View Poll Results: How would you like to handle the "gap" between LFR and Normal raiding?

Voters
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  • 10m easier then 25m, drops lower ilvl loot.

    305 40.29%
  • Nerf normal modes (Like Dragonsoul)

    109 14.40%
  • Gradually increasing debuff that nerfs the raid over time (like Dragonsoul)

    188 24.83%
  • An "Easy" difficulty that is harder then LFR, but easier then Normal.

    155 20.48%
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  1. #1021
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    If everyone is on an equal footing and 75% of the people trying normal mode fail, then there is something wrong with normal mode, not the people.
    That is such a ridiculous statement. What are you spewing out onto this forum?
    There is something wrong with new raiders nowadays. They are not being taught to try their hardest and perform to their maximum capabilities. Because Blizzard made Cata and WotLK easy mode for raiders like you, now a lot of the raiders are just terrible players who can barely go 2/12 in ToT, let alone clear any heroic modes. When I joined this game back in TBC, I always thought to myself how if I kept pushing myself to my limits on my character I can go raid BT and other high end raids. In TBC, all I ended up clearing was Karazhan. In WotLK, I cleared a lot of the content, including 4/5 H ToGC on 25m, and 11/12 H ICC 25m. And wanna know why? Because back when I joined, there wasn't any of this LF-whatever BS that plagues the community. If you wanted to get anywhere, you had to work for it. But now Blizzard shot themselves in the foot by targeting the casual demographic, because it causes new players to stay bad, and encourages people not to learn from their mistakes if they're gonna get their shiny pixels at the end of the day no matter how terrible they are.
    In honor of all the kids bringing up my avatar:
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    Wow, for someone with a trollface avatar, you are pretty bad at this.

  2. #1022
    Quote Originally Posted by Arothand View Post
    Other than the last two isn't that how it worked in the "golden age" aka TBC? Poach from other guilds or halt progression and go back to older content.

    Still the attitude of so many here just stinks. "If you can't clear it maybe raiding isn't for you". Yeah that's a good way to piss players off.
    It's pretty much Blizzard's mantra, too, it'd seem. Their idea is to shovel everyone into LFR, and cater to a minority.

  3. #1023
    Quote Originally Posted by crakerjack View Post
    If people can't even do normal raiding... why should I care about them? Their level of skill is way lower than mine so I never have to worry about them... not to mention bad players make PvP more fun. Everyone is ripping on bad players, but would WoW really be fun if everyone was skilled? Not really. It's not my fault people don't know their classes and use only their pve rotation rather than every ability that their class possesses.
    And that's the attitude of somebody who isn't confident in their own skill. I prefer to be evenly matched with my opponents because I like competitiveness. Farmville and other casual games are all over the Internet. Seriously, nobody's there to outskill you, so you can feel like youre the best player there is.
    In honor of all the kids bringing up my avatar:
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    Wow, for someone with a trollface avatar, you are pretty bad at this.

  4. #1024
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    If everyone is on an equal footing and 75% of the people trying normal mode fail, then there is something wrong with normal mode, not the people.
    Ion has speculated that there may be an audience for LFR difficulty for organized groups. Maybe Blizzard is thinking of a 3 tier difficulty model for 5.4 raid. Perhaps Blizzard will introduce easy mode afterall. Having more difficulty level and letting player choose which "league" they want to play in would be healthy for the game imo.
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  5. #1025
    Quote Originally Posted by fangless View Post
    But the first tier wasn't hard, so you can't really say the players had no where to go back to in preparation. If you couldn't do T14, which many players did in heroic blues, then... I'd argue that raiding just isn't for you. Flat out.
    T14 provided a significant challenge for a significant portion of the playerbase. You and I finding it easy is completely irrelevant.
    And locking such a large portion of players out of content is generally a bad thing to do. "Get better or GTFO" hasn't proven to produce any results.

  6. #1026
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevkul View Post
    T14 provided a significant challenge for a significant portion of the playerbase. You and I finding it easy is completely irrelevant.
    And locking such a large portion of players out of content is generally a bad thing to do. "Get better or GTFO" hasn't proven to produce any results.
    But the content is there with LFR. Just scaled-down numbers and gear drops, but the content is still there to see. And if players really want to see Normal Mode content, then maybe they should step up their own game instead of complaining that they can't kill things because their skill level is low.
    In honor of all the kids bringing up my avatar:
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    Wow, for someone with a trollface avatar, you are pretty bad at this.

  7. #1027
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Any spell can proc Arcane Missiles, so FFB is intended. Arcane Missiles is in the core abilities tab.

    Mage bombs aren't in the core abilities tab, and hence aren't ever supposed to be used.

