View Poll Results: Amount suing for Excessive or Justified?

Voters
148. You may not vote on this poll
  • Excessive

    111 75.00%
  • Justified

    37 25.00%
Page 3 of 10 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
5
... LastLast
  1. #41
    High Overlord Scarlet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Land of Ooo
    Posts
    104
    Excessive. I was wrongfully detained and had 6 guns pointed at me when they ran my friend's cars plates, but the cop typed a wrong number and it came up as stolen.

    I went to a lawyer and they laughed at me.

    I hope the judge does the same for this guy.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Porcell View Post
    The police are not your friends. I know they are just doing their job, but I wish to move about the world unhindered. Would you prefer that you not stopped? Because by submitting to them, you are just authorizing them to keep doing the same thing. Citizens should resist unlawful requests.
    The police are your friends unless you are living in some corrupt 3rd world country run by drug gangs. Is it really that much of an inconvienice? Why not just take 5 minutes to co-operate. If they are polite with you why not just be polite back. I've never had a problem with the police and found them pretty helpful if I ever needed them. Why make life hard for them and yourself?

  3. #43
    You're wearing a gun in a convenience store at 4:30am, people are going to be suspicious/scared. This entire situation could have been resolved in what, 10 seconds, by the guy giving the police some basic info and not being a prick.

    I'm so sick of people trying to create a police state narrative. Cops deal with human scum on a daily basis, and they get killed often enough that they should be suspicious of confrontational people.

    The correct response was "Sorry if I caused any disturbance, my name is ________ feel free to check things out, I will leave after completing my purchase."

    Also, he lied to police about not having identification. Right to be there or not, that's where the obstruction charged came from. They dropped it because the entire situation is a colossal waste of everyone's time.

    Next time, don't be a pushy D.

  4. #44
    Herald of the Titans serenka's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Berkshire - South England
    Posts
    2,851
    excessive if you ask me. while carrying openly may be legal there, walking into a shop at that sort of time with a gun looks a bit suspicious, and by the sounds of it all the police wanted to do was ID him and he could have been on his way.

    $600,000 emotional trauma, yeah i dont think a police officer asking to see his ID caused that much trauma.
    dragonmaw - EU

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Porcell View Post
    Someone else made a call, that's their skewed perception but whatever. Yes the police had an obligation to respond. NO, the "suspect" did NOT have a legal obligation to identify himself to the officer. Why don't you understand that?

    And I would hope the police officer would respond to the caller and let them know that carrying a firearm is legal. That never happens though.
    Yes...he did have that obligation..."Why don't you understand that?"

    Why the hell else would police have even arrived if there wasn't a concern for a crime to be committed?

    Think about it for a second and what if he was intending to commit a crime. Dispatcher/Officer tells caller "oh it's all good, Ohio is an open carry state!" Guy robs 7-11. Who looks like the shithead then? Better to play it safe and check it out.

  6. #46
    Legendary! Asmekiel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Maybe over there
    Posts
    6,488
    Quote Originally Posted by Porcell View Post
    Someone else made a call, that's their skewed perception but whatever. Yes the police had an obligation to respond. NO, the "suspect" did NOT have a legal obligation to identify himself to the officer. Why don't you understand that?

    And I would hope the police officer would respond to the caller and let them know that carrying a firearm is legal. That never happens though.
    And how would they know he has a CCW when he refuses to show it. For all I care it's the president standing there, if someone reports him for suspicious behavior and he carries a gun and he refuses to identify himself, the police should detain him until his identity is verified.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Porcell View Post
    Because carrying a firearm is completely legal, that's why it's not suspect. Wearing a firearm is no different than wearing jeans or wearing sandals. I walk into a store and try and buy some milk, that's not suspect.
    So the context of a situation doesn't matter at all? You can never suspect anyone who's carrying a gun of ever doing anything malicious with a gun just because it's legal to carry it?
    Torethirnyi, Blackwing's Bane - Orc Enhancement Shaman - <Conviction> of Korgath - (H) 9/13 25-man - Retired from WoW in 4.1
    Champion Torethyr Sarin - Cyborg Vengeance Juggernaut - <Conviction> of Prophecy of the Five - 10/10 Nightmare Mode - Retired

    Nothing makes you hate MMOs more than having played MMOs.

  8. #48
    Warchief Clevername's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    behind cover
    Posts
    2,135
    Quote Originally Posted by serenka View Post
    $600,000 emotional trauma, yeah i dont think a police officer asking to see his ID caused that much trauma.
    well you sorta left out the part where they handcuffed him and tossed him in the back of the car.

  9. #49
    Warchief
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    2,143
    http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/8510

    The above link is a memo from the Cincinnati police chief advising his staff about open carry in Ohio. There is a similar type of document in Michigan from the attorney general. The job is now just getting ALL police officers to read and acknowledge the below points. It is legal, and you must look at the actions of the individual to determine RAS that something criminal is happening. A guy in public at whatever time doing something legal is NOT RAS that a crime is happening.

    "Many people worry when they see someone openly carrying a gun. Officers can expect to receive calls when this happens. But, openly carrying a firearm, by itself, is not illegal. The fact that someone has called 911 or flagged down an officer about seeing someone with a gun in public is probably not enough to support an investigative detention. In such situations, an officer must observe the subject and evaluate the totality of circumstances to determine whether reasonable suspicion exists to justify detaining the individual. If the individual is doing nothing else that arouses suspicion, simply wearing a gun will not justify a detention.

