View Poll Results: How would you like to handle the "gap" between LFR and Normal raiding?

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  • 10m easier then 25m, drops lower ilvl loot.

    305 40.29%
  • Nerf normal modes (Like Dragonsoul)

    109 14.40%
  • Gradually increasing debuff that nerfs the raid over time (like Dragonsoul)

    188 24.83%
  • An "Easy" difficulty that is harder then LFR, but easier then Normal.

    155 20.48%
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  1. #1701
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nemro82 View Post
    so the gap was just filled for you by Blizzard with Flex, enjoy
    or have you started bitching that it drops lower ilvl gear then normals already?
    At least with the Flex achievement you can get into Normals.
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  2. #1702
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Ten-man raids with no-showers get cancelled, 25-mans relatively unaffected as they drop from Normal to Flex.
    Since the difficulty is between LFR and normals, there's no shared lockout between normal mode, loot is personal and it's open to cross-realm, 10s are encouraged to bring friends or pug some instead of cancelling. It's just like WotLK 10s, without the loot drama but with cross-realm and flexible raid size option; I'm not sure what else Blizzard can do really...

    I think it's a nice solution for that niche (although I am going to hate doing that mode too to get trinkets, tiers and missing pieces; but on the bright side I can do it with friends who only do LFR).
    Last edited by laplacedemon; 2013-06-07 at 12:38 PM.

  3. #1703
    Quote Originally Posted by nemro82 View Post
    so the gap was just filled for you by Blizzard with Flex, enjoy
    or have you started bitching that it drops lower ilvl gear then normals already?
    nah they are going to complain about this once the flex feature goes live. Dont forget the bitching about "heroic mode being to hard" to!

    Ever since Blizzard decided to share lockout with 10 & 25 they dig themself a big hole. Now they are trying to get up from it.

    Will the HUGE masses that does LFR cheer about it? I dont know, I suspect the 0 effort you need to do in LFR wont help and dont forget: Throught LFR you already get to see everything inside the instance. For many lfr people, this wont help anything, cause they have already seen content.
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  4. #1704
    Pandaren Monk Otiswhitaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    At least with the Flex achievement you can get into Normals.
    I'll believe that when it happens.

  5. #1705
    Quote Originally Posted by nemro82 View Post
    so the gap was just filled for you by Blizzard with Flex, enjoy
    or have you started bitching that it drops lower ilvl gear then normals already?
    Nope, not bitching about that at all. Rather optimistic about how this will work out.

    I am looking forward to the decline of complaining about recruiting, when people who have pugged into Flex mode start applying to the normal mode guilds. Smaller step up is smaller.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-07 at 01:40 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by laplacedemon View Post
    I think it's a nice solution for that niche (although I am going to hate doing that mode too to get trinkets, tiers and missing pieces; but on the bright side I can do it with friends who only do LFR).
    I think Flex mode will become the usual way normal mode raid guilds conduct auditions for potential raiders, and a way to advertise for new raiders. Huge implications for recruiting.
    Last edited by Osmeric; 2013-06-07 at 01:41 PM.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
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  6. #1706
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    At least with the Flex achievement you can get into Normals.
    Depends on how easy it is. To early to tell now. If Flex = new LFR, then flex achievements will still be irrelevant for normals.
    If flex is similar to the previous tiers normals, then yes, maybe.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  7. #1707
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Nope, not bitching about that at all. Rather optimistic about how this will work out.
    yes I agree, it's going to be great way to bring more players to normal raids.
    ATM it's quite hard bring few new players to normal 10 man to gear them up, but with flex and not shared lockout we can do this easily.
    If only loot distrubution was different :/

  8. #1708
    Quote Originally Posted by nemro82 View Post
    yes I agree, it's going to be great way to bring more players to normal raids.
    ATM it's quite hard bring few new players to normal 10 man to gear them up, but with flex and not shared lockout we can do this easily.
    If only loot distrubution was different :/
    Loot distribution is fine. Stops any ninja-looting that may occur. People would be far more pissed if it was ML/need + greed systems in place. The loot system is probably the best compromise of all the decisions they had.

  9. #1709
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    Loot distribution is fine. Stops any ninja-looting that may occur. People would be far more pissed if it was ML/need + greed systems in place. The loot system is probably the best compromise of all the decisions they had.
    for pugs yes I agree, but for guilds wanting to gear up certain members it does kinda sucks, I wish there was a switch to change it if you like.

  10. #1710
    Quote Originally Posted by nemro82 View Post
    for pugs yes I agree, but for guilds wanting to gear up certain members it does kinda sucks, I wish there was a switch to change it if you like.
    Not sure about Blizzard's technology. Maybe it can be ML always on until a player is invited from a) a different guild or b) cross realm? How many items would it drop though? That's another thing. 10 man drops 2 items, 25 drops 6 items. 15 man would only be able to drop 3-4 items, 20 man 4-5 items etc. Confusing.

  11. #1711
    Imo there are only 3 main thoughts involved with the idea of raiding.

    A) To see content.
    B) To be competitive.

    and most importantly:
    C) To be social.