    Pick one.
    FFB is not intended in anyway and no one could rationally justify it ever. And if you read the spec's passive you can see that Arcane charges are an important part of the playstyle and they only get generated by AB. Anyone with some kind of brain matter would figure out what spells he's supposed to use without ever alt-tabbing out of the game. The only thing you would need to check an outside source for is for optimisation, which you don't even really need unless pushing for world firsts. Properly executing raid mechanics is much more important than raw throughput.

    Mage bombs are a talented spell that cause damage with low maintenance. Again, you don't need an EJ post to tell you that you are supposed to use it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Having an LFR10N mode that sits between LFR and Normal would get far more exposure and would (hopefully) give an achievement that raiding guilds would actually value, such that recruitment would be a whole lot easier.
    Both ideas are essentially the same.

  8. #1028
    Quote Originally Posted by Melkandor View Post
    But the content is there with LFR. Just scaled-down numbers and gear drops, but the content is still there to see. And if players really want to see Normal Mode content, then maybe they should step up their own game instead of complaining that they can't kill things because their skill level is low.
    just stop it, it's pointless. Me and few came with this logic very often, but no - they dont want to get better, all they want is to hand them gear on silver platter, and pat on the back, how good raiders they are. All for nothing, thats their motto.
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  9. #1029
    The Lightbringer Injin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melkandor View Post
    That is such a ridiculous statement. What are you spewing out onto this forum?
    it's called common sense.
    There is something wrong with new raiders nowadays. They are not being taught to try their hardest and perform to their maximum capabilities.
    They never were. In old wow this meant they never raided. In new wow, they get to do LFR, previously on new wow they got to do normal modes (in ICC and DS.)
    Because Blizzard made Cata and WotLK easy mode for raiders like you, now a lot of the raiders are just terrible players who can barely go 2/12 in ToT, let alone clear any heroic modes.
    Wotlk was accessible, cata was not (until they lost millions of subs and nerfed FL and then released the crowd pleasing DS.
    When I joined this game back in TBC, I always thought to myself how if I kept pushing myself to my limits on my character I can go raid BT and other high end raids. In TBC, all I ended up clearing was Karazhan. In WotLK, I cleared a lot of the content, including 4/5 H ToGC on 25m, and 11/12 H ICC 25m. And wanna know why? Because back when I joined, there wasn't any of this LF-whatever BS that plagues the community. If you wanted to get anywhere, you had to work for it. But now Blizzard shot themselves in the foot by targeting the casual demographic, because it causes new players to stay bad, and encourages people not to learn from their mistakes if they're gonna get their shiny pixels at the end of the day no matter how terrible they are.
    You might have done that, next to no one else did. The argument here is that people who want a mode of content that they can do in a group without becoming either a sociopath guild hopper or an aspergers sufferer level theory crafter should be in place.
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  10. #1030
    Quote Originally Posted by nemro82 View Post
    just stop it, it's pointless. Me and few came with this logic very often, but no - they dont want to get better, all they want is to hand them gear on silver platter, and pat on the back, how good raiders they are. All for nothing, thats their motto.
    Well it needs to change, because that's what's going to end up causing this game to collapse around itself.
    In honor of all the kids bringing up my avatar:
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    Wow, for someone with a trollface avatar, you are pretty bad at this.

  11. #1031
    The Lightbringer Injin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melkandor View Post
    But the content is there with LFR. Just scaled-down numbers and gear drops, but the content is still there to see. And if players really want to see Normal Mode content, then maybe they should step up their own game instead of complaining that they can't kill things because their skill level is low.
    The game has heroic mode for those who want a challenge. No need to make normal mode a complete ballache.

    Pretty simple.
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  12. #1032
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    If everyone is on an equal footing and 75% of the people trying normal mode fail, then there is something wrong with normal mode, not the people.
    Source of information?

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-29 at 07:26 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    The game has heroic mode for those who want a challenge. No need to make normal mode a complete ballache.

    Pretty simple.
    So, we got LFR that is barely even counts as content. We got T14 that is easy. We got normals that require medium effort and we get heroic for a challenge. Why remove the medium effort mode? Makes no sense.
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    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  13. #1033
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    it's called common sense.


    They never were. In old wow this meant they never raided. In new wow, they get to do LFR, previously on new wow they got to do normal modes (in ICC and DS.)


    Wotlk was accessible, cata was not (until they lost millions of subs and nerfed FL and then released the crowd pleasing DS.


    You might have done that, next to no one else did. The argument here is that people who want a mode of content that they can do in a group without becoming either a sociopath guild hopper or an aspergers sufferer level theory crafter should be in place.
    I don't see any common sense in any of your posts. And stop talking about this old/new WoW, to me we're in World of Warcraft: Mists of Pandaria, not 'new' WoW. Are you just so thick headed that you can't see why LFR is bad for new subscribers to the game? A team of game developers shouldn't be making the game easier and easier for players who don't have the motivation to teach themselves to become any better.
    In honor of all the kids bringing up my avatar:
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    Wow, for someone with a trollface avatar, you are pretty bad at this.