    "It is important to note, open carry by itself also would not support a charge of Disorderly Conduct or Inducing Panic. There must be additional facts to support these offenses. If someone is lawfully carrying a firearm—and doing nothing else— the fact that it causes alarm to others does not support a charge.

    "Equally important, before you charge someone with a violation of Ohio Revised Code (ORC) 2921.29, Failure to Disclose Personal Information (also referred to as the "Stop and I.D." law), you first must have reasonable suspicion that person has, is, or is about to commit a criminal offense. The "Stop and I.D." law does not apply unless you already have a valid investigative detention of the person – and open carry by itself is not enough. Citizens may ignore your request for information during a consensual encounter, so you may only charge a citizen with a violation of ORC 2921.29 when they are legally detained.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Asmekiel View Post
    And how would they know he has a CCW when he refuses to show it. For all I care it's the president standing there, if someone reports him for suspicious behavior and he carries a gun and he refuses to identify himself, the police should detain him until his identity is verified.
    Ohio doesn't require a CCW

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Clevername View Post
    well you sorta left out the part where they handcuffed him and tossed him in the back of the car.
    Because he was breaking the law. That usually happens to people who do that.

  12. #52
    Warchief Clevername's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    behind cover
    Posts
    2,135
    Quote Originally Posted by Torethyr View Post
    You can never suspect anyone of ever doing anything malicious with a gun just because it's legal to carry one?
    would you suspect someone wearing running shoes of being a thief who's going to steal your shit and run off?

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Porcell View Post
    http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/8510

    The above link is a memo from the Cincinnati police chief advising his staff about open carry in Ohio. There is a similar type of document in Michigan from the attorney general.

    "Many people worry when they see someone openly carrying a gun. Officers can expect to receive calls when this happens. But, openly carrying a firearm, by itself, is not illegal. The fact that someone has called 911 or flagged down an officer about seeing someone with a gun in public is probably not enough to support an investigative detention. In such situations, an officer must observe the subject and evaluate the totality of circumstances to determine whether reasonable suspicion exists to justify detaining the individual. If the individual is doing nothing else that arouses suspicion, simply wearing a gun will not justify a detention.

    "It is important to note, open carry by itself also would not support a charge of Disorderly Conduct or Inducing Panic. There must be additional facts to support these offenses. If someone is lawfully carrying a firearm—and doing nothing else— the fact that it causes alarm to others does not support a charge.

    "Equally important, before you charge someone with a violation of Ohio Revised Code (ORC) 2921.29, Failure to Disclose Personal Information (also referred to as the "Stop and I.D." law), you first must have reasonable suspicion that person has, is, or is about to commit a criminal offense. The "Stop and I.D." law does not apply unless you already have a valid investigative detention of the person – and open carry by itself is not enough. Citizens may ignore your request for information during a consensual encounter, so you may only charge a citizen with a violation of ORC 2921.29 when they are legally detained.
    You don't seem to understand the concept of "reasonable suspicion" and how it relates to an individual walking around in the middle of the night with a gun on his waist.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    You don't seem to understand the concept of "reasonable suspicion" and how it relates to an individual walking around in the middle of the night with a gun on his waist.
    Again: just carrying a gun, no matter the time of day, is not "reasonable suspicion". Take a minute, watch him: if he acts suspicious, engage him, otherwise, feel free to engage him anyways, but know that he doesn't have to answer you (consensual encounter).

    Yes, it would've been resolved easier if he had identified himself. But he had the right not to, and he chose to exercise that right. I think the amount he's suing for is excessive, but it does increase the chances of getting the actual amount he seeks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Clevername View Post
    well you sorta left out the part where they handcuffed him and tossed him in the back of the car.
    Yes, $600,000 worth of damage right there, minor discomfort and a free ride to an establishment that deals with legality, which from what i see, was rightful.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Porcell View Post
    Citizens may ignore your request for information during a consensual encounter, so you may only charge a citizen with a violation of ORC 2921.29 when they are legally detained.
    Is there a difference between "ignoring" a police request for ID by saying "I don't have to give you that" and lying to the police and saying "I don't have any ID" ?

    That might be what this entire case comes down to.

  17. #57
    Herald of the Titans serenka's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Berkshire - South England
    Posts
    2,851
    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    Because he was breaking the law. That usually happens to people who do that.


    was he breaking the law? i thought open carrying was legal there?
    dragonmaw - EU

  18. #58
    Warchief Clevername's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    behind cover
    Posts
    2,135
    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    Because he was breaking the law. That usually happens to people who do that.
    Read Porcell's above quote, pretty much negates what you said.

  19. #59
    Legendary! Asmekiel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Maybe over there
    Posts
    6,488
    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post
    Ohio doesn't require a CCW
    Oh, right, my bad. Still doesn't justify him refusing to say who he is when he had been reported doing suspicious things.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Clevername View Post
    would you suspect someone wearing running shoes of being a thief who's going to steal your shit and run off?
    As my post said, it depends on the context. if he was eying the stuff in the back of my car, then yeah, I'd suspect that's exactly what he was going to do.

    Just like having a gun didn't make this guys suspect, what made him suspect was that he had a gun at 4:30 AM in a convenience store, which are commonly the victims of robbery at such hours.
    Last edited by Torethyr; 2013-05-16 at 06:13 PM.
    Torethirnyi, Blackwing's Bane - Orc Enhancement Shaman - <Conviction> of Korgath - (H) 9/13 25-man - Retired from WoW in 4.1
    Champion Torethyr Sarin - Cyborg Vengeance Juggernaut - <Conviction> of Prophecy of the Five - 10/10 Nightmare Mode - Retired

    Nothing makes you hate MMOs more than having played MMOs.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •