View Poll Results: How would you like to handle the "gap" between LFR and Normal raiding?

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  • 10m easier then 25m, drops lower ilvl loot.

    305 40.29%
  • Nerf normal modes (Like Dragonsoul)

    109 14.40%
  • Gradually increasing debuff that nerfs the raid over time (like Dragonsoul)

    188 24.83%
  • An "Easy" difficulty that is harder then LFR, but easier then Normal.

    155 20.48%
  1. #1681
    *Does Happy Pandaren Dance*

    Blizzard's solution is all I wanted, even stuff I didn't know I wanted but already feel is mandatory for any new MMO to get my business.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-07 at 03:58 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    What about making flex crossrealm, ...
    Flex is cross realm already. Dunno about the chat, sounds like some sort of Raid-Forming Lobby?

  2. #1682
    Quote Originally Posted by jsavigny View Post
    Make it shared with N, because if they make it share lockout with LFR, the queue shall be terrible.
    It shares a lockout with neither. Did you even read the front page?

  3. #1683
    Quote Originally Posted by Darmalus View Post
    Flex is cross realm already. Dunno about the chat, sounds like some sort of Raid-Forming Lobby?
    A way to creating crossrealm pugs, yes, without having to use openraid or logging around different servers with alts.
    This shoul be bandaid fix to that blizzar refuses to merge dead servers.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

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  4. #1684
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    What about making flex crossrealm, aswell as adding a crossrealm LFG chat/system, similar to how you could sign up for heroics in early WotLK, only crossrealm, you could get a menu where people sign as tanks/healers/dps and write a comment.
    See that would have been fantastic just before DS LFR. But as Blizzard would say, it's hard to go backwards. Taking away a simple and effective queuing system for a manually grouping system just doesn't make sense in game development and the players who like queuing will not like it. I hate queuing myself but if the only raid I could do was a LFR variant where I had to "sign up" and wait on hours only to get rejected for not having gear or ach (or having the group fail) would not get me excited.

    When I think of that I just think of the 5.5k gs requirements to get into VoA runs.

    edit; But I would be A LOT happier if they could just share the LFR and Flexiraid lockouts. I really want to understand their reasoning behind them not having shared locks. I mean they must have a good reason right?

  5. #1685
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Looks like it's designed with pugging in mind.
    It really does and I was hoping for something like this. I just feel like the timing would have been better in Cata. The PuG population on high population realms now are even lower than they was back in Cata.

    This would go nicely for those small or somewhat broken up guilds or very small groups of friends that want to tag along with other small groups given the flexibility in size as long as you meet the main rolls.
    Quote Originally Posted by rcgn View Post
    See that would have been fantastic just before DS LFR. But as Blizzard would say, it's hard to go backwards. Taking away a simple and effective queuing system for a manually grouping system just doesn't make sense in game development and the players who like queuing will not like it.
    This is part of why I feel like the system is too late. I feel that had this system been launched in place of LFR then there might not have been an LFR. Kind of like the duel spec system that the developers mentioned might not have gotten launched if the current talent point system had been in place.
    Quote Originally Posted by rcgn View Post

    edit; But I would be A LOT happier if they could just share the LFR and Flexiraid lockouts. I really want to understand their reasoning behind them not having shared locks. I mean they must have a good reason right?

    I think it is like how another poster in another thread mentioned about population split being an issue. By sharing lockouts you keep players and in particular experienced players from filling queues and helping to keep runs smooth aka carring. With Flex raid there might be more of a chance that someone who runs LFR might want to do a Flex raid and then at the start of the week has to make a choice of one or the other and maybe hold out for a Flex group to the point that they might not even have time to do LFR if they fail to find a group.
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    A way to creating crossrealm pugs, yes, without having to use openraid or logging around different servers with alts.
    This shoul be bandaid fix to that blizzar refuses to merge dead servers.
    Battle.net is apparently getting a launcher. There is a lot that can be done with the system on Blizzards end. Given Blizzard pace and how little they have done though we the players might end up just sticking with third party options that Blizzard might then get around to copying while hopefully not making a shitty copy that lacks functionality.
    Last edited by nekobaka; 2013-06-07 at 05:24 AM.

  6. #1686
    Scarab Lord Amulree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by araine View Post
    It isnt tuned or itemized for the elite guilds. you shouldnt have to worry about that mom and pop guilds finally might be able to take the 14 people they have online and kill a couple bosses really if you feel your supremacy is threatened by mom and pop guilds getting to down a couple bosses for fun?
    That's not even remotely what he implied.

    Anyone arguing that "if you don't want to run it you don't have to" should take a look around the forums. The RNG system of endgame looting shoves people into more and more content that they might not necessarily run because it's the statistically best way of alleviating streaks of bad luck.

    As to the criticism:

    LFR/Flexi share a lockout, as do normal/heroic. I'm not sure those complaining about the queue have a valid point, given that a resurgence in PuG content will remove the need for LFR almost entirely.
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  7. #1687
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
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    I'm disappointed that it's not soloqueuable and that the minimum players required is ten. I mean, it's a step in the right direction, I just don't want it to have a similar uptake to Rated BGs.
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  8. #1688
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    I'm disappointed that it's not soloqueuable and that the minimum players required is ten. I mean, it's a step in the right direction, I just don't want it to have a similar uptake to Rated BGs.
    I suspect they'd have a hard time scaling down raid mechanics to fewer than ten players.

