been released might be a sign of needing some time to disconnect from the game.

    -Once you control your drops, what's next? removing RNG from quests? from things like which artifact you'll get next on Archaeology or which jewel pattern you'll learn on that next research?

    RNG does have a positive aspect for the game. Sure, it makes it unconvenient when we're trying to control everything, but I believe it ultimately falls back to the "having fun" aspect of all this. Would you have fun in a game where you can control everything? For an extended period of time?

    No RNG there, but hey, I guess there's a reason companies pay you a pre-determined sum of money each month rather than by handing you an random item you may or may not find use for. I like my job a lot and having a random reward system wouldn't make it more fun.
    But this is a game, not a job. It should be fun, if it feels like just an obligation... what's the point? I mean, from what some of you are expressing, it sounds like you feel obligated to play and the loot is forcing you to play longer than you'd like. Isn't that an odd sentiment to have?

    A table of gear comes out, where you can CHOOSE whether you want the tanking gloves(which you have) or the tanking shoulders (which is whole new and exciting!) Then you don't have a chance of getting a set of fine armor which you already have. I've tried this too many times. It comes up on my bonus roll and i get all excited until i see it's the same damn boot or shoulder that i already have gotten 3 times!

    Conclusion: It would be nice to actually choose the armor you want if you should be so lucky to finally get a loot (which is rare these days LFR). Don't hate, this was just a crazy yet awesome (in my opinion) idea that fell into my little mind!

    But we don't have just LFR, there're normal and Heroic raids. A player running LFR and Normal/Heroic using such a system could probably pick the perfect gear for himself quite quickly. One thing is frustration with not getting loot on the Raid Finder (which is something that may be alleviated in 5.3) and a different thing to have a system where you can basically cherry pick the gear you want to perfectly cover each slot. It takes a lot of that excitement I mentioned.

    Players should get loot for EVERY boss they kill. It's simple as that. You go, you kill, you loot. There can't be nothing else, since the game is not about the lore, story or immersion anymore, but pew pew and lewt. Truth be told.
    That's never been the case in the game.

    If blizzard wants to change this, they should emphasise on the lore and story. Yes, there will be losses, but when the design revolves around killing LFR Tsulong (with THIS char) 20 ACTUAL times and never getting the bloody trinket he drops
    But there were other options, right? You could get other trinkets if the one from Tsulong just refused to drop (which in the other hand, you can safely say is bad luck after so many kills).

    Nobody wants to take RNG away. And nobody talks about getting everything as fast as possible. We want to see Progress in Raiding. Either in Raid-Progress or in IL/Loot. All in good time is a different thing than "Well you will get that Item without alternative maybe never, thats RNG"
    It's just, we can't simply reduce it to "hey, we want progress in raiding". Sure, I bet that's a cool idea for many, but it has consequences on other aspects of the game, and that's what I find interesting, discussing those things. If we reduced everything to the perspective that makes our arguments valid, we would probably just limit ourselves to post either "hey, this is cool, we'll pass it along and see what the developers say" or "hey, sorry but the developers are not considering this". Is that the kind of interaction you'd like from the blues? I'm genuinely curious.

    My DK friend still has no sha touched weapon and he's using the weapon from msv. I dont have my sha touched weapon either, but at least I have the healing mace from MSV upgraded. It's stupid how easy it is to obtain the sha touched gem but getting the weapon simply wont happen.

    I have never gotten my weapon from toes. The drop rate for weapons needs to be increased then people wouldn't be so upset on the matter.

    Ah! But he's using a weapon from that tier!

    Of course, not the one he wanted, but one from it. You can say it felt getting sha touched weapons was too hard which is a valid argument, but it doesn't make my point any less valid, he did get an upgrade. So perhaps the thing isn't just RNG or RNG not, and it's more about... are the items and the effort required to get to them truly rewarding? Let's say Jin'rokh dropped the best weapons of this tier. And only weapons. Would it be as satisfying to finally get them as if they dropped only from Lei Shen?

    I'm not sure you understand where I'm trying to get to. I think discussions like this (about loot systems in wow) are indeed interesting, and I'm 100% sure they provide useful feedback to the developers. It doesn't mean they'll necessarily implement anything of what you've mentioned here, but it'll make them have a better perspective of what the community thinks about this and might even give them a few ideas of their own on how to tackle those things they might also perceive as issues.

