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  1. #101
    Dotter specs can be trivialized with Affdots for lock/boomies/spriest.

    You just need to react to the green light, its not hard, not hard at all. Its clunky with Wooshulay or the UVLS but not hard, that's sure.

    WW monks with RoRo trinket if u want something not so RNG, rewarding and totally akward: chi banking while energy starved must feel good <3

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Purpleisbetter View Post
    Dotter specs can be trivialized with Affdots for lock/boomies/spriest.

    You just need to react to the green light, its not hard, not hard at all. Its clunky with Wooshulay or the UVLS but not hard, that's sure.

    WW monks with RoRo trinket if u want something not so RNG, rewarding and totally akward: chi banking while energy starved must feel good <3
    Dunno about others, but i don't really watch colors from affdots and the addon itself is not that helpful. For me it's just fun to watch your dot power compared to your dots now if you were to refresh them. I watch my procs and generally know my current dot powers, sure if you are "beginner" or "not so good player" it might take brains out of dotting and just react to affdot colors without understanding dotting on more deep level. And what i mean by "deep level" is that there are lot of micro decisions should you refresh your dots or not and how should you refresh them.

  3. #103
    Elemental Lord Chickat's Avatar
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    For me the 2 hardest are feral druids and dks in general. I hate the rune system.
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  4. #104
    if you look at it say perfect rotations, favorable rng and excellent timings you could judge by simulationcraft as a basis.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by esatikkane View Post
    Dunno about others, but i don't really watch colors from affdots and the addon itself is not that helpful. For me it's just fun to watch your dot power compared to your dots now if you were to refresh them. I watch my procs and generally know my current dot powers, sure if you are "beginner" or "not so good player" it might take brains out of dotting and just react to affdot colors without understanding dotting on more deep level. And what i mean by "deep level" is that there are lot of micro decisions should you refresh your dots or not and how should you refresh them.
    Exactly this. the colors don't mean that much if you know what you're trying to do. Like I'm not going to refresh my dots if UVLS pops and the bars are orange/red? or if DS cooldown is coming up and my bars all say green (because of Jade spirit or something), I'm not going to blindly refresh that because I know a better scenario is just around the corner.

    And the colors don't mean anything if you're doing the SoulSwap cheese on Megaera or Council.

    Also, the post about Affliction being super RNG dependent is spot on. I can't speak for other classes, but given that our base resource is generated almost entirely by RNG it's likely that RNG affects Affliction more than most other class/specs.
    Last edited by schmearcampain; 2013-05-18 at 11:46 PM.

  6. #106
    Very hard to say, they've streamlined it a lot. All classes are at the point where you don't really gain very much - in terms of numbers at least - by being more skilled.

    It's becoming more and more about gear setup (was like that before as well, but then you could easily notice the difference between a mediocre player and a skilled player at a glance, now you practically need to look at logs of everything).
    Last edited by Fojos; 2013-05-19 at 02:53 AM.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by reflection View Post
    If I were to choose I would say Warlock. I play a Mage and only have one real dot
    /Sigh
    Nether Tempest or Living Bomb
    Ignite
    Pyroblast dot effect
    Combustion

    Last i checked that's 4 bud.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by esatikkane View Post
    Dunno about others, but i don't really watch colors from affdots and the addon itself is not that helpful. For me it's just fun to watch your dot power compared to your dots now if you were to refresh them. I watch my procs and generally know my current dot powers, sure if you are "beginner" or "not so good player" it might take brains out of dotting and just react to affdot colors without understanding dotting on more deep level. And what i mean by "deep level" is that there are lot of micro decisions should you refresh your dots or not and how should you refresh them.
    this. i think it's bad to follow that addon blindly, much better to see your buffs/procs as well as the addon and make your own decision based on the situation.

    Otherwise though, I think this is kind of a weird thread. If you wana see the top dps specs go look on simcraft and/or worldoflogs. After you know which specs are the best, of course then skill comes into play, but if you consider that skill is the same across the board, the better specs will do better.

