View Poll Results: How would you like to handle the "gap" between LFR and Normal raiding?

Voters
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  • 10m easier then 25m, drops lower ilvl loot.

    305 40.29%
  • Nerf normal modes (Like Dragonsoul)

    109 14.40%
  • Gradually increasing debuff that nerfs the raid over time (like Dragonsoul)

    188 24.83%
  • An "Easy" difficulty that is harder then LFR, but easier then Normal.

    155 20.48%
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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by nemro82 View Post
    I would like that, but problem is people still think normal = avarage, and they think they are better then they trully are, and wouldn't want to run easy. Constant whine for nerfs would continue .
    While that is probably true, the complaints would probably come from a very small majority. Those of us good enough for Normal/Heroic wouldn't care (or at least shouldn't care, I'm sure some elitist jackoffs would have a problem with it somehow) about easy existing.

    And as for those that "Easy" would be targeted for - I know a lot of these players, they are the B team in my guild that can't kill Horridon. Have some other friends in a similar situation. They aren't looking for a high level challenge. They are looking for content that they can do with their friends/family. Normal is too hard for them, and honestly LFR wouldn't be terrible, except that they have to deal with the other people in LFR, who routinely ruin the experience.

    Going back to the previous tier could be a solution, but that gets boring fast. The B team in my guild was stuck on Garalon in 5.1, and then cleared all of Tier 14 the first week of 5.2 when it got nerfed. So they can do Tier 14 with their eyes closed, but can't even come close to making a good attempt on Horridon. There needs to be something between "brain dead easy" and "untouchable" for groups at that kind of skill level.

    The people I'm talking about are fully aware that they are bad at the game, and don't care that they're bad. They just want to play it, and play it with people they know, and right now the game doesn't facilitate that. It would help stop the bleeding subs from casual/bad players, and it SHOULD have no effect on normal/heroic players unless they're just assholes who think the content everyone pays for should only be for them.

    Being a heroic raider myself, I don't give a shit what lesser skilled guilds are doing, it doesn't affect me.
    Last edited by Halifax; 2013-05-19 at 01:38 AM.

  2. #222

  3. #223
    keep as is, content already gets / will get nerfed via ilvl upgrades

  4. #224
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    I'm thinking that this "unannounced feature" will be something like Openraid/Oqueue except its base-blizz UI. Go in, start up a raid, advertise for it, without having to leave WoW. Kinda like the old LFR feature back in wrath, except A) More upfront in the UI, instead of hidden away, and B) Cross-realm, all the realms.
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  5. #225
    I never experience normal easier than they are right now. Dumbing them down even futher would be devastating. No boss in normal tot takes more than 10-15 tries to defeat. If there has to any feel of accomplishment attached to normal modes they should leave them as they are-

  6. #226
    There is only a skill gap in between those really. Tbh they overtuned normal this time around (which I personally liked) but NM are easy. Maybe what "could" make the NM mofe easier for those who have some trouble would be to be less linear : this way if you struggle on a boss, don't have the comp, availiable healers that night and so on (which is a real problem in 10s) you could chose what path to go and skil 'harder' bosses. Might help out easy modes.

  7. #227
    Keyboard Turner
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    IMO the raids are fine as they are. You don't need that much gear to start progressing through ToT especially if you valor cap every week.
    The only options I sort of agree with are the gradual nerfs over time. It seemed to work well in dragon soul by letting farm bosses get farmed faster and gives a small boost to get groups over their current wall.
    I don't like making 10M and 25M not equal. My realm is small pop and its very difficult to put together 25 people with the same schedule without having 1/4 of the raid be complete carries.
    I wouldn't mind easy mode that much if it shared a lockout with normal modes. If it didn't share a lockout like LFR it would feel too mandatory.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by cabyio View Post
    All I know is the lead encounter designer has said they want to offer something to the people not currently being served and I would much rather them make a different difficulty then mess with normal. I like normals current difficulty.
    Funny they are pushing content faster because they know progression guilds are downing content or almost done with it. Seems to me they are pushing raids out faster so people have more content and to me that isnt catering to the casuals like some are insiuating.

  9. #229
    None of the above. There is no gap. I do LFR but will never cross to normals because i don't like any of the raiders i have met and am unwilling to swap a game i love for a chore i have to do.