    In short, don't focus too much on if I'm rebating your arguments. That's not the point of my posts, in the end it isn't me who you need to convince of anything and there's no gain in happily sitting down and saying "sure, this is all good!". If I'm asking something it's not to be dismissive, just to give more flesh to the discussion and allow more people to chime in with their thoughts. The more (ideas and perspectives), the merrier, because that's what makes these things so interesting.

    Blue Tweets
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    PvE
    will there be leeway for healers to take part in hc scenarios?seems a shame if we miss out on stuff just because we arent dps
    You can heal them. It should allow the other two players to pull more stuff or move faster. (Source)

    The need for real cooperation made WoW great; now absent before normal mode raiding. LFG/LFR == "RaidVille"
    A small percentage of players cooperated. Most just leveled and then rolled an alt or stopped playing. (Source)

    What about making loot depending on the composition? 5 shamans in 10man raid - bigger chance mail dropped? 10 man is hurt now
    We actually like the different types of loot encouraging (but not mandating) class diversity. (Source)
    Benching friends and family because they are not diverse enough sucks. Many 10 mans are built around friend/family.
    That's totally a philosophy we support. It just may not be the most efficient way to play, if that's important to you. (Source)

    why do you add components like brawlers guild and challenge modes if you got no time left for normal 5 mans anymore?
    You're making an apples to oranges comparison. Consider the amount of dungeon architecture in say Stormstout Brewery. (Source)

    Please stop making everything doable by a randomly assembled group. Yes, I know about challenge mode. No loot.
    We're considering heroic scenarios requiring a pre-made group. (Source)
    I could see these going well, but I'd really like to see punishing 5-mans return. *I* like challenge modes, but friends don't.
    The problem we had before was making matchmade dungeons that were essential to progression too challenging. (Source)
    It's possible if you could run matchmaking dungeons to gear for LFR that heroic premade dungeons could also still exist. (Source)

    Does the ptr provide you with enough or proper feedback to tune raids?
    High end - yes. Heroic guilds bring their whole raid and give us lots of numbers and feedback. LFR is pretty easy to test. (Source)
    Normal is the most challenging - PTR raiding is just not something in the DNA of many of those guilds (understandably). (Source)

    Did you ever consider making Lesser Charm of Good Fortune available for Justice Points or BoA? I h8 doing dailies after exalted..
    Elder Charms perhaps, but we don't want Lesser Charms to be grindable that quickly. (Source)

    Can you do anything about duplicate gear in Raid Finder? It isn't fun to get the same item three times...
    We might let "bad streak protection" apply to duplicate items as well but we haven't decided for sure. (Source)

    Clarification on the bonus roll protection. Does it work on rolls in normal raids as well as lfr? and in current content?
    Not sure yet, but my guess is we'll do all bonus rolls and LFR personal loot. (Source)

    Also, this reads like you are planning to lower drop rates to adjust for the new loot system fix in 5.3. True?
    That's not something we want to do. Just clarifying that the goal is to avoid bad streaks not to let everyone gear up faster. (Source)

    Interesting idea from forums to help tank/heal queues: give healers/tanks BoA token that lets dps alt go to front of queue.
    I fear the experience won't be good for everyone if players with no interest or skill in tanking do it just for other rewards. (Source)
    Was me. Do u fear cmplaints frm excsive Q > so so tanks. DPS might tolerate tnks more if they tried it.
    Yeah, true and the right rewards could encourage someone who is ambivalent to tank. Just don't want to force undesirable behavior. (Source)

    Comics - Dark Legacy Comics #385
    Dark Legacy Comics takes a look at the new Determination buff in Raid Finder.


  2. #2
    I liked all of LFR except Lei Shen. Seriously. There are some mechanics that should not be present when playing with 24 strangers.

  3. #3
    MY LUNGS!

    Oh dear god that DLC was hysterical.

  4. #4
    Best Kitten Simca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moveth View Post
    I liked all of LFR except Lei Shen. Seriously. There are some mechanics that should not be present when playing with 24 strangers.
    My run actually went okay today; only two wipes on Lei Shen (none on the other bosses in the 4th wing).