  9. #109
    imo the hardest class to do good with is a warlock and the easiest is probably assasination rogue. I got both these classes along with mage and a shadow priest which I could put somewhere inbetween in a lock > shadow priest > mage > rogue relation. Although I guess regarding mage - if ua re fire or frost its pretty easy, but as arcane it might be abit tricky
    Last edited by Makarena; 2013-05-19 at 06:18 PM.

  10. #110

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by risingforce View Post
    Warlock, though Demonology is much more forgiving than Affliction and Destruction.
    In what world? Destruction is the spec you can get the least out compared to demo and aff. This is also due to UVLS, of course, but in general you can get much more out of demo if you play fantastically well than you get out of destro.

    In any case, it's really warlock, especially if you have UVLS.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-19 at 10:25 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Purpleisbetter View Post
    Dotter specs can be trivialized with Affdots for lock/boomies/spriest.

    You just need to react to the green light, its not hard, not hard at all. Its clunky with Wooshulay or the UVLS but not hard, that's sure.

    WW monks with RoRo trinket if u want something not so RNG, rewarding and totally akward: chi banking while energy starved must feel good <3
    Ah, and this is exactly why so many warlocks are bad. They either don't give two shits about their procs or they blindly follow affdots and then wonder why their dps is not so good.

    Affdots is great to do what you did before in your head, namely keep track of current dot power compared to what procs you have. It by no means takes out the skill of it. If you refresh wrongly, too early, or too late, green number or not, you just fucked your dps.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Gooby View Post
    heh, no

    sub rogues are pretty awful and punishing atm with positional requirement and bosses spazzing out (council, primordious, iron qon, lei shen) and does overall way less damage than combat/assassination
    It didn't ask what's the top dps spec, it asked what spec has the biggest difference between a shitty and a good player. In those cases i believe that sub rogues are a helluva difference.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by matters View Post
    We are not in the era of WoW where any class is John fucking Madden (like Feral druids were), although i am fairly certain that different classes will punish you more if you play incorrectly. Mages for instance have been called faceroll many times over the course of many expansions. The current Fire Mage model could be called faceroll as well since there really are only a few buttons you need to press in order to do DPS, however if you mess up or use your Combustion CD incorrectly or not at the optimal moment you will do far less damage than a mage who does use it correctly.

    ^Just for instance.
    I'd actually say that Feral is harder now than it was in T7-8. You've removed the 12 second duration Mangle buff and extended Savage Roar, but you've added Thrash at 15 second duration and DoC usage. If you have RoR, that's another element added to the rotation. Not to mention that now you have two viable builders (Mangle and Shred) and you actually have to make an informed decision to use one over the other.

  14. #114
    i'd say any tank, though prot paladin might be most fun due to 1sec gcd and more buttons in rotation than DK, monk and warrior.
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  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by zora View Post
    i'd say any tank, though prot paladin might be most fun due to 1sec gcd and more buttons in rotation than DK, monk and warrior.
    tanks skillcap is only important in low skill environment. as long as they dont fuck up moving the boss or losing threat, they can pretty much randomly push buttons. not saying there arent extremely poor tanks in high skilled guilds that hinder progress.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by kalo View Post
    tanks skillcap is only important in low skill environment. as long as they dont fuck up moving the boss or losing threat, they can pretty much randomly push buttons. not saying there arent extremely poor tanks in high skilled guilds that hinder progress.
    This has nothing to do with OP's question. It's not "when is coming close to skillcap needed" but "what's the higher skillcap class out here". Whether you play in LFR, in a top 10000 guild or in a top 10 guild doesn't change the class skillcap.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by kalo View Post
    tanks skillcap is only important in low skill environment. as long as they dont fuck up moving the boss or losing threat, they can pretty much randomly push buttons. not saying there arent extremely poor tanks in high skilled guilds that hinder progress.
    How do you figure that? Since tanks DPS rotation is as important, if not more important than any DPS's rotation. Especially considering as for most tanks, their rotation is directly linked to their rotation.