  14. #1034
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melkandor View Post
    But the content is there with LFR. Just scaled-down numbers and gear drops, but the content is still there to see. And if players really want to see Normal Mode content, then maybe they should step up their own game instead of complaining that they can't kill things because their skill level is low.
    How many gd times must it be stated LFR IS NOT A VIABLE OPTION for close knit 10M average guilds??

    Stop bringing this bullshit up. It has already been argued and it is not what we are talking about.
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  15. #1035
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    The game has heroic mode for those who want a challenge. No need to make normal mode a complete ballache.

    Pretty simple.
    And LFR is made for those who don't want any sort of difficulty at all. Normal is only a ballache if you refuse to learn to play better.

    Pretty simple.
    In honor of all the kids bringing up my avatar:
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    Wow, for someone with a trollface avatar, you are pretty bad at this.

  16. #1036
    Quote Originally Posted by Melkandor View Post
    That is such a ridiculous statement. What are you spewing out onto this forum?
    There is something wrong with new raiders nowadays. They are not being taught to try their hardest and perform to their maximum capabilities. Because Blizzard made Cata and WotLK easy mode for raiders like you, now a lot of the raiders are just terrible players who can barely go 2/12 in ToT, let alone clear any heroic modes. When I joined this game back in TBC, I always thought to myself how if I kept pushing myself to my limits on my character I can go raid BT and other high end raids. In TBC, all I ended up clearing was Karazhan. In WotLK, I cleared a lot of the content, including 4/5 H ToGC on 25m, and 11/12 H ICC 25m. And wanna know why? Because back when I joined, there wasn't any of this LF-whatever BS that plagues the community. If you wanted to get anywhere, you had to work for it. But now Blizzard shot themselves in the foot by targeting the casual demographic, because it causes new players to stay bad, and encourages people not to learn from their mistakes if they're gonna get their shiny pixels at the end of the day no matter how terrible they are.
    Not everyone wants to play at harder difficulties. Go google "Conan Aboslution review" and you can see the audience for easy difficulty. Some people are fine not improving and just overpower the boss with enough gears. They are happy just to hangout with guildies and kill some bosses like the original ICC10. I really don't understand why this desire is so difficult to understand.

    "Just quit, you are terrible" is a valid way to handle the situation but I personally think that's a pretty terrible way to make wow better.
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  17. #1037
    Quote Originally Posted by Arothand View Post
    How many gd times must it be stated LFR IS NOT A VIABLE OPTION for close knit 10M average guilds??

    Stop bringing this bullshit up. It has already been argued and it is not what we are talking about.
    For close knit 10m guilds they can try to progress on bosses in Normal, but LFR is still there to see the content.

    Point you were trying to make?

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-29 at 12:29 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by wow2011 View Post
    "Just quit, you are terrible" is a valid way to handle the situation but I personally think that's a pretty terrible way to make wow better.
    If people keep telling others to just quit, then the game won't become any better. It'll become progressively worse over time.
    In honor of all the kids bringing up my avatar:
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    Wow, for someone with a trollface avatar, you are pretty bad at this.

  18. #1038
    Quote Originally Posted by Melkandor View Post
    But the content is there with LFR. Just scaled-down numbers and gear drops, but the content is still there to see. And if players really want to see Normal Mode content, then maybe they should step up their own game instead of complaining that they can't kill things because their skill level is low.
    Please don't try to insinuate LFR is anywhere near actual raiding content. The only thing LFR is good for is seeing the content, nothing more. And you have to put up with a toxic atmosphere to do it too.

    Also, it's not about anyone raider being bad, it's about entire guilds who don't discriminate against skill that are out of content to run while they could previously run 10-man Normals in Wrath.

  19. #1039
    The Lightbringer Injin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Source of information?
    The word normal.
    So, we got LFR that is barely even counts as content. We got T14 that is easy. We got normals that require medium effort and we get heroic for a challenge. Why remove the medium effort mode? Makes no sense.
    T14 isn't easy, it's still difficult.

    Why not remove the hard mode (which serves very few people) and put in more lower difficulties (which will server many more) ?
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  20. #1040
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevkul View Post
    Please don't try to insinuate LFR is anywhere near actual raiding content. The only thing LFR is good for is seeing the content, nothing more. And you have to put up with a toxic atmosphere to do it too.

    Also, it's not about anyone raider being bad, it's about entire guilds who don't discriminate against skill that are out of content to run while they could previously run 10-man Normals in Wrath.
    That's exactly what I stated though, that LFR is only there to see the content.
    Then maybe we need to go back to the Wrath model of raiding, it seemed to be the pinnacle of raiding in World of Warcraft history. Everybody and there mom seemed to be raiding at least something back then, whether it be 10m ToC all the way to H ICC.
    In honor of all the kids bringing up my avatar:
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    Wow, for someone with a trollface avatar, you are pretty bad at this.

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