View Poll Results: Amount suing for Excessive or Justified?

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  • Excessive

    111 75.00%
  • Justified

    37 25.00%
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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post
    So, profiling is okay?
    Is it ethical? No.

    Is it reasonable? It is if you believe in statistics.

    I'll be the first to say it. I'm more afraid of my people than I'm afraid of other people. Please protect me from my people. My people are assholes and don't give a fuck.
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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Torethyr View Post
    Is it ethical? No.

    Is it reasonable? It is if you believe in statistics.

    I'll be the first to say it. I'm more afraid of my people than I'm afraid of other people. Please protect me from my people. My people are assholes and don't give a fuck.
    I didn't realise we are quantifying the "My people, your people" argument.

  3. #23
    Legendary! Asmekiel's Avatar
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    3.6 million. I don't know what to say... So he spent a few minutes in the back of a police car because he refused to identify himself. Given the circumstances I'd say it's his own fault.
    Think I'll move to where he lives, I'd love to earn that much in 10 minutes.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    In Ohio, yes there is. Same goes for about 15 other states.
    http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2921.29

    (A) No person who is in a public place shall refuse to disclose the person's name, address, or date of birth, when requested by a law enforcement officer who reasonably suspects either of the following:
    .(1) The person is committing, has committed, or is about to commit a criminal offense.
    .(2) The person witnessed any of the following:
    ..(a) An offense of violence that would constitute a felony under the laws of this state;
    ..(b) A felony offense that causes or results in, or creates a substantial risk of, serious physical harm to another person or to property;
    ..(c) Any attempt or conspiracy to commit, or complicity in committing, any offense identified in division (A)(2)(a) or (b) of this section;
    ..(d) Any conduct reasonably indicating that any offense identified in division (A)(2)(a) or (b) of this section or any attempt, conspiracy, or complicity described in division (A)(2)(c) of this section has been, is being, or is about to be committed.

    So like I said, he was not required to identify himself. There is no reasonable suspicion that he was committing, had committed, or was about to commit a crime by merely wearing a firearm.
    Last edited by Porcell; 2013-05-16 at 05:50 PM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    In Ohio, yes there is. Same goes for about 15 other states.
    Depends. The Ohio law requires the officer to "reasonably suspect" the guy is committing, has committed, or is about to commit, or is witness to a crime.

    Edit: And Porcell beat me to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Porcell View Post

    On the refusal to ID; don't give me "Why's he being a hardass" or "Why's he making it difficult" or "He should just tell them." No, how about the police accept the lawful answer of "Fuck off, I don't have to tell you who I am." Because -THAT- is the law. It's like if cops showed up at your house and said "Hey, let us in and look around" or stopped you on the street and said "Hey, let me look through your purse and tell me who you are." No, you don't have to submit to the police.

    I just wish Police would not infringe on the rights of citizens, and I wish they would be punished when they do.
    Or you could be a civil decent human and just say, 'this is who I am' have a little chat and chill out. Your examples are not what happened here are they. I used to get stop searched a ton (young man walking through bad area, wearing a hoody). No problem officers, this is who I am, this is what I'm doing and this is where I'm going. They are just trying to be proactive and help they aren't out to get you.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Porcell View Post
    http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2921.29

    (A) No person who is in a public place shall refuse to disclose the person's name, address, or date of birth, when requested by a law enforcement officer who reasonably suspects either of the following:
    .(1) The person is committing, has committed, or is about to commit a criminal offense.
    .(2) The person witnessed any of the following:
    ..(a) An offense of violence that would constitute a felony under the laws of this state;
    ..(b) A felony offense that causes or results in, or creates a substantial risk of, serious physical harm to another person or to property;
    ..(c) Any attempt or conspiracy to commit, or complicity in committing, any offense identified in division (A)(2)(a) or (b) of this section;
    ..(d) Any conduct reasonably indicating that any offense identified in division (A)(2)(a) or (b) of this section or any attempt, conspiracy, or complicity described in division (A)(2)(c) of this section has been, is being, or is about to be committed.

    So like I said, he was not required to identify himself. There is no reasonable suspicion that he was committing, had committed, or was about to commit a crime by merely wearing a firearm.
    The officers were responding to a call about a man carrying a firearm. If you don't think that's a justifiable reason to just ask a man for his ID...well I guess we're done here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helden View Post
    Tradewind isn't helping.