    Pretty optimistic about this feature. You can see they've been considering many angles here.
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  9. #1689
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    I suspect they'd have a hard time scaling down raid mechanics to fewer than ten players.
    Ten-man raids with no-showers get cancelled, 25-mans relatively unaffected as they drop from Normal to Flex.

    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Pretty optimistic about this feature. You can see they've been considering many angles here.
    Agree, could do with some tweaking though.
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  10. #1690
    Herald of the Titans nemro82's Avatar
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    so the gap was just filled for you by Blizzard with Flex, enjoy
    or have you started bitching that it drops lower ilvl gear then normals already?
    my PSN ID - Kobold_Rider

  11. #1691
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    No Gap? Make the encounters exactly the same. Give no benefit to the LFR raiders. Let it only be computer matchmaking for raiding. Done.

  12. #1692
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nemro82 View Post
    so the gap was just filled for you by Blizzard with Flex, enjoy
    or have you started bitching that it drops lower ilvl gear then normals already?
    At least with the Flex achievement you can get into Normals.
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  13. #1693
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Ten-man raids with no-showers get cancelled, 25-mans relatively unaffected as they drop from Normal to Flex.
    Since the difficulty is between LFR and normals, there's no shared lockout between normal mode, loot is personal and it's open to cross-realm, 10s are encouraged to bring friends or pug some instead of cancelling. It's just like WotLK 10s, without the loot drama but with cross-realm and flexible raid size option; I'm not sure what else Blizzard can do really...

    I think it's a nice solution for that niche (although I am going to hate doing that mode too to get trinkets, tiers and missing pieces; but on the bright side I can do it with friends who only do LFR).
    Last edited by laplacedemon; 2013-06-07 at 12:38 PM.

  14. #1694
    Quote Originally Posted by nemro82 View Post
    so the gap was just filled for you by Blizzard with Flex, enjoy
    or have you started bitching that it drops lower ilvl gear then normals already?
    nah they are going to complain about this once the flex feature goes live. Dont forget the bitching about "heroic mode being to hard" to!

    Ever since Blizzard decided to share lockout with 10 & 25 they dig themself a big hole. Now they are trying to get up from it.

    Will the HUGE masses that does LFR cheer about it? I dont know, I suspect the 0 effort you need to do in LFR wont help and dont forget: Throught LFR you already get to see everything inside the instance. For many lfr people, this wont help anything, cause they have already seen content.
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  15. #1695
    Herald of the Titans Otiswhitaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    At least with the Flex achievement you can get into Normals.
    I'll believe that when it happens.

  16. #1696
    Quote Originally Posted by nemro82 View Post
    so the gap was just filled for you by Blizzard with Flex, enjoy
    or have you started bitching that it drops lower ilvl gear then normals already?
    Nope, not bitching about that at all. Rather optimistic about how this will work out.

    I am looking forward to the decline of complaining about recruiting, when people who have pugged into Flex mode start applying to the normal mode guilds. Smaller step up is smaller.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-07 at 01:40 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by laplacedemon View Post
    I think it's a nice solution for that niche (although I am going to hate doing that mode too to get trinkets, tiers and missing pieces; but on the bright side I can do it with friends who only do LFR).
    I think Flex mode will become the usual way normal mode raid guilds conduct auditions for potential raiders, and a way to advertise for new raiders. Huge implications for recruiting.
    Last edited by Osmeric; 2013-06-07 at 01:41 PM.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    I hate these casual Fridays ruining it for real Fridays.

  17. #1697
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    At least with the Flex achievement you can get into Normals.
    Depends on how easy it is. To early to tell now. If Flex = new LFR, then flex achievements will still be irrelevant for normals.
    If flex is similar to the previous tiers normals, then yes, maybe.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  18. #1698
    Herald of the Titans nemro82's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Nope, not bitching about that at all. Rather optimistic about how this will work out.
    yes I agree, it's going to be great way to bring more players to normal raids.
    ATM it's quite hard bring few new players to normal 10 man to gear them up, but with flex and not shared lockout we can do this easily.
    If only loot distrubution was different :/
    my PSN ID - Kobold_Rider

  19. #1699
    Quote Originally Posted by nemro82 View Post
    yes I agree, it's going to be great way to bring more players to normal raids.
    ATM it's quite hard bring few new players to normal 10 man to gear them up, but with flex and not shared lockout we can do this easily.
    If only loot distrubution was different :/
    Loot distribution is fine. Stops any ninja-looting that may occur. People would be far more pissed if it was ML/need + greed systems in place. The loot system is probably the best compromise of all the decisions they had.

  20. #1700
    Herald of the Titans nemro82's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    Loot distribution is fine. Stops any ninja-looting that may occur. People would be far more pissed if it was ML/need + greed systems in place. The loot system is probably the best compromise of all the decisions they had.
    for pugs yes I agree, but for guilds wanting to gear up certain members it does kinda sucks, I wish there was a switch to change it if you like.
    my PSN ID - Kobold_Rider

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