It's fine the way it is, having a 4th mode is silly, why not add 10 modes then?
10m easier then 25m, drops lower ilvl loot.
Nerf normal modes (Like Dragonsoul)
Gradually increasing debuff that nerfs the raid over time (like Dragonsoul)
An "Easy" difficulty that is harder then LFR, but easier then Normal.
It's fine the way it is, having a 4th mode is silly, why not add 10 modes then?
^QFT
The Kara farmers of yesteryear are now whining that they are getting what they wanted. Seriously can't imagine how MSV/HoF can be hard now if you even just have 502 gear from LFR. Go back and farm the old nerfed raids, even on Heroic they will be easier to learn/get gear from than current raids. Normal IS the easy mode you're free to progress through with any organisation or skill level beyond "none". Yeah you might not clear it until near the end of the tier (bear in mind you have all of next patch to do it in as well) but hey, that's part of the fun. You have a perfectly fun and interesting raid to progress through for 6 months and you think it's a bad deal because you can't instantly stomp it when you have no gear, skill or organisation? That is what LFR is for. Normal modes are for a step up from that and heroic raids are basically the proper content that you can eventually work up to. Not everyone's going to down every heroic boss. That might mean you. I know I won't, I just mainly PVP. I go into Normal for herps and derps and still kill several bosses in a total pug without any real trouble. If you can't even do that then I'm sorry but you're just being bad. Leave the system as it is.
Paladin Bash has spoken.
Add heroics so ppl can gear up without LFR and it's RNG.
Keep normal and heroic like it is, maybe lower the aoe dmg in 10m allitle.
i'm atm at 9/12 normal and appart from some fights the progression is going well.
tho the kinda made some fights just fing walls... council and mageara are hard untill ppl get gear or learn the fight perfectly
and drumu and his damm maze that doesn't show properly untill you set your settings on low...
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/4...4841599821.jpg the boy that will forever be named the HHD wiper. R.I.P
If you have a combination of LFR and VP gear and have a hard time in normal mode ToT, it's not the gear that's the problem and a 4th mode won't solve the issues.
I think that gap, if there is any, should stay the way it is. There is no path between "I don´t give a crap about encounter-mechanics but I want epics" and "I want epics and I´m willing to put some afford into it".
You know when they first added heroics in bc, they added up the ability for there to be up to 10 version of the same npc, they use 6 of those versions in MoP now, i'm pretty sure they will be happy to fill up the other slots your irony is funny because without any clue you actually touched pm a real number? Why not is a great question, the answer is simply time and resources, many games have very easy, easy, normal, hard, very hard, insane and all degrees of difficulty so um having a 4th option is barely CRAZZZZZZZEEE
What world are you living in, its funny people think by saying that normal is easy it means they are great players, I've got new for you and everyone out there, the really good players, are the ones that can see how much of the step up in difficulty this tiers normal mode was to the previous, hell i still class it as normal and easy, but i'm smart enough to see the difficulty improvement.
Sure you can, you are also completely ignoring the fact that you don't have to learn and of the mechanics because its a "alt" group, so you can simply sit there and focus on learning how to play your horribly geared alts.
Edit:
Why would you think a 4th mode wouldn't solve the issue, so you are saying there problem is mechanics are to much to handle, pretty sure they solve that with a 4th mode more time to react, few overlapping abilities.
Last edited by Hexz; 2013-05-16 at 11:37 PM.
A lot of people just plain aren't getting it, or don't understand what they mean by "the gap".
ICC was probably the height of organized raid participation. The main enemy of organized raiding is scheduling/commitment, which is what LFR was intended to address. LFR however created a new problem, in that it sort of became. the death of organized raid pugging.
Fast forward to today, raid pugging is difficult because 10N is indeed "too hard", or at least in the sense that it is too much of a departure (in terms of overall difficulty and difference in encounter mechanics) from LFR, from which is the pool of players that an organized pug would likely draw from.
LFR teaches you nothing and is a terrible way to introduce players into raiding because other then Durumu's lazer you don't need to do anything. Most mechanics only 1-3 people need to do, the rest of the time you can afk in a Megaera fire pool and dps the blue head and wonder why it's never dying.
It doesn't matter if it's true or not. They believe there is and intend on doing something about it. That's really all that matters.
And yes there is a gap, LFR isn't remotely challenging at all and a lot of the mechanics that make the fight are guttered or removed completely.
And I do realize t14 exists but try finding players who want to do it still while LFR ToT drops 502 gear which is superior and easier to get then t14 :P
Problem is many people don't want to get better, they rather quit. Blizzard doesn't want them to quit and they know those people would play the game (even completely different) if they were to change difficulty. There are almost none guilds left that are stuck. Most already quit with t14 and now with t15 numbers decreased even more. Number of pugs falls at the same rate.