    It helped a lot we had a raid leader who was willing to take 2 minutes to say "stack up on the person who gets super big", "stand in the blue circles to stop adds from spawning", "stack up on people with the blue arrow", and "move away from everything else".
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  5. #5
    Dreadlord Shambulanced's Avatar
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    The RNG argument is pointless. Blizz isn't going to change the loot--the random loot is an intentional, artificial content-extender.

    Btw...funny that the bluepost mentioned fun in the same breath as RNG.

    Because, you know, there's nothing fun about it. After weeks (months!) of not getting the drop, not having something to spend vp/jp on, and LFR giving the same drops over and over (but rarely, if ever, what you need) there isn't this overwhelming feeling of excitement when something finally DOES drop--it's a sort of, "Meh, finally," sense of relief, and then you continue on to the next queue or the next reg/roic raid.

    I've never felt more stagnated in my progression than I have felt in MoP, which is odd, because LFR supposedly makes content so accessible.

  6. #6
    OMG the DLC is priceless. Probally 1 of the best ever. Great job

  7. #7
    Immortal Arbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shambulanced View Post
    The RNG argument is pointless. Blizz isn't going to change the loot--the random loot is an intentional, artificial content-extender.

    Btw...funny that the bluepost mentioned fun in the same breath as RNG.

    Because, you know, there's nothing fun about it. After weeks (months!) of not getting the drop, not having something to spend vp/jp on, and LFR giving the same drops over and over (but rarely, if ever, what you need) there isn't this overwhelming feeling of excitement when something finally DOES drop--it's a sort of, "Meh, finally," sense of relief, and then you continue on to the next queue or the next reg/roic raid.

    I've never felt more stagnated in my progression than I have felt in MoP, which is odd, because LFR supposedly makes content so accessible.
    Or its prevents the ninja looting that we had in Dragon Soul LFR.

  8. #8
    Elemental Lord Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shambulanced View Post
    The RNG argument is pointless. Blizz isn't going to change the loot--the random loot is an intentional, artificial content-extender.

    Btw...funny that the bluepost mentioned fun in the same breath as RNG.

    Because, you know, there's nothing fun about it. After weeks (months!) of not getting the drop, not having something to spend vp/jp on, and LFR giving the same drops over and over (but rarely, if ever, what you need) there isn't this overwhelming feeling of excitement when something finally DOES drop--it's a sort of, "Meh, finally," sense of relief, and then you continue on to the next queue or the next reg/roic raid.

    I've never felt more stagnated in my progression than I have felt in MoP, which is odd, because LFR supposedly makes content so accessible.
    RNG is RNG.

    RNG has always been RNG.

    All of these complaints to suddenly "Change" RNG are idiotic. It's the same way it's always been, SAVE for the charms which give you an extra chance at loot. And people are suddenly complaining RNG is too restrictive?
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  9. #9
    Moderator Zoma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simca View Post
    My run actually went okay today; only two wipes on Lei Shen (none on the other bosses in the 4th wing).

    It helped a lot we had a raid leader who was willing to take 2 minutes to say "stack up on the person who gets super big", "stand in the blue circles to stop adds from spawning", "stack up on people with the blue arrow", and "move away from everything else".
    Had 6 stacks of the determined buff in mine. Our RL's instructions were "Don't stand in the blue crap" and "Stack in the blue stuff". We kept ending up with people running away from the add spawning blue circles and running into the thunderstike ones. There's about 5 variations of "blue stuff" in the mechanics.

  10. #10
    So, with Griftah's Authentic Troll Shoes we get to hide our feet slot, which is great, and it does make me wonder if we'll see more of those in the future.. I always wanted a bare-chested barbarian!

