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  1. #1

    A little fed up with blizzard politics

    And by that I mean their vague sometimes pointless comments that really don't get a definitive answer.

    That and the downright lies.

    I keep seeing "we made [x] change for mop because we were told [y] was a problem with cata"

    I think that is such bullshit, they say this kind of crap when it suits them, when they flat out disagree the line is usually "ultimately its our game and we will do what we want" and then some line about "community collaboration on game development doesn't necessarily make a better game" now the line is "we gave you what you wanted and you still don't like it" i don't think that ANY of the feature in MoP are/were what the community was calling for.

    There may have been several features that addressed specific issues, but none of them are/were done in a way that the community asked for. It always has its indignant blizzard signature on it.

    (1) New features of MoP, dynamic quests and storytelling, scenarios, dailies, etc etc.

    This was to address the problem of "not having enough to do" the problem is that these extra feature weren't really options they were required for any sort of progression, and that progression was tedious. Why couldn't they just add more dailies, more content without the insane rep grinds and/or required gameplay for progression?

    (2) Balance changes. People have been claiming Mages are OP the ENTIRE expansion. (I don't play a mage, so this isn't the source of my issue, just an observation) they claim the whole expansion that they are pleased with where classes are... yada yada yada, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.

    Now all of a sudden mages are OP... and how do they fix it? By nerfing an ability that adds bonus spell damage by 15% from 30% HALF of what it was.

    These drastic pendulum swings are SO fucking frustrating to me... why does it always have to be so damn extreme? Why can't they just make small tweaks to the game to achieve a balance where people are happy.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Bilbo Baggins View Post
    "ultimately its our game and we will do what we want"
    you pretty much answered your own question.
    "I can't see it anymore... I am 907, after a while you just can't see it. I look at a star and it's just a big ball of burning gas. I know how it began and how it ends and I was probably there both times. After a while everything is just stuff. That's the problem, you make all of time and space your backyard and what do you end up with - a backyard! But you, you can see it and when you see it, I see it." -D. Who

  3. #3
    The Patient
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    I think that Blizzard spends too much time giving excuses instead of solutions to major problems that appeared in MoP.

  4. #4
    High Overlord Thrax's Avatar
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    Most irritating community manager comment: "Developers are aware of the low population servers", since the very existence of wow.

    They are very concerned about everybody seeing all of the content they have created, but somehow not of those people who are stuck on dead-end realms who can't afford a transfer and cannot even find a community to do these content with.

    Edit: I used to be one of them back in '08. Moved on since but it still bothers me they still haven't implemented a working solution for the poor blokes (lone wolves) who just play World of Queuecraft.
    Last edited by Thrax; 2013-05-16 at 02:43 PM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Thrax View Post
    Most irritating community manager comment: "Developers are aware of the low population servers", since the very existence of wow.

    They are very concerned about everybody seeing all of the content they have created, but somehow not of those people who are stuck on dead-end realms who can't afford a transfer and cannot even find a community to do these content with.

    Edit: I used to be one of them back in '08. Moved on since but it still bothers me they still haven't implemented a working solution for the poor blokes (lone wolves) who just play World of Queuecraft.
    and again some clueless wow player who thinks they know how everyting works and how things should be fixed. yet forget about the fact that saying/hinting how to fix stuff is easly done. implenting it might be alot harder. and if you dont like your low pop or high pop server pay for the fucking transfer and be done with it.

  6. #6
    Look, when you design a game and decide that this expansion we will be putting a lot of effort into dailies (because lets face it, you may not like them, a lot of people may not like them but there are people out there that will bitch just as loudly if they don't have more of them, because you dont represent millions of people.) and you realise that they are problematic you tweek them, you don't bring the whole game to a halt until the next expansion when you 'learn from past results' and design a new game system.

    Its like a bus, if its packed with people and they complain about the A/C not working you dont stop the bus and do repairs in the middle of the highway, you open the windows and continue on your way until you drop everyone off and then take it to the shop at the end of the run and then you fix the problem.

    Blizzard has tweeked the daily problems, they added tokens, they removed the requirement to do Golden Lotus before August and Shado pan (Which I understand why since chronologically speaking the Mogu in the Valley were supposed to be dealt with first and it was a story telling tool.) and they continue to tweek mops systems to make people happy, less tokens for a greater token means less dailies, 33% exp reduction means alt-a-holics can get their alts on.

    So don't act like Blizzard doesn't listen to us about what we don't like.