    Flex mode obviously only affects the last one. LFD and LFR destroyed the community and now they want to counter it by incentivizing PUGs. The first step was heroic scenarios and now flex mode.

    Personally I'd hope that LFR and flex will share a lockout (loot lockout obviously). All the normal/heroic raiders would then do flex with friends and you could run an actual zero tolerance policy against afkers and jerks. And finally LFR would have appropriate difficulty balancing (if you don't do the mechanics = wipe!).

    One can only dream.

  12. #1712
    Elemental Lord Arbs's Avatar
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    I feel Flex will become the Pre raid everyone wanted & not LFR. With Flex I have more of a reason to continue to refuse to do LFR unless I'm in a somewhat premade group that I know can carry the group if needed, Weither its with mains or alts. I like the idea of it and if done right it can be a success, but also there are many factors that have to been put into place & many people have already suggested them no reason for me to repeat them.

    But what I am hoping for is that now with Flex Diff that Normal & Herioc will no longer get nerfed & will continue to be difficult in 10 /25 man respectively as they are in Throne of Thunder. At this point we now know 10 / 25 more than likely wont get the shared lockout removed, but the main issue about 25 mans still exists, Basically they need to hit the button and just make it more in-sentive to run 25 Man over 10 Man, giving more gear isn't the right way. My suggestion is making 25 man more difficult high iLevel like in Wrath. We will have to see how this all pans out in the end.
    I'm neither Pro or Anti Flying, I just have a different opinion on the matter.

  13. #1713
    Stood in the Fire Drudatz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeedmySpeed View Post
    Because really I don't see how players get through even Normals without a meter addon.
    Hint for you: people did mc back in the days even without recount...

  14. #1714
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    Not sure about Blizzard's technology. Maybe it can be ML always on until a player is invited from a) a different guild or b) cross realm? How many items would it drop though? That's another thing. 10 man drops 2 items, 25 drops 6 items. 15 man would only be able to drop 3-4 items, 20 man 4-5 items etc. Confusing.
    I guess making 0.2% chance per player?

    13 players would drop 2 loots with 60% chance of another one.

    Though I see nothing wrong with it using a LFR looting system, even though it is kinda boring.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  15. #1715
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    I guess making 0.2% chance per player?

    13 players would drop 2 loots with 60% chance of another one.

    Though I see nothing wrong with it using a LFR looting system, even though it is kinda boring.
    Seeing loot drop is exciting but also infuriating:

    "OMG heroic Horridon's Last Gasp dropped!!"
    "oh shit it's thunderforged, gg going for max dkp"
    "i want to kill myself"

  16. #1716
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    Seeing loot drop is exciting but also infuriating:

    "OMG heroic Horridon's Last Gasp dropped!!"
    "oh shit it's thunderforged, gg going for max dkp"
    "i want to kill myself"
    I agree, but that doesnt make it negative
    Makes the feeling of finally getting it that much better!
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  17. #1717
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    Seeing loot drop is exciting but also infuriating:

    "OMG heroic Horridon's Last Gasp dropped!!"
    "oh shit it's thunderforged, gg going for max dkp"
    "i want to kill myself"
    Much better than:
    - Rolling a 'downgrade' that someone in the raid could have used.
    - Rolling the same item for the X time that again at least someone else could have used.

    Normal loot systems spread the gear out semi sensibly. The LFR system spreads it out randomly. That is obviously worse for your raid.

  18. #1718
    Quote Originally Posted by gend View Post
    Much better than:
    - Rolling a 'downgrade' that someone in the raid could have used.
    - Rolling the same item for the X time that again at least someone else could have used.
    Happens with ML loot systems too. 5th week of Ra-den dropping plate tanking loot when we only use 1 plate tank. Wasted loot will always exist.

  19. #1719
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    Seeing loot drop is exciting but also infuriating:

    "OMG heroic Horridon's Last Gasp dropped!!"
    "oh shit it's thunderforged, gg going for max dkp"
    "i want to kill myself"
    It has to be personal loot otherwise you'd have a repeat of the Week 1 Dragon Soul LFR situation, where top guilds bring 3 mains and 7 alts and funnel all the gear to the 3 mains. You can bet there will be some overpowered weapons / trinkets / set bonuses where even with vastly lower ilvl will still be an upgrade.

    It also stops all the loot drama with PUGs because with personal loot, you can't blame the other players, you can only blame the system.

  20. #1720
    High Overlord
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    I think one of the great benefits of this could be sort of like a 'training ground' for normal fights for guilds who can't quite seem to get past that one mechanic...

    Struggling on how to handle adds on Horridon? Let's drop down to flex mode, and try to keep the conditions the same as possible (same raid size, same mechanics to deal with, etc.) and try to see if you can switch targets appropriately...

    Having issues with the Maze/life drain/colorblind phase on Durumu? Same thing...

    At least that's how I see OUR guild using this feature most. We're making okay progress in normals, but it's taken us awhile and we've encountered the normal roadblocks like everyone else.

    Or, it'd be a great place to try out a crazy strat and see if you can incorporate it to normal mode
    I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

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