    Keeping yourself alive as a tank is much harder than keeping yourself alive as a dps.
    If you die as a tank it is most likely a direct wipe since it often result in secondary deaths before you can get ressed.
    All while focusing on your defensive CDs etc you also have to focus on your rotation.

    Not saying tanks have the highest skill cap, though it is very likely. Maybe healers.

    Saying that a tanks skillcap is only important in low skill environments could be applied to any dps class in the same fashion as a tank dps rotation is just as important as a tanks. If you are at that stage of the game that your tank is pressing random buttons and you are still killing the boss. If your tank was pressing the correct buttons you could instead have 1 dps and 1 healer pressing random buttons.
    That said, does not mean that some tanks have gotten completely carried in high tier guilds. I think that is mostly because people did not focus that much on tanks in MoP and a lot of the high tier guilds did not really realise how high potential the tanking classes had. The most famous example of this was probably Fraggoji in Paragon T14.
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  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yeahbaby View Post
    Heh, everyone saying spriests because of snapshot dots but no mention of moonkins or any other dot class/spec?

    Just the fact that moonkins have the exact same thing (snapshot dots) to worry about + eclipses inherently makes moonkins more complex and more difficult to play to perfection. Spriests only have to think about their proc durations and dot durations. Moonkins have to think about proc durations, dot durations, eclipses and possibly Incarnation + Celestial Alignment. The only cooldown spriests have is Power Infusion and they don't even use it for most of the fights.

    With that being said I have no idea who is the most difficult to play to perfection, but personally I don't see how anyone could think spriests would be highest on the list considering both moonkins and warlocks(aff/demo) have the exact same things to worry about + more.

    Without having played all the classes/specs at a high level, which makes this kind of meh but you asked, I'd say either of these specs could be the most difficult to play perfectly (highest reward for effort) ON ACTUAL BOSSES:
    Balance/feral Druid
    Demo/Affliction Lock (I've never played this spec so I don't know how much work goes into actually using the Metamorphis properly or what other CDs demo locks have so maybe they're actually super simple -_-)
    Fire/Arcane Mage

    If you just want the highest damage potential possible on most bosses you'd go with something like this:
    Affliction warlock > Demo&Destro/FireMage/Moonkin/Shadowpriest/AssassinationRogue > everything else
    clearly haven't read the thread. you're clueless aswel

  19. #119
    Bloodsail Admiral Ethes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbamboozal View Post
    I think it's a little tongue in cheek to say that while wearing a voidheart set on your avatar. I'm getting at the idea is that you are not just balancing mana anymore, but balancing mana against demonic fury/shards/burning embers. And that additional balance played against the mana pool, is what can make thinks a little sticky if you miss something. (of course teir set bonus makes that so silly to say, but before you get a 2set/4set, I stand on the above statement)

    OT I have one of each class, and have tried all specs, playing lock has been by far the most challenging and interesting for me.
    Given that, using affdots clears up MOST of that, but lining up snapshots in aff, and absolutely 'getting it right' every time, in demo, is at least 'enough' to keep you awake and thinking. Destro feels pretty straight ahead to me.
    You're correct of course! Throwing out chaos bolts, etc. at the right time is important and having them up when you need them and managing embers/shards/fury is what it comes down to for warlocks. However, I was answering the OP about mana management which I still feel is pretty much none-existant. The dps classes that I play at the moment (lock & ret paladin) have no issues with mana. But you're absolutely correct when saying that there is more to resource management than mana. Something I simply overlooked..
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  20. #120
    Wot about MM Hunters? They have high Focus regeneration from bonus Haste, having to cast a Focus-gaining Ability two times, and from sometimes casting Focus-free Shots, thus being left behind with a narrow Timeframe to dump their focus for their Abilities so I believe that MM Hunters have a high Skill cap.
    The only problem is high Reward because even playing MM Hunter in a very skillfull way does not yield competetive DPS.

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