That's the base of blizzards shoutout.
It's not about quality content it's about "content for a certain mindset". It's kinda like Dota in Wc3 or generally funmaps back in days. Many people don't play ladder, they don't want to get better yet they enjoy playing a part of the game in their own way (or they play mass random team...). Blizzard thinks WoW once had it and lost it. Now they want to get it back. This part is what people did in DS, Karazhan, 10m WotlK, UBRS etc.
The question asked how WE would like it handled. My answer is that I see no gap, and see no reason to "fix" anything. You can get almost everything from VP and SPA rep, +Nalak and Oon loot. There's nothing to bridge. If you can't progress as it is now, you need to really go over your raid team/strategies with a fine toothed comb.
Which is great but blizzard already stated they intend on doing something, so as much as you want them to "do nothing" they will be doing something. I personally want LFR to be completely changed, increase it's difficulty and remove the ability to que for it so you need to form a raid to join it but they will never do it so why waste my breath. They intend on doing something for the "beer raiders".
And I can't see how anyone can't see a gap between the two ... LFR literally has almost no mechanics and the few that do exist 1-2 people can do while the rest can stand in everything without fear of getting killed. The raid damage you can probably 3 heal and the DPS requirements are so low I've never seen an enrage timer even with half the raid dead and many doing 20-30kdps. I didn't find normals all that hard but I can clearly see a gap.
Last edited by Raone; 2013-05-17 at 12:03 AM.
Honestly. I would rather they make 10 mans easier and drop loot 3-6 item levels lower. Perhaps it could work even if 10 mans were like 25% easier then 25 mans, and had 0% chance to drop thunderforged items. 25 mans have like a 25% chance for an item to be thunderforged which would increase the items level by 6-9 points. I think that would be enough honestly, and for god sake give 25 man and 10 man separate achievements and progression. They should be different races completely. I dont think its a good idea to go back to wrath style non shared lockouts though. People complain about MoP being to grindy. Can you imagine the QQ.
While I think 502 gear is certainly decent, I otherwise agree with everything you say.
I just don't get the 'remove loot' mentality of some people: its inferior in every way to even normal mode drops and pretty much crushed by Thunderforged/heroic. I guess its the age old mentality of being an idiot who wants to be able to parade their gear under the noses of the 'lessers'.
The only players whose gear I care about are the players I raid with. Otherwise? I could not care any less. Run LFR and get 5 bags of 502 gear for all I care. Your account = your business. Those of you sitting around mad and red in the face, over the pretend gear of the pretend characters that complete strangers play, need to grow up. Badly.
And to the stupid 'lolfaceroll' comments, there have been some brutally hard LFR fights. You can't go through Lei Shen, Durumu, Garalon, and several others by 'facerolling'. Lei Shen is, IMO, harder in LFR than some normal mode bosses. Which I think is good personally.
blizzard has said atleast 3 times this xpac that lfr is the catch up mecanic for those that started late in the xpac so that wont happen. also if blizzard did make lfr/normal/hc share a lock out you would never clear a section also queues would be atleast treble what they are atm.
---------- Post added 2013-05-17 at 01:27 AM ----------
blizzard also said atleast 2 times that lfr is there to get you gear that just wont drop on normal
Last edited by thunderdragon2; 2013-05-17 at 12:32 AM.
While I voted "10M easier than 25M with lower iLevel" I think all the ideas in the poll are pretty bad. If you ask me there are two legitimate ways to handle it:
1) In the future, normal mode should be toned down a bit (more forgiving, less perfect execution mechanics), roughly around the difficulty of normal Dragon Soul without the nerfs, or Firelands/T11 with the nerfs (I can't remember the exact numbers but I think Firelands was 20% and T11 was 10%? In any event I found them both, Firelands especially, to be much more manageable with the nerfs than without)
2) Keep normal mode as it is, but Blizzard should stagger the difficulty of bosses so the first few have simpler mechanics (maybe just one real mechanic to watch out for, or a simple add fight, or a tank and spank DPS check, you get the picture) and then the difficulty ramps up the further you get towards the end, with easy "filler" bosses thrown in periodically so it's not all an upward curve.
1 will appease the regular people and piss off the hardcore people (personally though I don't care about them, but not going into that here). 2 I think can appease everyone:
Average/casual/scrub guilds can down a couple of bosses and get them on farm status while bashing their heads against the harder bosses, but won't have their morale just demolished wiping on the first or second boss of the raid and feeling like they're getting nowhere. Good raiders have less time spent on the easier bosses but still have the challenging later bosses, and easier farm bosses means it's easier to gear for the later ones. Elite raiders won't experience a difference since they usually blow through all the normal modes in short order anyways.
Last edited by Nobleshield; 2013-05-17 at 12:33 AM.
increase the difficulty of LFR up to be about the same to normal as normal is to heroic