    If you are this worked up about Blizzard I would suggest taking a break from the game and finding your happy spot again.

  7. #7
    "gave an explanation I don't agree with" is not the same thing as "lying"

  8. #8
    High Overlord Nihilostromrage's Avatar
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    I also grow weary of this game. I think its time to finally call it quits. Blizzard simply cannot keep things fresh and fair for everyone to be fair to them but the community has changed to many more younger people with different values; which would explain pet battles and a card game. All the people I started playing with are gone. Why they all left is now apparent to me.

  9. #9
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Look, when you design a game and decide that this expansion we will be putting a lot of effort into dailies (because lets face it, you may not like them, a lot of people may not like them but there are people out there that will bitch just as loudly if they don't have more of them, because you dont represent millions of people.) and you realise that they are problematic you tweek them, you don't bring the whole game to a halt until the next expansion when you 'learn from past results' and design a new game system.

    Its like a bus, if its packed with people and they complain about the A/C not working you dont stop the bus and do repairs in the middle of the highway, you open the windows and continue on your way until you drop everyone off and then take it to the shop at the end of the run and then you fix the problem.

    Blizzard has tweeked the daily problems, they added tokens, they removed the requirement to do Golden Lotus before August and Shado pan (Which I understand why since chronologically speaking the Mogu in the Valley were supposed to be dealt with first and it was a story telling tool.) and they continue to tweek mops systems to make people happy, less tokens for a greater token means less dailies, 33% exp reduction means alt-a-holics can get their alts on.

    So don't act like Blizzard doesn't listen to us about what we don't like.

    If you are this worked up about Blizzard I would suggest taking a break from the game and finding your happy spot again.
    Not really. Based on their constant Twter responses, for examples, it's very clear, at least to me, that they just give us excuses why they did that. Most of theirresponses regarding major problems are "We are aware that X is a problem, but we do it because in Y (previous expansion) there was a Z problem", and that's it. If they at least said "We know it's a problem and we will figure out how to solve", we would be happier, but the way they put things, it looks like nothing will change at all in the future.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilostromrage View Post
    I also grow weary of this game. I think its time to finally call it quits. Blizzard simply cannot keep things fresh and fair for everyone to be fair to them but the community has changed to many more younger people with different values; which would explain pet battles and a card game. All the people I started playing with are gone. Why they all left is now apparent to me.
    Again you consider yourself to be everyone. I have adult friends that bitched up a storm over pet battles and threatened to quit the game over 'catering to children' and then when pet battles hit they tried it and went nuts over it and actually stayed around just to pet battle. You need to get over this ideal that wow is only for adults, its for everyone and that means you have to put up with people you normally wouldn't socialise with because the game does not belong to you and you are not everyone.

  11. #11
    The Patient
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    Just look at the most recent tweets:

    It is irrelevant that they are different tiers GC, you have made alt playing not fun in MoP.
    The tons of raid-geared alts didn't happen until Dragon Soul. Then players naturally expected to keep the into 5.0. (Source)
    I'm not saying there weren't alts before, but the average player having 4-5 happened in Dragon Soul.
    While Cata was very friendly to alts, which was a good thing, since players could easily explore different playstyles, MoP is very alt unfriendly. Ever since the release of MoP, players cryed out loud asking for a more alt friendly enviroment, their response to that: "Alts were a DS "problem", the way things are now are considered "normal".


    You say you have the best programmers, any chance they can programme the lucky coins to not give you an item you already have?
    Trivially. But should they? There are downsides to getting all the gear you want as fast as you want it.
    There is a problem in the RNG system. Besides the fact that it is not fun to unlucky players, it might also be horrible when you consider that the player who got the item didn't even need it! I, for one, have gotten countless items that I just vendored afterwards, knowing that someone might be needing it. In regular raid,s people could decide which one would get the loot, or, at least say if you need it. Facing this frustagin problem, Blizzard just said: "Well, even tho it's very frustating to you to see someone else getting the gear, it might be worst if you get the gear you worked for, and end up with nothing to do, because you know, we can't develop content that will last for 3 months."

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Bilbo Baggins View Post
    "we gave you what you wanted and you still don't like it"
    that's because game design is a job, for professional.
    i know it feel to us, as player, that we would know how to design game better, but the fact is, this is a science (or art, depends how you look at it) and one does not just improvise game designer.


    blizzard should never make design decision based on forum feedback. Read them to get inspiration or get them thinking is ok, but never, make a decision based on forum complaint. They got to have more solid data than that.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Drakesong View Post
    Just look at the most recent tweets:



    While Cata was very friendly to alts, which was a good thing, since players could easily explore different playstyles, MoP is very alt unfriendly. Ever since the release of MoP, players cryed out loud asking for a more alt friendly enviroment, their response to that: "Alts were a DS "problem", the way things are now are considered "normal".