  11. #11
    Stood in the Fire themightysven's Avatar
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    please explain where the excitement is of going through raid after raid & the item (weapon in this case), just never drops? oh look, another raid & yet again nothing drops...i can hardly contain myself until next week when i get yet another chance to try my luck. oh the excitement of it all. put in that context, would you really think its enjoyable to go through yet another LFR only to find it doesnt drop again?
    Now talking about weapons... how often has it really occurred to any of you that you've never had a weapon drop for an entire tier? Personally I've never been in that position. Have I gotten my weapon late in a tier? Yes. Have I gotten it soon after a tier had launched? Yes. That's RNG. I'd wager if most people could plan their upgrades, weapons might be on the number one spot (depending on the class, of course).
    I almost want to go over to the official thread and tell the sad tale of my first max level character, who in their first heroic got the 2handed mace from Maiden of Grief, then didn't see a weapon (of any sort, not just useable ones) drop for the next 18 months until 2 weeks before 4.0, when a 2 handed sword upgrade dropped, a DK won it, and promptly disenchanted it. When cata hit I took her over to Mt. Hyjal, did the first 5 quests, got a massive green upgrade, and haven't played her since.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-17 at 12:51 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Varulv View Post
    So, with Griftah's Authentic Troll Shoes we get to hide our feet slot, which is great, and it does make me wonder if we'll see more of those in the future.. I always wanted a bare-chested barbarian!
    there's an invisible leather top for alliance from the Hinterlands, but unfortunately it doesn't transmog (yet)
    Ewok Sith Lords are all about Agility

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Archdruid Dehydrate View Post
    Or its prevents the ninja looting that we had in Dragon Soul LFR.
    I find it funny that we have replaced the occasional troll in LFR from DS with the full time troll that is the current LFR system.

    Random small chance that you "win", then a 1 in X chance to win an item that may be useless or an item that you already have. And guess what? It never changes! Bad odds are bad till the end. Has anyone actually filled every slot through LFR?
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  13. #13
    Elemental Lord Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theturn View Post
    I find it funny that we have replaced the occasional troll in LFR from DS with the full time troll that is the current LFR system.
    Don't be dense. The old loot layout in LFR was awful; people just now say they "liked" it more because they could see if a relevant item dropped, even if someone else won it.

    Random small chance that you "win", then a 1 in X chance to win an item that may be useless or an item that you already have. And guess what? It never changes! Bad odds are bad till the end.
    Can you prove that the odds of getting an item now are lower than the odds of getting an item back in DS LFR? As I remember, Blizzard has said the chances should be equivalent.

    Has anyone actually filled every slot through LFR?
    I did.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  14. #14
    Herald of the Titans Keosen's Avatar
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    Awesome DLC really funny.

  15. #15
    I don't mind RNG, I just hate that weapons are such ridiculously big upgrades. I'm still using a 489 weapon from MSV that I got from a coin. It was exciting to get it off our first kill, but I wouldn't have been that excited knowing that I would never be able to get rid of it... Again, the RNG wouldn't be so bad if weapons didn't hold you back on DPS so much.

  16. #16
    I am Murloc! Alenarien's Avatar
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    The Monk set from Battlefield: Barrens is one of the biggest goddamn cop-outs i've ever seen. You'd think they'd make a brand new set for a class that's lacking 4 expansions worth of tier/dungeon sets.

  17. #17
    @Ale,

    then please show me where DK's got such treatment. Guess what, they only got recoloured starting gear. Nothing special either.

    Stop expecting BLizzard to go back to all the tiers and add extra loot just for new classes, it won't happen.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Varulv View Post
    So, with Griftah's Authentic Troll Shoes we get to hide our feet slot, which is great, and it does make me wonder if we'll see more of those in the future.. I always wanted a bare-chested barbarian!
    Damn. Trolls want shoes for so long and now they give others... bare feet. DUH.

  19. #19
    Bugger, I was hoping that gear was the high def gear on the character create/customize screens even if it was only for transmog purposes.........

  20. #20
    Bloodsail Admiral Thundertom's Avatar
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    I sure hop they're never giving in to the whine on RNG drops. The blues seem completely right when they say there is no incentive to keep raiding if you just get everything you want after a set amount of time. I've had my set of unlucky streaks (Draconian Deflector, Chestplate of Valor (NINJAD BY A MIGHT ARMOR WEARING WARRIOR AAARGH), King's Defender, The Unbreakable Will spring to mind) but it's only encouraged me to keep going there, and the reward when I finally got said items was much more awesome then the reward I would have gotten if I would have known in advance that tonight was going to be my night.

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