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Manhands View Post
    You lost me at "balance with 3 who has 3".
    I meant balance with 25 who has 3 difficulties.
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  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Thetruth1400 View Post
    Vanilla went from 60 - 92 for level 60 gear or 32 ilvls
    TBC went from 95 - 164 for level 70 gear or 69 ilvls
    WotLK went from 187 - 284 for level 80 gear or 97 ilvls
    Cataclysm went from 312 - 416 for level 85 gear or 104 ilvls
    MoP went from 429 - 541 in ToT alone for level 90 or 112 ilvls already.

    Since we have at least one more raid, that number will be much more. The ilvl hyperinflation is a direct result of too many divisions as is.
    Nice arbitrary numbers there bud! not sure where you got most of them tho.
    vanilla is wrong, ZG had 65+ilev drops, MC had 66+
    tBC is wrong, kara/t4 epics were 115 ilevel, boosted mid 2.0 patch from 110
    LK is wrong, raid drops were 200+
    cata is wrong, raid drops were 359+
    MoP is wrong, raid drops are 476+

    also why do you comparte in absolute numbers and not in ilevel % increase?
    vanilla 65-92 - 41,5% increase
    tBC 115-164 - 42% increase
    LK 200-284 - 42% increase
    cata 359-416 - 16% increase
    MoP 476-541 - 13,5% insrease so far.

    see how it suddenly doesnt look like ilevels are hyperinflating in MoP? Only thing that is inflating are the formulaes for %increase of stats per ilevel, which are probably too steep by now.

  12. #232
    I sincerely hope they do not go back to the ICC model. I'm a 10 man raider and enjoy the current level of challenge that it gives. If they made the 10 mans easier again I would feel forced into doing a style of raiding that I don't enjoy just to feel like I wasn't gimping my character out.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarevokcz View Post
    MoP is wrong, raid drops are 476+
    489 is the lowest raid drop.
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    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  14. #234
    The Lightbringer slime's Avatar
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    In dragon soul - I saw this gap, was huge (before nerf). I expected the same in MoP. I was wrong - there is almost no difference between Normal and LFR raiding in MoP. The one main thing is you have to actually pay attention to mechanics in normal - or they kill you quick. But the damage requirements seemed very similar - bosses went down at almost the same time frame pace as LFR. Again, it only seemed that the fires on the ground/the adds/the aoes were much stronger in Normal and would kill you if you didn't react quick.

    So in answer to your question, I'd say have people worry more about getting mechanics right and not dying to them - before worrying about maximizing dps. Things become more difficult if you are bring 10 complete first timers to normal, from LFR, than if you are say bringing 4 noobs from LFR and 6 who already know normal.

  15. #235
    Make normal mode easier ultimately solves very little, as the current complaint crowd will simply shift gears and start yelling that heroics are too hard. Why anyone thinks this isn't a playerbase trend by now is beyond me.
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  16. #236
    none of the four choices
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    The problem is warriors are not easy to kill like we were in cata and people are mad at that
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    Brian may answer differently, but I would say mages are hard to counter for average players but easy for great players.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Choptimus View Post
    I'd like for players to get better. Normals are not "too hard".
    Its not rocketscience.
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  18. #238
    10m easier then 25m, drops lower ilvl loot.
    The people voting for this are 25 man raiders who don't like 10 mans getting the same loot. They're not the target audience for this vote.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Pasture View Post
    The people voting for this are 25 man raiders who don't like 10 mans getting the same loot. They're not the target audience for this vote.
    I voted for it and I raid 10 man. I never had so much fun raiding as in WotLK. It was perfect raid difficulty setups.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  20. #240
    What gap? If anything lfr is too close. Lfr is not for raiders, it's for the people who didn't raid until it was introduced, people doing normal shouldn't have to do it unless they couldn't kill a boss (just like with heroic raiders doing normal bosses).

    The only problem with difficulty this tier is the balance. I mean who the fk at blizzard thought it was a good idea to have the second half of the raid be easier than the first?

    Basically what they should do is smooth out progression so the next boss is always harder than the previous, make it so you can't switch up in difficulty from one boss from the next, and make it so you can't get loot off the same boss in both lfr and normal/heroic. You don't fix this problem by adding more and more difficulty settings, you fix it by making the difficulty ramp smoother on the settings we have.

    Perspective: our guild composition is terrible, we have 3 spriests, we raid once a week and not even every week. But we're not bad players. We're currently working on N durumu (40% after 30 mins working on it). This is about where we should be to finish the raid before 5.4. The only way to not finish the tier in time is to be worse than us; to be very casual, have a shit comp, AND be bad players. That's how it should be, if you're useless you shouldn't be finishing - you can already see all the bosses in lfr.

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