    There is a problem in the RNG system. Besides the fact that it is not fun to unlucky players, it might also be horrible when you consider that the player who got the item didn't even need it! I, for one, have gotten countless items that I just vendored afterwards, knowing that someone might be needing it. In regular raid,s people could decide which one would get the loot, or, at least say if you need it. Facing this frustagin problem, Blizzard just said: "Well, even tho it's very frustating to you to see someone else getting the gear, it might be worst if you get the gear you worked for, and end up with nothing to do, because you know, we can't develop content that will last for 3 months."
    Cata was friendly to alts only because there wasn't enough to do. Blizzard designed Cata so players could spend less time in game and it backfired. Instead people leveled 453 alts and grinded all their gear/rep to max and said DONE.

    MOP brought it back down to a mix between BC and LK. The missing link is the catch-up dungeons which is now LFR. They eliminated gearing and alt in 1 week.

  14. #14
    Activison Blizzard are just doing what every video game company seems to be doing these days, acting as if gamers have some obligation to support them regardless of the quality of their output, and blaming their own problems and mistakes on their customers.

  15. #15
    If you are unhappy, then feel free to leave, there are more than enough people that are happy with Blizzard to sustain their games

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    MOP brought it back down to a mix between BC and LK. The missing link is the catch-up dungeons which is now LFR. They eliminated gearing and alt in 1 week.
    MoP is like BC and WoLK? huh?

  17. #17
    Pandaren Monk Otiswhitaker's Avatar
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    More annoying to me are when they obviously admit that something is a problem, then do nothing about it, and then vaguely suggest they might look into it IN A PATCH THAT WILL COME OUT SEVERAL MONTHS LATER.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Drakesong View Post
    Not really. Based on their constant Twter responses, for examples, it's very clear, at least to me, that they just give us excuses why they did that. Most of theirresponses regarding major problems are "We are aware that X is a problem, but we do it because in Y (previous expansion) there was a Z problem", and that's it. If they at least said "We know it's a problem and we will figure out how to solve", we would be happier, but the way they put things, it looks like nothing will change at all in the future.
    Well yes you are very much correct when you say "Its very clear, at least to me,", I am sure when it comes to you that it is very very clear what all this 'man behind the curtain' and skull duggery means, I mean its going to mean what ever you think it means when it all comes down to 'at least to me'.

    So you are mostly getting all bent out of shape because of the way they are presenting the message, to which I will note there are many MMO's out there that don't communicate with their fan base at all, like DCU.

    Its very clear, at least to me, that you are looking for a reason to get bent out of shape.

  19. #19
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    One cannot please every single customer ever. OP is proof for that.

    4000 Blizzard employers. Gawd knows how many MVPs, Community managers, Designers. All of them on Twitter, in forums, answering a million questions, some of the posters..may I say..downright rude assholes?

    Okay..be fed up if you want to call that "Blizzard politics" but you gotta realize that no MMO is static, it never has the same crows, it develops and changes. What was right in 2006 might not be right in 2008 and what worked in 2009 might not work in 2012. It is adaptation and staying on your toes to be ahead of the curve.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-16 at 05:46 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ribald View Post
    Activison Blizzard are just doing what every video game company seems to be doing these days, acting as if gamers have some obligation to support them regardless of the quality of their output, and blaming their own problems and mistakes on their customers.
    ...so go ahead, show them who is boss and stop buying a product that you disagree with. This isn't North Korea or something where you must love the leader or be shot....
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  20. #20
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    I'm not going to deny that often some of their responses and tweets are bad, but Blizzard really can't win with millions of people picking apart everything they say, overanalysing, taking ideas as promises. I mean, the OP is a perfect example. A statement saying they listen to the community is suddenly lying because Blizzard doesn't bend to the community's whims, a statement saying they ultimately make the decision suddenly means they don't care about feedback. What are they supposed to say? Can you think of anything, on any topic, that they could say that eight million players would all like and agree with?

    I don't think there's anything wrong with that statement quoted in the first post. It reflects that they listened to the complaints from Cataclysm, and then made their own decision about how to solve it. It's a good balance between hearing feedback but honouring their own goals and skills as developers.
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