  8. #28
    (A) No person who is in a public place shall refuse to disclose the person's name, address, or date of birth, when requested by a law enforcement officer who reasonably suspects either of the following:
    .(1) The person is committing, has committed, or is about to commit a criminal offense.
    I'd call being in a convenience store at 4:30 AM with a gun reasonably suspect. How many more red flags need to be present before it becomes reasonable to suspect a possible robbery?
    Torethirnyi, Blackwing's Bane - Orc Enhancement Shaman - <Conviction> of Korgath - (H) 9/13 25-man - Retired from WoW in 4.1
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  9. #29
    Warchief Frolk's Avatar
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    lol "emotional trauma" biggest load of crap i heard all day
    Greedy fucks all of em
    I put the laughter in manslaughter
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  10. #30
    It's not like they rolled up in the SWAT truck and tazered him.
    "Osbourne Cox? I thought you might be worried... About the security... Of your shit."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helden View Post
    Tradewind isn't helping.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctd123 View Post
    Or you could be a civil decent human and just say, 'this is who I am' have a little chat and chill out. Your examples are not what happened here are they. I used to get stop searched a ton (young man walking through bad area, wearing a hoody). No problem officers, this is who I am, this is what I'm doing and this is where I'm going. They are just trying to be proactive and help they aren't out to get you.
    The police are not your friends. I know they are just doing their job, but I wish to move about the world unhindered. Would you prefer that you not stopped? Because by submitting to them, you are just authorizing them to keep doing the same thing. Citizens should resist unlawful requests.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    It's not like they rolled up in the SWAT truck and tazered him.
    That's part of what I meant by "it could have gone worse quite easily".

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Porcell View Post
    The police are not your friends. I know they are just doing their job, but I wish to move about the world unhindered. Would you prefer that you not stopped? Because by submitting to them, you are just authorizing them to keep doing the same thing. Citizens should resist unlawful requests.
    Except it was lawful. Oops.
    "Osbourne Cox? I thought you might be worried... About the security... Of your shit."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helden View Post
    Tradewind isn't helping.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    The officers were responding to a call about a man carrying a firearm. If you don't think that's a justifiable reason to just ask a man for his ID...well I guess we're done here.
    It's not a crime to be carrying a firearm, therefore there's no reasonable suspicion and thus, no cause.
    Hell, depending on the part of town, carrying a gun at 4:30 am might be perfectly reasonable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    It's not like they rolled up in the SWAT truck and tazered him.
    "It's coming right for us *Tazer*. STOP RESISTING SIR, STOP OR I WILL TAZER YOU AGAIN *Tazer*"

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torethyr View Post
    I'd call being in a convenience store at 4:30 AM with a gun reasonably suspect. How many more red flags need to be present before it becomes reasonable to suspect a possible robbery?
    Because carrying a firearm is completely legal, that's why it's not suspect. Wearing a firearm is no different than wearing jeans or wearing sandals. I walk into a store and try and buy some milk, that's not suspect.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post
    It's not a crime to be carrying a firearm, therefore there's no reasonable suspicion and thus, no cause.
    Hell, depending on the part of town, carrying a gun at 4:30 am might be perfectly reasonable.
    Except to someone else it appeared suspicious. The police have an obligation to respond. He, had a legal obligation to identify himself to the officers.

    It's not like the cops saw him just walking around and decided to get on his ass...

    What's the other alternative? The 911 operator or the local dispatcher telling whoever reported the guy to "fuck off, this is 'Murrica." Cops are always going to go in expecting the worst case scenario. It should be obvious why.
    "Osbourne Cox? I thought you might be worried... About the security... Of your shit."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helden View Post
    Tradewind isn't helping.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    Except it was lawful. Oops.
    By unlawful request, I mean one that you are not legally obligated to respond to. He can ask anything he wants. You do not have to lawfully respond. That is what i mean. You should resist requests that you are not lawfully obligated to follow.

  19. #39
    Legendary! Asmekiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post
    It's not a crime to be carrying a firearm, therefore there's no reasonable suspicion and thus, no cause.
    Hell, depending on the part of town, carrying a gun at 4:30 am might be perfectly reasonable.
    From the article
    “Given the time of the day, the location, and the fact that convenience store/gas stations are typical targets for robberies in the middle of the night,” Reiss said. “It would seem reasonable in the eyes of a police officer to ask someone who was carrying a gun if it was legally permissible for them to do so.”
    I'd rather they ask him there so he can proof he's not planning to do any harm than that the same person would rob the place because they may not act.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    Except to someone else it appeared suspicious. The police have an obligation to respond. He, had a legal obligation to identify himself to the officers.

    It's not like the cops saw him just walking around and decided to get on his ass...

    What's the other alternative? The 911 operator or the local dispatcher telling whoever reported the guy to "fuck off, this is 'Murrica."
    Someone else made a call, that's their skewed perception but whatever. Yes the police had an obligation to respond. NO, the "suspect" did NOT have a legal obligation to identify himself to the officer. Why don't you understand that?

    And I would hope the police officer would respond to the caller and let them know that carrying a firearm is legal. That never happens though.

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